Episode 23

Why chasing work life balance is a bad idea (and what you can do instead) with Claire Elmes

Published on: 14th December, 2023

"Why chasing work life balance is a bad idea and what you can do instead". Claire and I discuss this tricky topic and aim to provide ways for you to find more harmony.

- Defining work-life balance is hard. It can mean making time for work and non-work activities you enjoy in a way that works for you. It's an individual thing.

- We have cognitive biases like status quo bias where we continue doing things as we have done. Becoming aware of this is the first step to changing unhelpful patterns.

- "Balance" suggests 50/50 which may not be realistic or even desirable for some. Think beyond hours to where your attention and energy goes. Integrate life as a whole.

- Over-identifying with a work identity can harm work-life wellbeing and balance. Bring more awareness to your whole self.

- Environment design is powerful. What visual cues trigger certain habits around work and personal life? Set up spaces thoughtfully.

- Manage your attention actively. Multitasking often backfires for presence, focus and productivity. Practice being fully present.

- Reflect on what really matters through questions. What life choices serve my values? Make decisions deliberately.

- Start from within yourself - care for your physiology, emotions and mind. This builds a base for choices.

- There's no quick fix, but small consistent lifestyle choices compound over months and years.

- Choose one thing you'll do differently after listening to start applying this to your life. Then build from there.

Contact Claire here

Get in touch with Sal

If this episode has caught your attention and you wish to learn more, then please contact me. I offer a free 20 min call where we can discuss a challenge your facing and how I may be able to help you.

Transcript
Sal Jefferies:

Welcome to Mindset, Mood and Movement, a systemic approach to human

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behavior, performance, and well being.

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Our psychological, emotional, and

physical health are all connected,

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and my guests and I endeavor to share

knowledge, strategies, and tools for

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you to enrich your life and work.

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Today we are considering why

chasing work life balance is a bad

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idea and what you can do instead.

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I'm joined by Claire Elms, my guest, and

she is the owner of Inspire You Wellbeing.

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That's a global award winning therapy

training and coaching world business.

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Today, we are considering why

chasing work life balance is a bad

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idea and what you can do instead.

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I'm joined by my guest, Claire

Elms, and Claire is the founder

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of Inspire You Wellbeing.

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It's a global award winning therapy,

training and coaching wellness business.

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And Claire's a really

great guest to have on.

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She works with stress, performance,

lifestyle, executive coaching, the whole

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host of things that are really going

to be important to work life balance.

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And Claire knows full well just how

important this is, having experience.

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Burnout in 2015.

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So she's on a campaign to help people

now, as I too am on a campaign to help

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people understand things through this

podcast about how we can integrate

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our mind, our emotions and our body

to make changes on a practical level.

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Now, when considering work life balance in

this episode, we go into some key things.

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What do we mean by work life balance

and help you understand that?

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What are some of the factors that

are going to get in your way?

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Some of the cognitive biases, some

of the personality styles, some of

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the behaviors that may be going on

for you, which you just hadn't seen.

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And we're going to pull those out

and hopefully help you understand

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it in a much clearer context.

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how to use attention, what's happening

with your environment, things such as

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your smartphone, all of these things

that contribute to whether work life

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balance is going for you or against you.

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And we kind of pull it all together with

some really salient strong points of

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actions you can take to start finding

your own way into work life balance.

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So welcome, Claire.

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Hi.

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Claire Elms: thanks for having me.

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Sal Jefferies: I'd love to start with

what does work life balance mean to you?

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Claire Elms: I think it's one

of those concepts, isn't it?

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That's really hard to talk

about and really hard to define.

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But for me, work life balance

is about making sure I have time

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to do my work, but time to do.

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The things that I enjoy in life as well.

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So spending time with family and

friends, doing things for myself

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and as well as integrating work

within that and how it works for me.

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So for me, work isn't a nine to five.

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so it's how I make my working

day work for me in a way that

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gives me time to have life as

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Sal Jefferies: Really nice.

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Yeah.

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I guess maybe I should bounce

the question back to myself.

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Work life balance.

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Yeah.

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What work life balance?

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Claire Elms: Yeah, absolutely.

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Sal Jefferies: I see it

slightly differently.

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I don't actually see it as work life

balance with a distinction as such.

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I see it all as life.

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So if I, I, I see things in a slightly

different perspective, it's just how

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I see the world, but I see things

as life, this totality of life that

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I have the gift of being given.

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And within that, some of my

energy and my time goes to.

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and there's different nuances of

my work as well from podcasting to

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coaching to, the running the business

and they're, they have different

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qualities, but there's that aspect.

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And then there's other

elements in my life.

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As you've alluded to, this personal.

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For me it's fitness is health,

activities, all these kinds of things.

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And I find it more as a whole system

that I try to get the right measure of.

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But of course, this is what we

want to share today is about.

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Understanding this, I think from

not just my perspective and Pat's

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Claire's perspective, but really help

you find what your perspective is.

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So we, we're clear on it.

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I have clients in my coaching practice and

they come to me and they're super busy.

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They, they're either directors or run a

business or freelance, and they work hard.

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They put a lot of hours in there,

they're, they're grafting and that's fine.

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That's okay.

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If that's your thing.

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But if there's no time and energy left

for health, for fitness, for family,

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then it, of course, can skew into the

other side of, of course, unbalance

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or being pushed into overworking,

and too much attention there.

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When and where did you start

working in your domain, Claire,

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with Work Life Balance with

the clients that you work with?

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Perhaps you can share a

little more about that story.

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So we understand your, your,

your, your journey in this.

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Claire Elms: Yeah, sure.

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So I've come from, a

therapeutic background.

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So I started.

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Practicing with clients as a

therapist in:

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like a long time ago now.

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but, yeah, and I was working in the NHS

and I was working, in the county council,

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doing stuff with the council with children

and families predominantly at the time.

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and then I was looking for how to

get what I wanted because I couldn't

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see a job that suited what I wanted.

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So I ended up.

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setting up self employed, a friend,

a life coach, actually, she, she

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was quite inspirational to me.

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She said, if you can't find the

job you want, why not create it?

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And it was enough to plant a seed for me.

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So I started going, okay, let's do that.

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And so I added, started the

business in:

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slowly, slowly added days and.

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Reduced time in, employment and I think

for me, a lot of clients come to me

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around feeling stressed, overworked,

burnt out, and, I've seen the back end,

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I guess I've seen like where people

get to when they get to the point of

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no return, if you like, I've also, hit

it myself a little bit in:

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working 60 hours a week, I thought it

was invincible, and then I really wasn't,

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and, had I not got married and had three

weeks off on honeymoon, I would have,

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definitely been in a very dark place,

but, as it was, I had enough time to

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step back and reflect, and go, actually,

I don't want to do this anymore, and

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I think it's really interesting, I

see so many similar patterns, and so

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subsequently, since 2015, I've been

much more, focusing on the preventative

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rather than working with severe and

enduring, which was what I was doing.

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So I was working with really quiet and

stuff in, in the NHS and, yeah, and so

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pivoted more into coaching at that point

and started focusing more on how to stop

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people getting to that point in the first

place and using my experience as a bit

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of a, as, as a guide really, because

I would never have gone to get help.

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I didn't see I had a problem.

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Like I just didn't recognize

that that was a thing.

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and I think since COVID, there's been a

massive shift for people, I think people

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have started to really recognize, that

actually they don't want to do certain

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things the way that they've been doing

them, and I think we we all carry on

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doing what we're doing because that's

what we've always done, and actually,

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at some point, we can't carry on, so I

think it's really important to, focus on

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this kind of elusive work life balance.

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thing because it's a concept and

it's made up and it doesn't and

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it's different for everybody.

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but actually it's a thing and if we get

it working in a, in a way that works for

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us personally and, and how my work life

balance will, it will be different to how

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your work life balance looks, which will

be different to how someone else's looks.

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And, like the word balance is,

is always, like we've both talked

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about integration, haven't we?

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And whether There is a balance at all

or whether you feel like you have to

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balance something because when you're

balancing you feel like you're juggling

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something and then it feels like it's

always going to be out of kilter.

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So it's quite interesting.

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the more I delve into working with

people on a preventative level

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and we start to look at like your

week looks like and where your

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energy is placed and how you focus.

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it's just a really interesting way

of working now and I really enjoy

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helping people to, make it work

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Sal Jefferies: Nice, really nice.

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I just want to speak to a couple

of things that you said that

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really caught my attention.

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The first one is, is we, we do what we do.

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We just carry on as we are.

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And this is such a, such

a slippery customer.

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you probably know, but, if, if,

if we're listening and you're

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not sure, we all have cognitive

biases, which are thinking biases.

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We think in certain ways and

we're predisposed to certain ones.

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A really big one is status quo bias.

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Now it's, yeah, it's status quo and

I don't mean the, the rock group.

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If anyone remembers them.

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. But status quo as in staying the same.

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Now we are, our mind

is a bit like our body.

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It's seeking homeostasis.

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We like to remain the same.

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And there's, there's lots of

science around this about how

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the brain works and so forth.

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From a practical point of view,

knowing that we have status quo bias

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is that we will always lean into

what we know and what we've done.

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The problem with that can be if what

we've been doing and what we've always

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done is overworking, under prioritizing

family or under prioritizing fitness

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and health, then it will continue.

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And it's not because anyone's

doing anything wrong, it's probably

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because we're simply not conscious

of these patterns playing.

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And the first thing around status quo

bias is, is to simply name it and see it.

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But see if you're like, okay, I've

always, I don't know, work a 12 hour

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day, don't bother eating properly,

don't work out, then It's naming that

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and okay, how is this going to work

in looking around you for some other

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people and getting examples of that.

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So knowing that we are predisposed

to it is the first point of changing

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it and that that really intrigues me.

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Now, you also mentioned about balance

and I'm always fascinated with

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linguistics and balance to me would

seem 50 50 or 50 50 be perfect, right?

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And.

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I don't know if we, if we got this

idea in our mind about, we have to have

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balance, then implicit in that, if your

work week is 60 hours and your home life

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is less, you're already out of balance,

just from an hour's point of view, you're

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already out of balance, so you're already

losing, which is a negative, and I, I

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struggle with the word balance, if it's

misunderstood, certainly in my mind,

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and for people I work with, we actually

probably need to understand it better.

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And it's not an either or situation.

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I like, I'm only working.

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I'm only at home because sometimes

when you go to work, you're,

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you'll bring your nervous system.

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You'll bring your backstory.

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You'll bring your biases, who you are.

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You can't not, right?

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And same as when you go home, you

might, certainly for those of us who

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run businesses, do our own thing, We

often have insights whilst walking

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the dog, in the shower, and it's not

wrong, but it's understanding this

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and starting to see it for what it is.

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And the last thing I really want to speak

to you about what you said, and we want

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to, I'd like to go deeper, is energy.

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Now, I work with energy a lot, from a

quantum physics description to a body

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energy description, whatever term it

is, but this is, our entire body has an

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electron, every cell has an electrical

signal and the nervous system runs

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electrics, we all have energy, and I

think it's something more interesting to

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talk to, and I want to get your thoughts

on this, Graham, that would be awesome.

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Instead of balance, like

where is your energy?

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how much energy does work take?

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Because some people's work doesn't

take a lot because it's flow state.

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Some people's home life can be

challenging and that can take a lot more.

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Perhaps if you've got young children

or something like that, it's demanding.

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Claire, how are you working

with, with this energy, perhaps

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principle around the clients you're

working with, with work life?

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Claire Elms: I think similar to you.

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I think it's really interesting.

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I was talking to someone the

other day actually in, in the

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NHS, it's very segregated.

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So you have your mental health teams,

physical health teams, you have your

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different teams for different conditions.

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And so if you have a

condition that needs support.

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You'll go to so and so for this, and

so and so for that, and this team for

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that, and this team for that, and it's,

it's very segregated, and what I have

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loved about fully leaning into my own

business is that I bring the energy, I

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bring the physical and the mental and

everything else together, because for

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me, you cannot operate on one without the

other, you need to have an understanding

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of Tiredness levels, you need to have an

understanding of where your focus goes.

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there's that whole, my, one of my

favorite sayings is like, focus,

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focus goes where energy flows.

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So if your focus is in the right

place, then your energy goes in the

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right place and it becomes like a

flow state and it becomes, there's all

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the science behind it, isn't there?

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And, and it's, it's really

interesting and I think.

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When the more I kind of work with physical

practitioners and the more I work, doing

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more integrated practice myself, I've,

I trained as a breathwork facilitator

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last year and that for me really, really

opened my eyes to, breathing in a basic

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term, understanding that when we're

not breathing properly, that actually

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impacts on absolutely everything, like

our mental and our physical state.

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And.

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the more I'm working with different

practitioners, I'm really leaning

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into, understanding my own body.

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I have hypermobility, and so my

body doesn't do what it should do.

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so really understanding, I've

just accepted that for years.

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And then I've worked, I found

a practitioner who's gone from,

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yeah, you can change that.

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And I'm like, oh, I've just

accepted that for so long.

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So it's really interesting.

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the more you lean into different

things and become aware of things

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yourself, Just the kind of energy

really interests me, and, and it can

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be seen as a bit woo woo, I think,

and, and I never quite fully understood

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it when I worked in organisations.

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It's only been probably the last five

years I've really leaned into it.

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Sal Jefferies: Yeah, I agree.

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I know some people still struggle with

the term energy, perhaps don't understand

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it, but let's just clear this up now.

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It's neuroscience, right?

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We got data on this all over the place.

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This is neuroscience.

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This is neuropsychobiology.

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This is the electrome understanding

about how the body works.

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This is quantum mechanics.

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Yeah, there's all sorts of

heavyweight sciences, which

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now we understand this stuff.

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And to put it simply, metabolism

is energy exchange, right?

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So if you eat a bowl of porridge and

some nuts in the morning, That is trans,

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transduced into energy in your body.

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It's broken down to different things.

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And if you didn't eat any food

at all, you'd be knackered.

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You'd be tired.

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Now, so we know this.

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So we want to just disband with any

of this idea that energy is woo woo.

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It, this, this, this is exactly

where we need to work out.

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The problem I have, and, I'm a big fan

of Oliver Berkman, 4, 000 Weeks, if I

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should put a link in the show, brilliant.

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And cause he's a time management guy

and he's written some amazing book and.

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Where we think about time, we might

look at our working day and go, I've

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got eight hours, and we go, I go home,

we've got four hours with family, or

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I've got, for me, it's like hours in the

gym or something like that, but hours

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don't translate very well to energy,

because if, for instance, so my work

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is, is, I'm not interested in hours,

I'm interested in energy time, and I,

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there's a time boundary, of course,

I know The the shape of it, but how

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much energy do I need for a podcast?

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How much energy do I need to

do coaching work to really

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help people get what they want?

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That's less about the amount

of hours I need to do.

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It's more about the amount of

energy I need to bring to him.

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And the same with home life.

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if you go home and you are at home, quote.

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but your mind is still at your desk or

your mind is still with your client.

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You're not there, right?

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So your balance is not there.

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I wanted to again, just to speak

to something you said there, for my

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regular listeners, people know that

my approach of mindset, mood, and

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movement, this ecosystem approach of.

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Wellbeing and personal

development is, is how I work.

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And you can't not be yourself.

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Even if you're in a professional role.

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You have your body, the

architecture, you have your nervous

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system, your digestive system.

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It is all there.

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And if your breath patterns are all

over the place, as you've alluded to, if

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your emotions are dysregulated, 'cause

that's connected to breath and sometimes

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to trauma, then it's very, very hard to

achieve one's elusive work-life balance.

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If our physical.

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and our emotional system is out

of balance or out of cohesion.

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So that's a really important thing.

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And I want to go a little more

focused onto this as the individual.

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When we're thinking about energy

as an individual and we're looking

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to, to, to get balance, how are

you helping some of the people you

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work with actually achieve that?

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What, what are those practical steps that

you're finding are now working to, to

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get a better, a better way, let's say.

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Claire Elms: there's, there's some

amazing things out there, isn't there?

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And it's really hard to answer that

question because obviously it's different

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for the, for the individual, right?

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But, One of the things I love doing with

people is bringing that self awareness

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piece in, so Understanding yourself

and how you operate is so pivotal.

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Like how you make decisions.

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You talked about the

status quo bias, right?

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How you, how you think.

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Everything starts with the thought.

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I educate people on the thought,

feeling, behavior loop and how, when

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we have, like quite often people

come to me because they're stressed

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or they're anxious or whatever.

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There's a, there's a, there's a thing.

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They're not sleeping.

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There's, they're feeling a bit, Slap

or whatever it is, we can then work

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out, okay, where's that coming from?

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And this, this is in business

and in personal, right?

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Because you can't separate the two.

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So if you are a business owner

and you're working ridiculous

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hours, you're making decisions

every day based on your thoughts.

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So if your thoughts are skewed in

whatever capacity, then you're not

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able to make those good decisions.

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I talk a lot around that loop initially,

and also around, understanding your

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energy levels and how your body

works and, and that side of things.

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But you've also got like your

personality, like your sort of the

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way that your personality works

and how, like my personality is

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generally quite a fast paced person.

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So for me to step back and be slower,

that takes effort, that takes energy.

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whereas for someone that you sound

like you're much more of a slower

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person, so you don't need me to like,

I, I find sometimes I have to, adapt

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my energy levels to certain people.

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Like I, I know I'm a fast paced

person if I'm talking with

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someone that's not a fast paced.

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If I'm talking with someone that's

a fast paced person, we'll go

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off on all sorts of tangents and

have a brilliant conversation.

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If I'm talking with a slower paced person,

I have to really think and pull myself in.

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And notice the pathways that are

coming up in my head and going,

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Oh, do I want to do that pathway?

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Do I want to do that pathway?

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And be much more reflective.

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And that's something that

I've been working on a lot

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more recently because I know.

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the feedback from, from various

things is like, just slow down a bit.

349

:

And I'm like, I know,

I know I can't help it.

350

:

I get, I get excited and I get

like passionate about things.

351

:

And so I go off on tangents.

352

:

I'm already doing that now.

353

:

but for me, one of the things I really

doing is, is really picking that

354

:

personal part almost, you're going, Okay.

355

:

So this is, this is you as

a person, as a personality.

356

:

But that doesn't shape who you are fully,

so then you've got your values that

357

:

you bring, so what's important to you,

so for me, health, health is one of my

358

:

main values, so being healthy, I would

prioritise going and doing something

359

:

for myself over other things, because

for me that's really important, if I'm,

360

:

if I'm going and doing work before I

even start working, I will make sure

361

:

I have time to, go to the gym, or go

and do, I don't do the gym much anymore

362

:

to be fair, it's like more of fittest

bootcamps and runs and stuff like that

363

:

but, or do yoga or something like that.

364

:

I find that I need to do something.

365

:

Like, when I look up my energy I need

to do something before I start work.

366

:

I drop the kids off,

it's all a bit hectic.

367

:

My kids are young, they're full on.

368

:

mornings can be quite

stressful and hectic.

369

:

I need time in between that and

starting work to fully get into work

370

:

and into my flow state and if I'm not...

371

:

If I, if I bounce straight to

a nine o'clock meeting, I'm not

372

:

fully present because I haven't

had the time to decompress.

373

:

And, we talk about mental loads a lot.

374

:

I work a lot with busy mums.

375

:

Busy mums that have about 20 different

things they're doing at the same time.

376

:

and it's really interesting, isn't it?

377

:

The culture side of things.

378

:

Like when we...

379

:

yeah, 20 years ago, moms didn't

necessarily go to work as such.

380

:

It was much more like moms

did the household stuff.

381

:

And then the, the, the dad went

to work and the money, blah,

382

:

blah, blah, very stereotypical.

383

:

but now as women, we're like, yes,

we're going to go and do those things.

384

:

Brilliant.

385

:

gives us passion, purpose, excitement,

all of that really positive stuff.

386

:

But then also you're still having to do

a lot of the mental load at home as well.

387

:

And then you're also having to do like

life admin and Quite often people then

388

:

don't look after themselves and I think,

the thing that we were talking about

389

:

before was in itself was about a kind

of importance of well being and looking

390

:

after ourselves, being aware of ourselves

and where we're at and where we want

391

:

to spend more of our time focusing, and

then, and then leaning into that and,

392

:

and creating clear actions on how we're

going to get there, because if we know

393

:

that maybe we're not eating right because

we're grabbing food on the go or we're

394

:

not sleeping enough because we're going

to bed at midnight and, Waking up at three

395

:

o'clock in the morning, working and stuff.

396

:

There's, there's things

that we can do to change it.

397

:

We don't have to just

settle for the status quo.

398

:

And I think that's really important.

399

:

because quite often we just

do what we've always done.

400

:

so it's just, and it's, and

it's our bodies and our minds

401

:

way of, of functioning, right?

402

:

We don't think about getting

dressed in the morning.

403

:

We probably put the same

clothes on in the same order

404

:

because it's our brain's way of.

405

:

Not thinking as much and, and doing

things on autopilot and we have

406

:

certain things that we do on autopilot,

but we can change those things.

407

:

Those habits are not the

way that it has to be.

408

:

And I think that's, that's to

me is like how to help people

409

:

really don't lean into themselves.

410

:

and ultimately that improves

performance, productivity.

411

:

It improves absolutely everything,

412

:

Sal Jefferies: Totally agree.

413

:

Totally agree.

414

:

And it's something I see with the people I

coach and work with in various capacities.

415

:

the one of the first questions if

I'm working with someone who wants

416

:

to overcome an anxiety pattern, a

block, most people don't come to

417

:

coach him because it's all going well.

418

:

This is normally something that's

either got blocked or stuck or they

419

:

can't figure out a transition or

there's some deep self work to do.

420

:

And one of the first questions

I need to know is like, how

421

:

is this person physically?

422

:

Because if you are not sleeping, That

fundamentally changes everything from

423

:

your biochemistry to your psychology.

424

:

If someone is not getting outdoors

quite early in the morning, I know

425

:

that the light's not coming in that

person's retina, switching on their,

426

:

their, which is the only part of the

brain that's external in the eye.

427

:

that doesn't switch on then the

cortisol pulse, which everything is

428

:

about circadian rhythms in our body.

429

:

Circadian rhythms, if they are out

of whack, Everything's out of whack.

430

:

One of the simplest fixes is to be

outdoors within ideally 30 minutes,

431

:

but an hour as soon as you wake up.

432

:

Light in your eyes, not looking at

the sun, but light in your eyes.

433

:

So we've got the most basic, wrong

word, fundamental human requirements.

434

:

We've got sleep, we have awake, we

have the circadian rhythms running,

435

:

all the biochemistry is running.

436

:

And now we can go do a good day.

437

:

For me.

438

:

My day is always blocked out, right?

439

:

No one's available.

440

:

I'm not available to a certain time.

441

:

Like my first thing in

the morning is exercise.

442

:

I run, I swim, I gym, I

train, I do loads of stuff.

443

:

And for wholerseries, firstly,

I prefer it in the morning.

444

:

I can't, I can't do it after work.

445

:

It just doesn't work.

446

:

But also it's about, it works for me.

447

:

So it's about someone else.

448

:

It might look like that.

449

:

That pattern is afterward.

450

:

That's okay.

451

:

But if you get the

fundamentals in place, sleep.

452

:

Nutrition, Daylight, and the

right amount of good, decent food.

453

:

Then you're already building the

base, which, which intrigues me.

454

:

Now you've mentioned something

here and that really caught my

455

:

attention about personality.

456

:

Now, I know, I was working with someone

a little while back and he was, super

457

:

successful, very, very busy, and he was

so identified with his role at work.

458

:

And it was it was everything

that's so consuming as it

459

:

can be as a business owner.

460

:

This over identification was part

of the problem because, if you're on

461

:

the hedonic treadmill, that's this

idea that we're, we'll be happy when.

462

:

And if you're north of, I don't

know, 35 and you still think, I'll be

463

:

happy when something's not working.

464

:

It's just not working because if

you can't be happy now, you're

465

:

not gonna be happy in 10 years.

466

:

A few more quid in the bank

is not going to change it.

467

:

So this is really just about what

you said about personality and I

468

:

call it identity, similar stuff.

469

:

Over identification,

470

:

absolutely, over identification with,

with, let's say your business identity.

471

:

IC is part of the problem because

then it becomes there's no space for,

472

:

Claire or Sal to be the person, a

partner or friend or whatever that is.

473

:

that's one of the kind of red flags

I'm going to call out to people.

474

:

if you're over identified with work, and

you're chasing work life balance, this

475

:

is part of where we need to do some work.

476

:

This over identification,

because there's too much there.

477

:

What are you seeing when you're

working with people and you touch

478

:

on what I call identity, you call it

personality, how have you seen changes?

479

:

Have you got any examples of

something that you've worked with?

480

:

Claire Elms: Yeah.

481

:

So I think for me, like I see

identity, as a full, as your, as

482

:

your whole self almost, right?

483

:

And then the personality, past

experiences, I work a lot with trauma.

484

:

and when I say trauma, I'm not

talking about abuse and big things.

485

:

I'm talking about, your mum's

saying no when you're seven.

486

:

there there's, there's quite varying

levels, like big teacher traumas

487

:

and that teach traumas, right?

488

:

And they all have a massive impact.

489

:

and positive experiences as well.

490

:

I put a post out on LinkedIn this

week about, as 16 years ago I did a

491

:

free fall to do accelerated skydive.

492

:

And for me, that is one of

the best achievements that

493

:

I've ever had in my life.

494

:

I think it's, it's an

absolutely fantastic thing.

495

:

And if anyone's thinking about

it, they should definitely do it.

496

:

it's, it's, it relates so

much to the work that we do.

497

:

you pressure yourself out of

your comfort zone, comfort zone.

498

:

We talk about a lot, right?

499

:

but you you strive in for that process

that, that I have an adrenaline buzz.

500

:

I need, I need.

501

:

It's a challenge.

502

:

I need something to do, to, to fulfill.

503

:

And I really resonate

with, Johnny Wilkinson.

504

:

I don't know who knows Johnny Wilkinson.

505

:

He's a professional rugby player.

506

:

Showing my age, certain

people under a certain age.

507

:

It's quite funny.

508

:

I was talking in my team about him and

they didn't know who he was because

509

:

they are of a certain generation.

510

:

So I then started to feel quite old.

511

:

But, Johnny Wilkinson,

has openly come out.

512

:

And so has Tom Daley, quite a

few professional sports people.

513

:

It happens a lot in their world.

514

:

that kind of constant need to strive for

the, I'll be happy when I'll be happy

515

:

when, and then he was talking about when

they won the world cup, like what next?

516

:

that was what they were striving for.

517

:

And rather than feeling

happy and content and.

518

:

celebrating that, he just felt really

flat and, and, and unclear and he went

519

:

into a bit of an identity crisis and I

think, I, I see that happen and play out

520

:

in so many clients that I work with where

they're striving for something, striving

521

:

for something, striving for something.

522

:

Either it's unrealistic and

they're never going to get there.

523

:

or they get to it and then

they're like, what now?

524

:

And I think that's really, it really

resonates with me and that kind of really

525

:

being present in the moment, we, we

do lots of stuff around goal setting.

526

:

We do lots of stuff around looking

at the past and the barriers and

527

:

how to overcome the barriers.

528

:

But for me, like feeling pretty

content and happy in the is quite hard.

529

:

To get it, because, because of culture

and society and this constant need

530

:

to stride for something and, it's

about recognizing how far you've

531

:

come and I think that's, that's a lot

of the stuff I do around identity.

532

:

It's like how the personality,

the values, the experiences all

533

:

make up that person and then how.

534

:

That sort of helps you to make

decisions in your life and like how

535

:

it, how it frames your thoughts.

536

:

And I think when we start to look at the

sort of emotional intelligence, in a,

537

:

in an overall arching kind of concept,

like trying to work out what is important

538

:

to us from an emotional intelligence

perspective and how we can strive to

539

:

improve that really helps people improve.

540

:

Sal Jefferies: Yeah, it's

really really nice to hear.

541

:

Funny isn't it that we we don't see it.

542

:

There's there's There's, there's

the old, what do they call it?

543

:

A parable.

544

:

I'm not really good at doing this very

well, so I'll make up my own version.

545

:

But there's two fish, there are

two fish swimming along one day.

546

:

And this older fish swings,

swings by and goes, Morning guys!

547

:

The water's nice today.

548

:

And off he goes.

549

:

And the two young fish look at

each other and go, What's water?

550

:

Because of course,

551

:

they're so immersed in

water, they can't see it.

552

:

They have no other reference

point and culture really pushes

553

:

us for this work life balance.

554

:

And yet it also has a, almost a

contradictory message like just

555

:

drive harder, succeed more, get more

money, grow, scale, whatever it is.

556

:

It's push, push, push, push, push.

557

:

And.

558

:

Daring I think lies part of our work

life problem because we assume it's

559

:

a perhaps a future orientated thing

like if I just make enough money or my

560

:

business grows to a certain level then

I'll have the work life balance but

561

:

work life balance is actually a state

of mind on a day to day, week to week,

562

:

month to month basis and here's a funny

thing that we can wrap our heads around.

563

:

We already live in the future.

564

:

That's a fact.

565

:

We live in the future of

who you were five years ago.

566

:

Claire Elms: yeah

567

:

Sal Jefferies: it's really nice to go,

God, yeah, I remember being X, Y, Z, let's

568

:

say 30 or 40, whatever we are like, Oh,

when I was 45, I was going to do this.

569

:

And I like, yeah, you live in that future.

570

:

So if you were doing it back then

the, I'll be happy when whatever that

571

:

is, and you're not happy now because

you just need a few more money, a

572

:

few more pounds in the bank, or a bit

more scale in your business, then.

573

:

Your process of doing it needs looking

at, and then if we're striving for

574

:

work life balance and wondering why

we don't have it, it comes down to

575

:

perception and behavior connected,

which we've already said about finding

576

:

about people, which is, which is lovely.

577

:

Now, I want to call out one

of the red flags that really

578

:

get in the way of work life.

579

:

balance in a healthy way which is the

difference between how culture was

580

:

probably 25 years ago if you were, a

working parent, whatever you are, doing

581

:

your thing compared to now because

of and I'm waving a smartphone at

582

:

Claire and on this smartphone is my

telephone, my contacts and pictures,

583

:

and yet there's my email, whatsapp,

it's all the facility for me to be

584

:

still connected to my work identity or

my work process and I think we haven't

585

:

seen it but it's a little like leaving

all your home doors open and inviting

586

:

your colleagues just to walk in and out

all day all night and it's very hard to

587

:

beat because everyone has a smartphone.

588

:

and everyone's got all

the connections on it.

589

:

question being, when we come

home, whatever that is, or when

590

:

we're not at work, how tempting

is it to pick up Don's smartphone?

591

:

Very.

592

:

Yeah.

593

:

Claire Elms: This is really tough, right?

594

:

This is one of the biggest things I'm

talking about with individuals and teams.

595

:

I was doing some team coaching, not

that long ago and they disclosed

596

:

there was 46 WhatsApp groups for

that particular organization.

597

:

and I was like, wow,

598

:

um, and I think, WhatsApp is brilliant.

599

:

There was definitely a place for

smartphones is definitely, we had

600

:

a conversation and then someone

unsubscribed from all the groups.

601

:

And I was like, that's not, that's

not what I'm wanting, it's not about

602

:

doing that, but, there's, I, I.

603

:

and turned it back on and there was

150 messages and I was like, wow,

604

:

yeah, four different WhatsApp groups,

pinging, pinging, pinging about various

605

:

different things, not all work related.

606

:

a lot of it is mum groups.

607

:

Anyone with kids of a certain

age will understand the, the

608

:

kind of WhatsApp parent groups,

can be a bit full on as well.

609

:

but absolutely.

610

:

We talk a lot about switching off, right?

611

:

How do, how do we switch off?

612

:

Yeah.

613

:

Because if we don't switch, do

we have to switch on and off

614

:

is another conversation, right?

615

:

Do we have to switch on, now I'm

in work, off, now I'm off work.

616

:

but, you've talked about in previous

podcasts, the, the link between

617

:

the sympathetic nervous system and

the parasympathetic nervous system.

618

:

If we are on all the time,

we're not in rest and recovery.

619

:

We're not in that parasympathetic

nervous system at all.

620

:

and we've got a fantastic device

that we use for people, which

621

:

is brilliant, called FairSpeak.

622

:

and it measures high

variability oxygen levels.

623

:

It, it goes deep into

looking at your stress zones.

624

:

And I love it because it's actually

a bit of a slap in the face of look,

625

:

you're not as getting any recovery.

626

:

you drink caffeine in the

afternoon, you're not sleeping,

627

:

you sleep isn't good quality sleep.

628

:

and it shows that, if I go for an event

in the afternoon and I'm drinking coffee,

629

:

and for me, I've got tinnitus, so if I'm

at an event and there's lots of people,

630

:

my body's working really hard, I love

it, it lights me up, it gives me energy,

631

:

but my body's working really hard to,

to hear what people are saying, to be

632

:

fully present in the room and all of

those things, that when I go to bed, if

633

:

it's an afternoon event and I, I struggle

to go to bed, I have to do a breathwork

634

:

session or a yoga session or something,

because otherwise I don't get into a rest

635

:

and recovery until three in the morning.

636

:

and, and I have this awareness, right?

637

:

So I'm not going to not go to an afternoon

event because that's not real, right?

638

:

But it's, it's understanding.

639

:

I think for me, using some of the

technology now, it's really fantastic

640

:

because it allows us to look at the

impact it has, and the impact that it has.

641

:

You know, like I got, as a

business owner, I, I had all

642

:

of my phone stuff on one phone.

643

:

Last year, I got a new phone and

I was like, that's my work phone.

644

:

all the time I've been employed, I've

had a work phone and a home phone.

645

:

So that is now my work phone.

646

:

This is my home phone and it's made such

a difference because I don't check emails.

647

:

when I'm not working, I

don't, like I choose a time.

648

:

So if I, if I'm, if I want to check

emails, like I don't work on a Monday,

649

:

but I've had, some students working.

650

:

So they've been working Monday.

651

:

So I've had things available on

a Monday and it's been exhausting

652

:

because I've not had that rest day.

653

:

so when they finish, I've really

noticed a difference because I've

654

:

actually had Mondays to switch

off, which I didn't have before.

655

:

So just you can turn notifications

off on your phone, and that's what

656

:

a lot of people don't realize.

657

:

You can actually have

it set for a schedule.

658

:

So I set my emails for

8 till 7 or something.

659

:

And then they don't get

synced automatically.

660

:

They sync if you open it and scroll

it, but they don't get synced.

661

:

And I was trying that at the weekends

before I got a separate phone.

662

:

But for me, it, it was too

663

:

tempting.

664

:

It's too tempting to just squelch, right?

665

:

And, and I think I get

FOMO, fear of missing out.

666

:

So I don't want to, I don't want to miss

out on something that might be important.

667

:

And it's also habit.

668

:

I think, clicking into WhatsApp

and clicking into emails is almost

669

:

like an automatic thing we do now

without even thinking about it.

670

:

Sal Jefferies: Yeah, you're bang

on there about how habits form so

671

:

quickly because you pick up your phone

You think I'll tap my email, just

672

:

check if there's anything important.

673

:

Any of this, if you say I'll just,

you're on a slippery slope , it

674

:

could be five minutes But it's it's

about where does your attention go?

675

:

So a couple of things here Environment

design is really interesting and

676

:

I've worked with people who've

done this and we've set this up

677

:

in for people I've worked with.

678

:

But if you design your

environment in a certain way,

679

:

it will have a certain output.

680

:

For example, if you work from home and

you're trying to get this work life

681

:

balance, you work from home and you've

got your desk in your bedroom or your

682

:

desk in your kitchen, fallouts from COVID.

683

:

The visual stimulus around you,

it could be like your personal

684

:

space, will still trigger you into

connecting to personal and vice versa.

685

:

If you're working in the kitchen and

you still got your laptop set up when

686

:

you're having dinner, you are visually

still, your peripheral vision, your

687

:

brain saying your laptop's there.

688

:

Maybe I need to just write

that note or just send my

689

:

client a thingy and off we go.

690

:

So what is in our visual

field, our environment is.

691

:

In some ways, very easy to design, we

can change our room, you, as you said,

692

:

you could buy a second phone, you could

work from a separate place, I use,

693

:

I use co working spaces sometimes.

694

:

Environment design is one of the

easiest ways to leverage habit,

695

:

because if we are, quote, trying

not to check our emails, that takes

696

:

effort and energy, that's draining.

697

:

creating habits around environment,

where is the phone or is no

698

:

phone, or, for instance, I never

take a phone in my gym, never.

699

:

Yeah, I just train

because that's my space.

700

:

It's on Do Not Disturb.

701

:

It's locked away.

702

:

And, but I see people on the phone

in the gym and I'm like, wow, I know,

703

:

I know some people are looking at

being online trainers and that can

704

:

work, but your attention's not there.

705

:

And for those of us who know me, I train

a lot and I do a lot of strength and

706

:

conditioning and loads of fitness work.

707

:

If you are doing strength and fitness

of any nature and your break time

708

:

or rest time is you're on the phone.

709

:

You've put your body into

a state of Misattention.

710

:

I just checked my work email

before I do my next deadlift.

711

:

It

712

:

is the worst way to train

because you're not present.

713

:

You're not in the physiology

of what you're doing.

714

:

And your attention you've

just outsourced it.

715

:

And it's draining.

716

:

this whole thing around environment

design I think is super, super important.

717

:

Claire Elms: really,

really important, isn't it?

718

:

And I think as well, the, like the

working from home thing, like if,

719

:

if you've got mess somewhere, I

have children, they create mess.

720

:

It's like a, an avalanche of

disaster before they leave the house.

721

:

and if I was to then go around and if I

was sitting at I have, a garden office

722

:

because if I was sitting in the house,

I would be doing the, I'll just do the

723

:

dishwasher, or I'll just prep dinner, or

I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll just, there is the

724

:

I'll just, isn't it, all the time, and,

I'll just tidy up their rooms, or I'll

725

:

just sort this out, or I'll just sort that

out, and I, and like you say, and I think,

726

:

there's all this conversation around

multitasking and monotasking, isn't there?

727

:

But we can't multitask.

728

:

It takes 23 minutes to

get back on task again.

729

:

and so before you know it, your working

day has disappeared and you feel

730

:

like you haven't achieved anything

because you've, you've been like

731

:

your attention and your flow has been

elsewhere and you haven't focused.

732

:

It's the same when you're

scrolling on social media.

733

:

there was a really interesting,

conversation you had with Matt and your

734

:

podcast where you were talking about

social media, scrolling and stuff.

735

:

And it was really interesting

because it just really resonates.

736

:

So many people have that issue

where they are just check Facebook

737

:

or just checking LinkedIn or just

check, TikTok or whatever it is.

738

:

and then before, you're on like a

video frenzy of, of seeing other

739

:

people mapping out their lives.

740

:

which A, makes you have comparisonitis,

good old comparisonitis, where

741

:

you go, Oh, I'm not good enough.

742

:

And what am I, I'm not doing that.

743

:

And maybe I should be doing that.

744

:

and then it also makes you look around and

go, Oh, that's what I want to strive for.

745

:

And then it's sometimes that

could be healthy, right?

746

:

You can go, Oh yeah.

747

:

Okay.

748

:

I'm going to change some habits and I'm

going to focus on, that conversation

749

:

that Sal had about like doing this, that

and the other, I'm going to do that.

750

:

but quite often you get

suckered into the next thing.

751

:

And it's, it's.

752

:

ads and stuff that come up

and a lot of people dunno.

753

:

They can just turn the ads off as well.

754

:

and, just like little, little

hacks I guess as you go

755

:

Sal Jefferies: Yeah.

756

:

It's such an important thing.

757

:

I've got a client and I'm going

to be sharing to me, she's super,

758

:

super busy, super successful,

super busy, parent, all this stuff.

759

:

I was doing a lot of time on social

media and we, we got into the question

760

:

like, okay, because it was around about

energy and your home life and work life.

761

:

So it was the work life

balance conversation.

762

:

And, and I got interested, okay,

So what's, what's driving that?

763

:

What are you looking for when

you're on Instagram or TikTok or

764

:

one of the, one of the platforms?

765

:

And, because I asked, could you tell

me how good Instagram was last night?

766

:

And what post did you see?

767

:

And they're like, I

can't remember any of it.

768

:

literally couldn't remember any.

769

:

okay, so it has no stickiness.

770

:

It's just busy.

771

:

And actually what we found was, this

person was looking to downregulate.

772

:

They were longing to switch off.

773

:

Now, now the sentiment and

the intent is perfect, right?

774

:

I want to switch off.

775

:

I've had a busy day.

776

:

You can't switch off when you're

being dopamine spiked, right?

777

:

You're being pumped.

778

:

That's like trying to

switch off while sprinting.

779

:

It doesn't work.

780

:

your nervous system is going

jacked up and then you move

781

:

into sympathetic nervous system.

782

:

But the sentiment and the need is there.

783

:

I want to switch off.

784

:

So sometimes it's about checking

that homeostasis in the mind.

785

:

okay, I know I have this habit of

scrolling and I know it doesn't work.

786

:

How can I choose better for my work

life integration, which might look

787

:

like, for me, it's always getting

to the body, some form of movement.

788

:

Reading is a beautiful discipline.

789

:

I read loads.

790

:

I love reading and just

simply being kind to yourself.

791

:

I think it's important thing here.

792

:

We all want to switch off.

793

:

There's nothing quote wrong with

social media scrolling, but for every

794

:

minute of attention you give that.

795

:

You've, you've given that minute of your

life away to someone else and they ain't

796

:

paying you and if you are tired and you're

using things like social media and, and,

797

:

tech to take your attention away, that is

not downregulation, that's distraction.

798

:

So sometimes it takes a bit of a kind

of slap around the face to realize

799

:

that I'm just distracting myself.

800

:

Yeah, I know what I'm doing.

801

:

That's okay.

802

:

We don't want to get beat up, but

it's like, what do you actually want?

803

:

I want to sleep well.

804

:

Okay, cool.

805

:

Let's put better practice in place.

806

:

Phone away, book out, walk before

bed or whatever it is you need to do.

807

:

But coming awake to what is going on.

808

:

And I wanted to say something that

you said there and I pick up on it,

809

:

attention, so if we're looking for work

life balance, then where's your attention?

810

:

As you've already beautifully alluded

to, where's your attention as a busy mom?

811

:

If you're multitasking, are you

like, I'll just do this, do that.

812

:

If you cannot control your attention

and again, don't, there's no need

813

:

to beat up on oneself about this

because it's not easy, but being

814

:

able to hold attention on something

is becoming a real masterful gift.

815

:

It's

816

:

hard, right?

817

:

Yeah, it's like why I do heavy, heavy

weightlifting because you can't not pay

818

:

attention when you're trying to lift

your body weight off the floor, right?

819

:

You can't be thinking, oh, should I

just call so and so and how's my shorts?

820

:

You have to focus and that's why

I love strong practice, strong

821

:

physical training practice

because you have to pay attention.

822

:

Yoga as well, you can pay

attention, but for some of us

823

:

your mind can still go off there.

824

:

So whatever way works, but how we

manage our attention, what practices

825

:

are you working with your clients

about attention management and

826

:

attention, control to some degree?

827

:

How do you work with that?

828

:

Claire Elms: Yeah.

829

:

For me, you've alluded to it anyway,

is the awareness, like quite often

830

:

we, we're not aware that it's a thing,

especially as, as, as a parent, my kids

831

:

will be like, oh, can you just do this?

832

:

Can you just do that?

833

:

Can you, mum, can you do this?

834

:

Mum, I don't know how many times

I say mum in a day, it's painful.

835

:

and the amount of times I say to

them in a minute, and, and I've

836

:

really become aware of that recently.

837

:

I think like from COVID,

obviously, We're on our phones.

838

:

I was trying to manage the

business while being with the kids.

839

:

you're on your phone instead of the

computer trying to juggle stuff.

840

:

and I think my daughter, took, did

a, a picture of me with my phone.

841

:

And that for me was like, wow, that's not

how I want to be represented in her world.

842

:

That's not.

843

:

What's important to me and that,

and that for me was enough of a,

844

:

of a boundary kind of setting.

845

:

actually, I'm not going to be the

mom that's on the phone all the time.

846

:

That's not something that I'm going to be.

847

:

So for me, it's looking with, with

people of what are your boundaries?

848

:

like we're in a culture where we

like to say yes to stuff a lot.

849

:

we're in a culture where

everything is at our fingertips.

850

:

We can get anything we want

whenever we want, pretty much.

851

:

so how do we secure really clear

boundaries for ourselves to be

852

:

able to give attention to the

things that are important to us?

853

:

like when I do my exercising, I listen

to, I have my phone because I listen

854

:

to Spotify or I listen to a podcast.

855

:

I quite like listening to a podcast when

I go for a run, it's quite, it just,

856

:

because running then feels effortless,

it doesn't feel like I'm running

857

:

because I'm listening to something.

858

:

But to be fully present and have the

attention on the thing that you're

859

:

doing is a really, really hard thing.

860

:

And I think it is that understanding

and awareness, it starts with that,

861

:

because to make any kind of change, you

need to be aware that there's a problem.

862

:

and a lot of people aren't aware

that there's a problem because they

863

:

just, that's just what they're doing.

864

:

so having that awareness that

there's a thing, and then looking

865

:

at, how do I want that to look?

866

:

If I want to focus on eating healthier,

or I want to focus on doing more

867

:

exercise, or I want to focus on,

we've got seven, seven pillars of well

868

:

being, so like, when we think of well

being, we think of the physical, right?

869

:

We think of sleep, we think of

eating, and we think of exercise,

870

:

but that's only one element.

871

:

We've also got the mental health,

like, how are you feeling?

872

:

the amount of people that

say like, how are you?

873

:

And it's a flippant white hello, right?

874

:

But like, how many

people actually ask that?

875

:

Friends and colleagues, like, how

about you actually, like, how are

876

:

you actually doing, are you okay?

877

:

I, especially if you're concerned about

somebody, it's that, real attention,

878

:

asking really clear questions, having the

right question, I think, with coaching and

879

:

therapy, any intervention that's like a

helping practitioner intervention, having

880

:

the right question to ask someone to get

them to think, to, to trigger an emotion.

881

:

to trigger a feeling in their body

and it's that, like, how it connects

882

:

to your body is so important because

once you're connected with it, you're

883

:

aware of it and then you can change it

if you need to and so having that kind

884

:

of really clear outline for people of

what they need to do, how they need to

885

:

be and, and working on themselves, I

think is we talk about self care, right?

886

:

And we think, oh, yeah, it's It's

fluffy, it's like going to a spa

887

:

and, having massages and stuff and,

oh yeah, that's lovely, isn't it?

888

:

But there should be something in your

day, every day, gives you something for

889

:

you, in whatever capacity that is, that's

not work related, that's not, know,

890

:

something that you feel like you have to

do, but something that you want to do,

891

:

something that, that makes you feel good.

892

:

Because if you don't have

anything that makes you feel

893

:

good, what's the point, right?

894

:

Sal Jefferies: Yeah, absolutely.

895

:

Yeah.

896

:

All this work and no play.

897

:

It's seriously, what is the point?

898

:

And I think that that's one of the

brutal questions that needs to be asked.

899

:

And questions are, vehicles

of attention, to quest.

900

:

That's where the word question

comes from, to quest, to seek,

901

:

and a, and a, and a good coach and

therapist will, will know this.

902

:

perhaps other people's Oh

yeah, that's what it means,

903

:

but it's, it's powerful thing.

904

:

And when we self quest, where we

go yeah, what really matters to me?

905

:

Yeah, it's fine growing my business

or working hard in my company and all

906

:

that, but what really matters to me?

907

:

is your marriage or

your job more important?

908

:

They're brutal questions sometimes, but

someone's you've got to ask it, right?

909

:

oh god, I haven't really

paid attention at home.

910

:

I need to get my, get my things together.

911

:

Or, are you, 16 years and

catch up with them later?

912

:

Because you can't buy that back, no

matter how many millions you've got

913

:

in the bank, you can't buy time.

914

:

So these questions sometimes

are really uncomfortable.

915

:

And really enlightening, so I, I, I

heartily recommend to all, if we're

916

:

seeking work life balance, ask the

questions, like what really matters to me,

917

:

what do I value, as Claire, you've already

said, who do I want to be, and, and know

918

:

that stuff, and then start to get really

clear, okay, I've got some choices to

919

:

make here, if you want to be fit and well

when you're midlife and older, you can't

920

:

get away with not exercising and eating

well and sleeping well, it just, it just

921

:

won't happen for you, there'd just be too

many biases against you being healthy.

922

:

So you've got to choose what you

want and with choice, the word

923

:

decision comes from decide, that's

the same origin of homicide.

924

:

It means to kill off a

choice and have one choice.

925

:

Multitasking, just stop it.

926

:

You just do lots of things badly, right?

927

:

Take a choice, see the kids, watch the TV

program, go to your meeting, try, be there

928

:

and be there fully is way more powerful.

929

:

Now I want to,

930

:

Claire Elms: I saw, based on that,

sorry to interrupt Sal, but, when I

931

:

was looking at what to talk about for

today, I saw a quote, which I pulled

932

:

out, which I really like, and it's,

I'm not a product of circumstances.

933

:

I'm a product of my decisions

and it just goes really well

934

:

with what you've just said.

935

:

So I just thought I'd throw

that in, but yeah, to me,

936

:

decisions is really important.

937

:

And we have a choice, right?

938

:

We have a

939

:

Sal Jefferies: the ultimate gift of

being a conscious human being, that's a

940

:

belief I hold, and that is that we have

choice, and I recognize that some of

941

:

those people have more privilege and some

people have less, of course, that's the

942

:

truth of the world, but there's often a

choice, and okay, what choice can I make?

943

:

And even if your job demands are

difficult and you've got Put the hours in.

944

:

Fine.

945

:

But what choice can I make here?

946

:

Can I, when I come

home, be really at home?

947

:

whatever it is, what choice can I make?

948

:

Because that is your power.

949

:

And if you give that choice

away, plenty of people take it.

950

:

whether it's an internet company,

whether it's a Silicon Valley

951

:

company, people want your choices.

952

:

So sell them wisely.

953

:

Claire Elms: And with

choice comes opportunity

954

:

Sal Jefferies: Absolutely.

955

:

So how about we bring this to a close?

956

:

I, I, we've taken everyone on a, on a bit

of a journey here around all the things.

957

:

If we've come away from striving for

work life balance, but understand we need

958

:

it in the context that we understand.

959

:

What's last?

960

:

Guidance points.

961

:

Would you like to share, Claire, that

you would say these are key things

962

:

that are gonna really help you find

a healthy and a, and a, an odd,

963

:

more appropriate work-life balance.

964

:

Claire Elms: think it's, I think a few

top tips, is like understanding yourself,

965

:

understanding where, what, what, what's

important to you, where your values are,

966

:

what you want out of life, like what, what

gets you going, what, what makes you who

967

:

you are, how you want to live your life.

968

:

Understand that you can make

choices within that process.

969

:

For me, it's, it's having an

understanding of your wellbeing.

970

:

So looking at the pillars of the well

being, which we haven't really touched

971

:

on today and it's a whole conversation in

its own right, but having an understanding

972

:

of how you as a person links in with your

well being, links in with your emotional

973

:

intelligence and links in with your

mental fitness, mental toughness, and how

974

:

all of those things enhance you to get,

to, to do, to, to get the performance

975

:

that you want, and, and to do the things

that you want that are important to

976

:

you, having really clear boundaries.

977

:

And setting clear expectations.

978

:

Sal Jefferies: Really nice, powerful.

979

:

Yeah.

980

:

Super salient points.

981

:

I, I, I, I agree.

982

:

I works with me.

983

:

I love what you've said there,

and I hope, hope if you're taking

984

:

notes, get that down or replay it.

985

:

one thing I'd just like to speak to is,

is understanding the, It starts within,

986

:

the ecosystem of you is your physiology,

your emotional system, and your mind.

987

:

We often look outwards, it's how

the human system is designed.

988

:

We look out through our eyes, we see

the world around us, but Start at home.

989

:

Take care of your body.

990

:

Be strong, be active, and,

this isn't a quick fix.

991

:

I don't buy any quick fixes

with the whole health thing.

992

:

this is a lifestyle.

993

:

It could take you ten years to

get the body composition you

994

:

want, or the health you want.

995

:

But you'll be there in ten years.

996

:

So keep going start with the body check

your emotional state and as Claire

997

:

spoke about we've only touched on it

But learn about breath work get the

998

:

basics get the basics of how to breathe

and regulate because emotions drive our

999

:

Thinking to a large extent and checking

with your with your mind as Claire you

:

00:51:09,568 --> 00:51:13,718

said values What do you really want your

choices if you come from those spaces?

:

00:51:14,338 --> 00:51:18,478

Your work life choices will become quite

clear and they will probably become much

:

00:51:18,478 --> 00:51:20,278

more, more in line with what you want.

:

00:51:20,288 --> 00:51:24,178

So there are my thoughts on how to

perhaps pull this together, for a

:

00:51:24,188 --> 00:51:27,018

better work life coherence, perhaps.

:

00:51:28,018 --> 00:51:28,308

Claire Elms: Yeah.

:

00:51:28,308 --> 00:51:30,488

And it's understanding

that everyone's different.

:

00:51:30,488 --> 00:51:31,458

It was quite interesting.

:

00:51:31,488 --> 00:51:34,728

even this morning, somebody phoned

me literally just before I came

:

00:51:34,728 --> 00:51:37,958

on and I said, Oh, I am, I'm

just about to go into a meeting.

:

00:51:37,958 --> 00:51:40,378

And they said, Oh, I could

phone you at lunchtime.

:

00:51:40,378 --> 00:51:42,828

I know that's not appropriate,

but how about one o'clock?

:

00:51:43,328 --> 00:51:46,988

And I was like, he's assuming that I

have a lunch break at one o'clock, but I

:

00:51:47,008 --> 00:51:48,238

don't have a lunch break at one o'clock.

:

00:51:48,528 --> 00:51:50,968

So it's quite interesting, isn't it?

:

00:51:50,968 --> 00:51:55,348

How that kind of awareness just

generally is, is with other people,

:

00:51:55,388 --> 00:51:57,388

but taking breaks is really important.

:

00:51:57,398 --> 00:52:02,518

So having an understanding

of the, when you, when you do

:

00:52:02,518 --> 00:52:03,818

choose to work in an evening.

:

00:52:04,343 --> 00:52:07,453

Why you choose to work in an evening, if

you choose to do something at the weekend,

:

00:52:07,493 --> 00:52:10,933

Why you're choosing to do something at

the weekend, and if you're choosing to

:

00:52:10,933 --> 00:52:17,453

take time during your working day, to

do things like fitness or something for

:

00:52:17,453 --> 00:52:22,473

you, they're not feeling guilty about

that as well because that can really take

:

00:52:22,528 --> 00:52:23,388

Sal Jefferies: Yeah, absolutely.

:

00:52:23,388 --> 00:52:23,878

Yes.

:

00:52:23,978 --> 00:52:25,538

Make choices wisely.

:

00:52:25,628 --> 00:52:25,978

Yeah.

:

00:52:26,148 --> 00:52:27,438

Own your choices.

:

00:52:27,748 --> 00:52:28,828

Own your choices.

:

00:52:29,828 --> 00:52:34,608

And keep an eye on the sneaky guilt that

can sneak up and yeah, just, get present.

:

00:52:35,068 --> 00:52:39,078

Claire, thank you for sharing, lots

of thoughts, experience, knowledge,

:

00:52:39,108 --> 00:52:40,648

and wisdom from your perspective.

:

00:52:40,708 --> 00:52:43,718

I very much appreciate you coming

and joining me in the conversation.

:

00:52:44,108 --> 00:52:46,828

I trust if you're listening that

you have scribbled down notes,

:

00:52:46,828 --> 00:52:47,708

you've tapped them in your phone.

:

00:52:47,758 --> 00:52:50,558

If you've just listened and gone,

that's all really interesting.

:

00:52:50,783 --> 00:52:52,113

Do you really want work life balance?

:

00:52:52,633 --> 00:52:55,003

I would say, and this is what I do

in my podcast when I listen to other

:

00:52:55,003 --> 00:53:00,673

people, I take it like a lecture and

I play it back and I make my notes and

:

00:53:00,673 --> 00:53:02,443

I integrate it into my understanding.

:

00:53:02,443 --> 00:53:06,193

So if there's something that's just chimed

with you, play this back, get the notes,

:

00:53:06,253 --> 00:53:09,303

make the points, and lastly, take action.

:

00:53:10,303 --> 00:53:13,463

Claire Elms: I do the one thing, I don't

know if you do that Sal, but just choose

:

00:53:13,463 --> 00:53:17,443

one thing from what we spoke about today

and that you're going to do different.

:

00:53:18,068 --> 00:53:18,558

Sal Jefferies: Choose one

:

00:53:18,558 --> 00:53:18,838

thing.

:

00:53:19,238 --> 00:53:20,288

We shall leave you on that.

:

00:53:20,288 --> 00:53:21,028

Choose one thing.

:

00:53:21,038 --> 00:53:23,958

And as, of course, you can

always reach out on the various,

:

00:53:23,998 --> 00:53:25,738

connections on the pod page.

:

00:53:25,738 --> 00:53:26,628

You can reach me at the site.

:

00:53:26,728 --> 00:53:29,188

All details will be following

up after this, piece.

:

00:53:30,108 --> 00:53:31,798

Thank you, dear listener, for joining us.

:

00:53:31,908 --> 00:53:34,058

Thank you, Claire, for being

in conversation with me.

:

00:53:34,058 --> 00:53:35,058

I've really enjoyed this.

:

00:53:35,118 --> 00:53:37,168

And, until the next one, take care.

:

00:53:37,681 --> 00:53:37,861

Claire Elms: care.

:

00:53:37,861 --> 00:53:38,121

Bye.

:

00:53:43,335 --> 00:53:44,985

Sal Jefferies: Thank you

so much for listening.

:

00:53:45,255 --> 00:53:48,825

If you enjoyed the episode,

please subscribe and if a friend

:

00:53:48,825 --> 00:53:51,915

would benefit from hearing this,

do send it on to them as well.

:

00:53:53,115 --> 00:53:56,115

If you would like to get in touch

yourself, then you can go to my website,

:

00:53:56,355 --> 00:54:05,025

which is sal jeffries.com, spelled S

A L J E F E R I E s sal jeffries.com.

:

00:54:05,325 --> 00:54:08,685

Hit the get in touch link and there

you can send me a direct message.

:

00:54:09,630 --> 00:54:12,510

If you'd like to go one step further

and learn whether coaching could help

:

00:54:12,510 --> 00:54:17,190

you overcome a challenge or a block

in your life, then do reach out and

:

00:54:17,190 --> 00:54:20,580

I offer a call where we can discuss

how this may be able to help you.

:

00:54:21,450 --> 00:54:23,370

Until the next time, take care.

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About the Podcast

Mindset, Mood & Movement: Systems Thinking for Founder
Human performance podcast for life and business
Welcome to the Mindset, Mood & Movement Podcast. Your essential resource for founders, freelancers, and business owners looking to optimise their mindset, health, and business success.

Dive deep into the realm of human performance with us as we explore the systemic connections between psychology, emotions, and physical wellbeing, and their profound impact on achieving success and fulfilment in both personal and professional life.

Discover 3 key outcome areas: enhancing performance, redefining fulfilment, and cultivating peace of mind. Join me as I feature guest specialists in various fields, offering invaluable insights and expertise plus mini-episodes where I address specific challenge and provide actionable guidance on overcoming these obstacles.

Each episode is crafted to provide education, tools and strategies for you, whether you're navigating the complexities of entrepreneurship or seeking personal growth in your professional journey. My podcast serves as your ultimate guide to self-improvement and achieving excellence in your endeavours.

Expect to gain practical insights, delve into expert interviews, and receive actionable strategies tailored to the unique needs of small business owners and ambitious individuals striving to make a positive impact on the world.

About your host

Profile picture for Sal Jefferies

Sal Jefferies

I’m Sal - Human Performance Coach, Educator and Founder.

Everything I coach and teach is what I practice in my life. Mindset work including psychological and emotional development. And for my physical health, I do strength training, fitness and breathing practices. In all areas, I'm constantly learning and always growing.

At mid-life, I'm curious to how we can shape the second half of our life whilst using the latest science and learning's from psychology, emotional regulation and physical health. Over the last 25 years, I have immersed myself in many Eastern influences from philosophy, yoga and meditation. I find in our current world, there's much to learn by combining the latest science with ancient wisdom.

For me, working on the mind is paramount. Also, remaining fit, healthy and curious helps me increase performance, find fulfilment and create peace of mind. I believe this is important both a personal and professional life.

My professional endeavours, which inform my work, include:
Human Performance Coaching (for Founders), Contemporary Psychotherapist, Yoga Teacher, Strength & Conditioning Trainer and Breathwork Trainer. Before this latest chapter of my life, I've been a Photographer, Advertising Exec & Dancer.

When I'm not working, educating or learning, I'll be out with my dogs by the sea in Brighton, UK.