Episode 22

full
Published on:

7th Dec 2023

Overcoming Loneliness and Isolation by Strengthening Your Social Health with April Baker

In this episode, I speak with April Baker, CEO of the loneliness charity TogetherCo, about combatting loneliness and isolation by improving your social health. They discuss the differences between being alone, loneliness, and isolation. April shares her personal struggles with loneliness in her twenties while outwardly appearing to have an active social life.

We explore how the COVID-19 pandemic impacted people's social connections and mental health, especially for those already isolated or lonely. They talk about how to strengthen social health even for busy, successful people who still feel lonely. April offers practical tips like taking stock of your current relationships, performing small acts of kindness daily, and getting involved in your community through volunteering.

Key Takeaways:

- Loneliness is feeling disconnected even if you're around people; isolation is being unable to leave home or interact.

- You can appear to have an active social life online but still feel profound loneliness.

- The pandemic severely affected social health for many, especially older adults.

- Strengthen social health by taking stock of key relationships, showing kindness daily, and volunteering in your community.

- Making social health a priority is just as important as diet and exercise for overall wellbeing.

Quotes and insights from the episode:

"Loneliness is feeling disconnected even if you're around people...you could be lonely in a room full of people and look like you’ve got loads of friends."

"Loneliness is as bad for us as smoking 15 cigarettes a day. It really is a killer."

"The pandemic was a destroyer for some people, some people I know, older people... Soon as that was taken away, their mobility went right down, their movement went right down, their health often collapsed."

"Everybody deserves somebody. We come, we don’t come into this world fully alone...we shouldn’t go out on our own as well. And then sadly, people do."

"Making social health a priority is just as important as diet and exercise for overall wellbeing."

April's Quote:

"Loneliness is feeling disconnected even if you're around people...you could be lonely in a room full of people and look like you’ve got loads of friends."


Get in touch with April & Together Co:

Together Co is Brighton and Hove’s loneliness charity. We create connections to change lives. 

Get support | Help fund our services | Volunteer 

Follow TogetherCo on Twitter | Instagram | Facebook 


Get in touch with Sal

If this episode has caught your attention and you wish to learn more, then please contact me. I offer a free 20 min call where we can discuss a challenge your facing and how I may be able to help you

Transcript
Sal Jefferies:

Hello and welcome.

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Do you feel lonely and isolated sometimes?

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By strengthening your social

health, you can improve your

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physical and mental health too.

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Now this is a really, really important

topic, which I'm delighted to have

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April Baker from Together Co, which

is a loneliness charity, join me.

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Together is a specialist in this

field, does amazing work around

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people, social health and loneliness.

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And loneliness and isolation is something

that we all experience, whether we perhaps

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in a personal space, maybe you're a leader

or a founder, it's lonely at the time.

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Loneliness can touch anyone and

it can have profound effects.

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So I'm delighted to welcome April and

we're going to share with you a lot of

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thoughts and understanding and things

that you can do to deal if you're

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dealing with loneliness and isolation.

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April, welcome!

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April Baker: It's great to be here

and talking all things social health.

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excited.

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Sal Jefferies: Good

stuff, lovely to have you.

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In terms of definition, words

are powerful and sometimes words

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can be, interpreted differently.

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I'd like to talk to the three things of

isolation, loneliness, and social health.

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So what's your definition of isolation?

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April Baker: Yeah, so I think for

me, loneliness and isolation can be

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mixed together and used together where

people think it's the same thing.

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So isolation is objective

part of loneliness.

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So isolation is you are unable to

leave the house because of, let's

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say, a physical health condition,

or we have become isolated because

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of a pandemic and we're locked down.

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So we are isolated.

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So that's the objective part.

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Loneliness.

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Now that is subjective.

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That's something we feel and, and that's

got many layers to it and probably

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a lot more connotation and when you

pitch a loneliness for me, I picture

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older, older person, on their own

living on their own kind of, I always

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think when I'm thinking of loneliness,

Eleanor Rigby plays in my mind, that

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that song comes up was actually,

and I still think that even though I

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have been lonely as a young person.

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So loneliness, it's a feeling.

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And there's different forms of loneliness.

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So it's around a

disconnection from something.

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So it could be a

disconnection from yourself.

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So you just don't get yourself,

you don't know who you are.

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So it's quite existential in that regards.

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But also there's a

loneliness of not belonging.

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So you're not belonging to the

job that you go to every maybe

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the wider community and network.

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It's a real felt thing that One person

that has been a supporter of for many

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years and also used to access our

services beautifully described it,

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where they said, I feel homesick, but

I don't know where my home And that

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for me was like, yes, that is it.

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That is how you feel.

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It can be very stigmatizing.

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To admit I am lonely.

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And so that's the key differences for me.

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I would say you've got

isolation, loneliness.

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Someone can become lonely because

of their isolation, but you could be

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lonely in a room full of people and

look like you've got loads of friends,

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but you just don't feel connected.

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And so I think that's more what

people feel and go, what is this?

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Because I've got loads of friends and I'm

in this room with 400 people and I've got

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a thousand friends on my social media.

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Yeah.

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That's the loneliness that feels

different, I think people, feel, but

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they don't know what that is, and I

think more people need to understand,

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that's because you're a social being,

and something is not quite connected

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for you, that you need to, to find.

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Sal Jefferies: Lovely,

really eloquent and powerful.

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I really struck me your

descriptions there.

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Thank you.

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I know you work with us in depth and

what you said there about Being social

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beings, of course we are, we're hardwired,

humans are powerful as a social species.

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We're, we're quite fragile as a, as a,

as an animal compared to say, a lion

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or a tiger, those powerful number.

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We're very clever as a group and of

course we, we now dominate the earth.

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So we, we work as groups and

we work well as groups and

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we're hardwired for grouping.

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There's a whole lots of things

in the brain, such as mirror

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neurons, to have empathy.

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There's these things that

we very much know now.

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One thing that really struck me is that...

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That perhaps illusion that may be going on

for some people where you've got friends,

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a big social media following, you could

be successful in all these, what seem

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apparently, outwardly good, appearances.

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And yet on the inside, there may

be this loneliness, this sort of

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emptiness, this calling for home and

you don't know what's going on with me.

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And I have a lot of clients that

come in and try and figure out stuff.

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So they're very clever and try and

cognize and think through problems.

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And it's not a thinking problem,

it's a feeling problem as such, as

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an emotional issue or as a disconnect

and that really struck from when

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you said that and for, for, for our

listeners, I think if that lands for

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you, then it's, it's let's name this.

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It's one of the most

empowerful things, right?

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Naming what's going on.

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Then you can work with it.

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Wonderful social health.

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Now you and I have spoken about this.

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It's something that we're going to

go into, into some, some depth here.

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Please describe your

interpretation of social health.

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April Baker: bit of a journey has, has

happened with, TogetherCo, starting to

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talk more about social really going years.

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And if I first just start by saying that

loneliness can be the negative aspect

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of it so you don't feel like you belong.

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So there's loneliness and people

talk about an For us, we're trying

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to recognise that human beings have

different parts and all those parts

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need to be working well, which will

equate to being and us to thrive.

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So we want to work at what's right

with us and normalise this feeling.

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social health.

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is about your relationships.

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So your network of relationships,

the importance of relationships and

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connections, like I was saying before,

your social health with your close five.

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And then, which might be, you have

three or four very close networks.

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You then may have your local

community, friends, and it's,

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what's that looking like?

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And we have to put social health

into the conversations alongside

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physical health and mental health.

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So we've got physical.

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Health.

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We talk a lot about that.

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We are now talking much more about

our mental health, have social

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We are social beings and those

three combined equals well being.

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Don't miss the social health.

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I think it's the missing part And I think

now more than ever from the pandemic

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that we've all been through collectively

together, this must start being spoken

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about more because through many studies,

what is shown about The key to the good

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life is It's your So that's where we're

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Sal Jefferies: Thank you.

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Yes, really, again, eloquent,

lovely, very succinct.

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and as you know, for my regular listeners,

that my entire philosophy is based

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on an ecosystem of the individual,

how our mind works, our emotional

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mind or body and our physical body.

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And if we only attend to one, we're

missing out on, on the, on the other.

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So you might exercise a lot, but may

not deal with your emotional challenges.

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You may go to a psychotherapist or a coach

and do your mind stuff but if you're not

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moving, and you're getting your body in

a good place, you're missing out on how

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the whole system works as an ecosystem.

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But of course, we are a

system within a system.

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No person works alone.

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It doesn't work like that.

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And we know that.

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We've got family.

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It's just how it actually is.

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It's basic science, right?

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And of course, it's very easy in

our atomized, particularly our

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western culture, our very modern

life that, We are individuals.

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The individual is highly prized.

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it's a big thing and it's a great thing.

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But if it's highly prized at the extent

of I am separate from the other, it's

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this disconnection, this sort of sneaky

problem I see in coming up on one guy or

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another and disconnection is a problem.

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And as you've alluded to,

social health is, it's, it's,

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it's blooming obvious, right?

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It's really obvious.

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It's nice to have some friends.

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It's nice to get on with your family.

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It's good to have some co workers.

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And it's tough when you

either don't get on with those

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people, or you don't have them.

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yeah.

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And I think when we term something

as social health, and then

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add to it, okay, we need this.

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It's not a nice thing.

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Just, keep working your 50 hour

week and, no, we work as a system.

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We're a system within a system.

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How can that work well?

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So that's beautiful.

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April, I'd love to learn a little bit

more about how you got into the field of

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working with social health and loneliness.

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And how did, how did this come to you?

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What, what brought you into

this space in the world?

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April Baker: I think there's

that led me to where I am.

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where I'm, as you can probably

tell, very passionate about talking

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about loneliness and social health.

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The first thing for me is I was raised as

an So I grew up with, mum, dad and myself.

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And from that I had a fascination with

larger families and groups of people.

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And actually, one of my earliest memories

is as a little girl, I used to, so we

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had a Victorian house and I used to,

all the gardens were interconnected

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and I used to cycle up and down the

gardens of these little Victorian houses.

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And there was a few older people up.

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on that road that lived on their own.

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And I used to go in and have a cup of

tea and then try to invite them back.

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So there was something from a very little

girl going, why are they on their own?

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No one should be on their own.

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And my mum is from Ireland.

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She's from Cork.

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My mum is one of 14.

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So I went through, going from

England, me, mum, dad, my family

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around us to Ireland, massive family.

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And so there was this fascination.

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What's going on?

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What's going on?

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Then I went to work in, different

areas within the charity sector.

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So I previously ran services,

including hostels for people

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experiencing homelessness.

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I also ran care homes for people

with mental, health issues.

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And from all of the services

I've ever managed or worked in,

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people just wanted to belong.

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So we'd na we would also

label people homeless.

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mental health.

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They're just people and

they want to belong.

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And some of the most powerful ways that

they got better was through feeling like

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they were connected to something more

than their condition or their experience.

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So that I think started this

journey for me and this interest.

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Then I previously studied

psychology and I'm now studying a

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master's in positive psychology.

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So I got this fascination

with what's right with us.

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How do we thrive?

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what makes us well.

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And every single model that you look at

in well being, in positive psychology, one

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aspect of it is relationships, connection.

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All of this combined made me

realise the importance of what I

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now have said is social health, but

of connection, of social beings.

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And then, as I came to this realisation,

this role came up at TogetherCo, and

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suddenly I found This charity in Brighton

and Hove that for 20, over 20 years

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has been doing exactly that, has been

waving the flag saying people need

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each other, we need to bring people

together, please don't forget that.

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And I was lucky enough to

become their CEO a year ago.

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So I think it's all been

building towards this.

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Sal Jefferies: Wow.

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Wow.

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And so interesting to hear that

as a single child, my niece,

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she's a single child and of

course I grew up with a sister.

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So when you look at these differences

and see what it's like, yeah, these

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things do influence us, our experience.

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It's very, very striking what you

said there about, not the label,

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not the homeless person, but the

condition it's, it, we get caught

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up in labels and, we use labels.

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It's how we make sense of the world.

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I think the problem we have with

labels in today's culture is that we,

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we are over labeled and we use things

like, people say to me, I've got

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anxiety or I've got this, got that.

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And while there is some truth in it, I

think the problem I have with labels is

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that we have to be careful that it doesn't

become a prison that we're stuck in.

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And it's One of the reasons I call

it out is because our brain is

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a predictive processing machine.

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some would say.

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Andy Clark of the Professor of

Cognitive Philosophy at Sussex

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would say in his amazing book.

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And if our mind is a prediction

machine and we're thinking we are,

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I'm a homeless person, I'm a lonely

person, people don't love me.

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We've, this, this Bias is our

behaviour and this is the work I do

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with psychologists to go into the

mind and look at what are our biases?

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How do we label ourselves?

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Because actually some of that can

predicate actions and behaviour

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which might lead to loneliness

or might lead to isolation.

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So it's a really important thing about

from the outside and from the inside,

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watching these descriptions, watching

these identity types and labels and

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being careful not to be trapped by them.

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and at the same time using them

for good measure to understand.

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So it needs this, both and approach I

find, which is really, really important.

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Now being alone, I've worked for myself

for a long time and I'm generally,

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to use a label, I'm, I'm an introvert

or I have an introverted nature.

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Most of the time will be accurate, right?

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So I love being around people,

but I can only do so much.

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And then I come back to

my space and re, regroup.

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I was curious because I never was

like this before the pandemic.

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literally I have changed

in quite a lot of ways.

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I don't know, various things

to do with the pandemic.

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I, I was, I had COVID very badly.

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I was out for a month and literally

nearly wiped me out, which is surprising

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because I'm generally quite fit and

and it just absolutely knocked me.

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But for whatever reason, this is

how I am now and, and I'm okay with

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it and I understand what I need.

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But the pandemic was a destroyer for

some people, some people I know, older

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people, they were going out, let's

say a little bit of shopping, catching

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up with some friends here and there.

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Soon as that was taken away,

their mobility went right down,

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their movement went right down,

their health often collapsed.

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And it's so sad, certainly for an

older generation who have to move.

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And, and I see lots of problems

that have come out of the pandemic.

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What if, what's your experience,

certainly with the work that you're

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doing, both professionally, personally,

since the pandemic, what's this, what

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has changed for us around how we act and

how loneliness and isolation has, has

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perhaps it's pulled us in, hasn't it?

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we were imprisoned many ways, locked

in, I would actually say it's locked up.

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it felt like that to me.

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I'd be, I was told I could not do stuff,

which is an imprisonment of sorts.

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And of course we've come out of

it, but there's a collective.

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Trauma, or there's a collective

echo of this still going around.

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Tell me more from your side.

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What are you seeing with this?

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April Baker: agree

around collective trauma.

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And I think for so many people it

depends on how they entered the pandemic.

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Did they become unwell?

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for instance, with the earlier cases of

COVID, and I'm really sorry to hear how

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unwell you were as well with that, and

then what is our opportunity coming out?

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So what we have experienced at

TogetherCo is a much higher level of,

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anxiety and agoraphobia as the reasons

people are being referred to us.

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So people that have, and I can

just say in terms of even my own

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friendship groups actually, people

that have never experienced anxiety.

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what that feels like, or being

fearful to go out and about.

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Suddenly have experienced that

because we got told stay in.

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It's very, very hard to go back out.

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So that's the first thing I

would say we're experiencing.

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The other thing to say is that before

we went into the, lockdowns, there was

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already people that were very isolated and

very lonely and now they are chronically.

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isolated and lonely because, as you

were saying, that one person that

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would come once a week to take them

out was that one bit of movement, that

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one, and actually, if we do not have

that, we decline very, very quickly.

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The thing I haven't mentioned around

loneliness is a really powerful piece of

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research has shown that loneliness is as

bad for us as smoking 15 cigarettes a day.

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It really is a killer.

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if people don't get that

once a week contact.

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Sometimes it might have

only been once a month.

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Someone who actually physically

comes, sees that person and takes

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them out, the decline is significant.

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So actually, people that were lonely

becoming chronically lonely as well.

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And then I think there's some

that, what I've noticed is They're

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trying to now be really busy

again and not coping with that.

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So they're like, oh my gosh I've lost

two years of my life and I've got to

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hurry up So we've come back out and

we had a slower pace and now we're

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trying to be as busy as we once were or

more Busy and so you hear how are you?

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I'm really busy I'm tired, I have to

book to see some of my friends five

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months in advance and that's too

much and then people are Needing,

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oh, there's something wrong with me

and I need to go and talk to someone.

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It's like we're just going too

fast back out of it because

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we're like, hurry up, hurry up.

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Because I think there's that fear

of, okay, this could happen again.

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we could be locked down again.

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I could, have my time limited again.

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So I think it really depends on

what came into the pandemic, what

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your situation was in the pandemic,

and how you're coming out of it.

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And I also don't think for the next few

years we are going to realize or see.

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The impact until we start seeing

the younger generations growing up.

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And a another sort of piece of

information that I have on that is

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I've been speaking to a university and

they were having retention issues with

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students staying, and those students.

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didn't have 15, 16, 17, going out and

about knowing their own boundaries.

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And suddenly they've come out

of the pandemic, go straight to

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halls of residence at university.

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And they're asking some of the site

managers, Oh, is it okay if I go out?

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Can I do that?

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They don't actually know because they

didn't have those really formative

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years kind of learn those things and

go through GCSEs and school together.

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And I don't even, if you then think of all

the years prior to that, the generations,

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so there is going to be some impact, there

is going to be some impact, definitely.

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And that's why, even more so, I'm

saying social health, because also,

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it's learning how to be a social being.

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And for some people, that they may need

to learn how to do that, and some of,

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some people, are different to others

in terms of maybe neurodiversity.

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So you've got to learn to find your

tribe, but know that you belong somewhere.

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Everyone belongs somewhere, but we've

got to do more and be more aware now that

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that's going to be an issue longer term.

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Social media is not the solution as well.

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That's not real connection.

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So that, that's what I would say

in terms of what we're seeing and

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what I've experienced as well.

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Sal Jefferies: that's really interesting.

349

:

Some of the clients I have seen since

the pandemic definitely have shown

350

:

that the magnification, or let's call

it the amplification, of what's going

351

:

on for them, whether it's heightened

anxiety, overly, I work with a lot

352

:

of people who are highly responsive.

353

:

We used to use the word highly

sensitive, and I used to use that

354

:

term myself, but I think a more

accurate term without the labels,

355

:

certainly as a man of my generation,

sensitive and shame go together.

356

:

guys who are listening

who are 40 plus, right?

357

:

Sensitive is normal, but actually

from a neurological point of

358

:

view, we are highly responsive.

359

:

we're very, very aware of feelings and

thoughts and all sorts of activities.

360

:

We have extra reception,

which is awareness of what's

361

:

around us, inter reception.

362

:

What's happening in your body and

the higher responsiveness you have

363

:

with that is the more you feel,

which put a pandemic in, put a world

364

:

changing, threat of, imminent danger.

365

:

You're just going to amp that up.

366

:

And a lot of people come from, certainly

to my space with a lot of this sort

367

:

of amplification of their patterns.

368

:

and thankfully they come to

do the work and change them.

369

:

So that's a good thing.

370

:

But yes, I think for, for those who's

listening, if you've come out of this and

371

:

you haven't looked at what's happened.

372

:

Questions, as you said,

April, how did you go in?

373

:

What did you go in with?

374

:

Because that might have got

amplified and it may need some work.

375

:

It might be work with family, it

might be work with a therapist.

376

:

It might need simply

naming and writing it down.

377

:

ah, this is what's going on for me.

378

:

Because the naming and understanding

is part of the solution always.

379

:

Now I'd like to speak to the, the issue of

social media and the issue of connection.

380

:

Now, I'm, I'm of a generation

where computers came in roughly

381

:

when I was, I don't know what,

teenage, something like that.

382

:

So I'm really old, although I'm going to

live for a long time because of the way I

383

:

live, but, today's world is, is predicated

and built on social media and connections.

384

:

And it's great.

385

:

I love my phone.

386

:

I love all the tech that gives

us lots of opportunities.

387

:

I think the issue that we have is,

is that if we are a lonely person

388

:

and it's not comfortable to be in a

group, hence if I'm out, out for a

389

:

drink or out for some food, If a group

of people, two people at a table, and

390

:

someone goes to use the bathroom, the

other person can't not use their phone.

391

:

If that's you, then, we all

do it to some degree . And I

392

:

find it absolutely fascinating.

393

:

We just knee jerk towards that addiction.

394

:

like a smoker reaches for the cigarette.

395

:

It's exactly the same.

396

:

Addiction's addiction.

397

:

And it needs to be named.

398

:

But as you rightly said, there

can be this, let's say, veneer of

399

:

connection, which could be, thousands

of Facebook friends or whatever.

400

:

When actually human contact now is,

is probably less and absolutely more

401

:

required and more needed to solve this

challenge of like, I feel alone or I

402

:

feel lonely, And I think there's an

easy out to use a phone or piece of tech

403

:

to go, Oh, on WhatsApp or on TikTok or

whatever it is that you're playing with.

404

:

Rather than meet that, probably

that existential angst, which

405

:

is, I feel really uncomfortable.

406

:

Yeah, and I think it needs naming, and

I'm a big fan of naming stuff, because

407

:

once we name it, it's not a shame.

408

:

But if you're feeling massively

uncomfortable, in my experience,

409

:

that feeling of loneliness is a tell.

410

:

all emotions have a reason.

411

:

It's a tell that, yes, you're

disconnected, or you need

412

:

to reconnect with somebody.

413

:

And I think that's a really important

thing for those of us who are a little

414

:

more biased towards tech for connection.

415

:

than we are going out for a coffee

with a friend or, talking to a

416

:

colleague and maybe, going out

for some food or, or going to some

417

:

sport together, something like that.

418

:

What are you doing with your, certainly

with your work and with TogetherCode

419

:

to, to address that very challenge?

420

:

April Baker: So I think for me, what

I wanted to start with, as well as

421

:

I will come to what we are looking

and seeing at with TogetherCo,

422

:

is something I haven't mentioned

yet, is my own loneliness journey.

423

:

So I was in my 20s.

424

:

Living in London, and I'd moved up there

for work, with a relationship that broke

425

:

down within the first year, going to work

every day, trying to, climb up the career

426

:

ladder, also during that time I'd had a

bereavement, so one of my close friends

427

:

had sadly died, so there was a lot going

on, but what I didn't realise, which

428

:

I know now, and I wish I'd known, was

actually the main thing that was going on

429

:

for me, was, disconnection from people.

430

:

So what you were saying about, if you

looked at my Facebook, because that's

431

:

what I used back then, because it's my

Facebook at the time for TikTok, I looked

432

:

like I was having the time of my life.

433

:

I had.

434

:

Loads of friends and, you know, atting

people and going to these parties

435

:

and, Oh look, I've just been promoted.

436

:

But actually, I was living in a part of

London where I, I didn't know anybody.

437

:

Up my road, I didn't know my

neighbours, I didn't know the

438

:

people I was house sharing with.

439

:

I had to travel across London

to see anyone at a weekend.

440

:

I remember some weekends

where I had no plans.

441

:

where I would literally go and

get my nails done or my hair done.

442

:

And again, that's a privileged position.

443

:

I could do that, so I'm very

mindful of my privilege within that.

444

:

But that was just to connect,

to have a conversation.

445

:

And for me, it took the realisation,

I'll never forget the moment, I was

446

:

on a train back from Dorset where

my family lived after Christmas.

447

:

And I was going back to London,

going to, go back to work,

448

:

go back to the shared living.

449

:

And I said, enough's enough.

450

:

And actually, what I had to

do is go What's going on?

451

:

And I really had to look inside

myself to be like, What am I missing?

452

:

And that's why I said, What am I missing?

453

:

What am I missing?

454

:

Because all the lead up to that was,

I'd been diagnosed with depression.

455

:

I had been diagnosed with, panic disorder.

456

:

I was going to therapy, but there was

something else that was not working.

457

:

The biggest thing that wasn't

working was where I was living

458

:

and not knowing anybody.

459

:

That started my journey back to Sussex.

460

:

And back to Brighton, because I also

realised through that journalling,

461

:

which was really powerful for

me during that time, I realised

462

:

the sea was really important.

463

:

So some people might find woods or

parks, the sea is really important.

464

:

I grew up in Dorset,

it was very important.

465

:

And also Brighton was where I

had the most amount of friends

466

:

in one place, which wasn't a lot.

467

:

I think it was four, four people.

468

:

so I was like, they're where

most of my friends are.

469

:

It's by the sea.

470

:

I know, I know some of the area and so

I made the move and I think for me, the

471

:

reason I'm sharing that is to say, like,

all of what's shown on social media and

472

:

what we do on social media absolutely can

be beneficial, during that time, I got

473

:

to message people and, and, Thank you.

474

:

connect with someone that I once

spoke to when I lived in Australia and

475

:

things like that, but it was not the

same as being physically in a place.

476

:

like actually on your street or in your

town, city, village, knowing people.

477

:

And that is really, really important.

478

:

And that is something like,

there is a lot of things that

479

:

social media can be good for.

480

:

So you can, through social media,

find your tribe of a particular

481

:

condition you might be suffering.

482

:

So for me, I got to join

a forum about anxiety.

483

:

Brilliant.

484

:

But it's not going to replace

that connection of an actual

485

:

person being in front of you.

486

:

And like I said, it doesn't

have to be best friends.

487

:

It can be going to the corner

shop and knowing Joe, who runs the

488

:

corner shop and having a chat every

day, going, to the coffee shop.

489

:

And that's another thing that we're

losing less and less of is those.

490

:

places of connection in

our town, cities, villages.

491

:

So recently, I'll give you an example.

492

:

They are looking to close ticket

stations at train stations.

493

:

Big concern for me.

494

:

And so when I bring into what we do at

TogetherCo, so TogetherCo has spoken

495

:

about that and said, hang on a minute.

496

:

Firstly, people need to connect

and a lot of people going to the

497

:

train station need a conversation.

498

:

And secondly, their reason

for it was modernization.

499

:

Surely modernisation in this world is

actually being inclusive of people,

500

:

and I was reading about the RNIB did

a survey for people who are partially

501

:

or blind, and only 3 percent of people

surveyed from that community would

502

:

feel comfortable using a machine.

503

:

actually, this isn't modernisation at all.

504

:

For me, this is choosing

convenience over connection.

505

:

And that is something bringing

TogetherCo back into it.

506

:

TogetherCo is trying to say,

Look, let's not do convenience

507

:

and cost cutting over connection.

508

:

Because those small moments of

connection, it doesn't have to be big.

509

:

And that's why I don't want people

to feel like, Oh, but I still don't

510

:

have any, that I don't know people.

511

:

It doesn't matter.

512

:

Go and just have a conversation,

in your local shop.

513

:

Go and have a coffee and get

to know the coffee owners.

514

:

Those few moments of connection,

it's been proven biologically.

515

:

Help us every day with

our positive emotion.

516

:

that's what, so we're

campaigning it together, Co.

517

:

But also there's a real personal message

from me that I wanted to share at

518

:

this point to say I have felt lonely.

519

:

It did cause my mental breakdown.

520

:

It was caused by my loneliness.

521

:

My social health impacted

my mental health.

522

:

Sal Jefferies: thank you.

523

:

That's a very powerful story

and I'm very touched by it.

524

:

So thank you for sharing and obviously

sorry for the loss of your friend.

525

:

Isn't it interesting, the labelling, and

whilst the conditions you may have had

526

:

at that time, I call them expressions,

we call them conditions if you're

527

:

medical, but depression, panic disorder.

528

:

I think if we don't look at the

environment, like you've already

529

:

alluded to, like the social health

environment, we don't look at

530

:

what's the bigger picture here?

531

:

What's going on?

532

:

And I would actually also say

the better question, certainly a

533

:

question I drop in my coaching a

lot, is like, what is not going on?

534

:

Because we often look at what we're

doing, but what are we not doing?

535

:

I haven't gone to the shop

this week, or, I know, I know a

536

:

client and they work in, tech.

537

:

and they spend a lot of time

with them, tech is what they do.

538

:

And they don't go out much.

539

:

I'm like, what do you mean

you haven't been out today?

540

:

What do you mean?

541

:

I've been out like eight times,

I've done seven miles already.

542

:

And they're like, oh no, I didn't go out.

543

:

I'm like, wow.

544

:

And of course, that's, that's not healthy.

545

:

Humans are wired to connect.

546

:

And sometimes it, the, what am I not

doing question is really powerful.

547

:

Cause if you are having the experience

of depression or you're pulling back, or

548

:

there's a lot of panic or anxiety, there's

a reason why your nervous system, your

549

:

brain body system is expressing that way.

550

:

There's a reason for it.

551

:

It's not wrong.

552

:

For some people, it's a,

a maladaptive condition.

553

:

And there are other elements to it.

554

:

But if we don't ask what is going

on in the bigger picture, certainly

555

:

with connections we're speaking to

now, then we're really missing the, I

556

:

think, the message in those situations.

557

:

And, yeah, amazing.

558

:

Thank you for sharing that.

559

:

That was really powerful.

560

:

And I too heard about that

shutting down of ticket offices.

561

:

And, yeah, the word

modernisation, it's very careful.

562

:

That doesn't mean it's better.

563

:

oh, it's modernising.

564

:

It's yeah, the modern world.

565

:

It doesn't mean it's a better world.

566

:

And, us...

567

:

Are rates of anxiety

and depression going up?

568

:

Are suicide rates going up?

569

:

Hmm.

570

:

Are we having issues with the

economy and the environment?

571

:

we know the answer to these questions.

572

:

They're pretty bleak.

573

:

And there's a reason for this.

574

:

Now, we can't solve all

the problems in one go.

575

:

But if one of the issues are

disconnection from other people,

576

:

the answer is quite simple.

577

:

Not necessarily easy, but simple.

578

:

It's reconnect with other And let's

look at how that might happen.

579

:

I want to speak to...

580

:

So some of my audience are...

581

:

like you said to, earlier in our, in

our conversation, they're surrounded

582

:

by lots of people and they have people

in their lives and they're busy and

583

:

probably successful to some degree and

yet have that gnawing feeling, that

584

:

feeling if you're in, you're on your own

for a minute in the shower or there's

585

:

something missing, there's something

wrong with me and I coach a lot of people

586

:

who do really well in many aspects,

but existentially there's a hole,

587

:

there's a problem and we go to that.

588

:

We're like, what is that?

589

:

And as you've already alluded to,

that if loneliness is, you're at

590

:

the top, you're, hey, look, you're a

CEO of your company, but it's lonely

591

:

at the top for a lot of people.

592

:

A lot of people don't challenge that.

593

:

And there's also a facade.

594

:

If you're a CEO or

founder, there's a facade.

595

:

People don't get to see the

real you, perhaps, because

596

:

that's just not how it works.

597

:

And I noticed that that's a.

598

:

Pernicious, slightly more subtle way

of people being lonely or isolated, and

599

:

yet they're in a busy room and they're

in a busy life, and yet they're empty.

600

:

And, and that's a really interesting one.

601

:

How would you speak to that person?

602

:

What might they be doing to change

their experience of loneliness, even

603

:

though they have physical people around?

604

:

What would you say in your, your

professional experience, what can they do?

605

:

April Baker: I think that's

such an important point you've

606

:

raised because often people get

alone, confused with loneliness.

607

:

And actually some people are alone.

608

:

And solitude is actually something

very positive and be, can be really an

609

:

amazing space to connect with yourself.

610

:

But then you'll have individuals

that are in this room ha look on

611

:

paper like they've got great social

health, but they just don't feel that.

612

:

And I think for me, the key.

613

:

message, and I can only speak really

of my own experience, as you said, of

614

:

being a CEO or being a senior leader

for many years, somebody who has

615

:

themselves struggled significantly with

loneliness, it has been, for me, about

616

:

meaning, what gives meaning to my life?

617

:

What is it that makes buzz?

618

:

What gives me flow?

619

:

What is it that I just love doing and

having that filtered out in parts of

620

:

your week so that you can come back to

that because a key point for me is when

621

:

I am going to these big events and, when

I am CEO at work, accountable to the

622

:

staff that I serve, accountable to the

board that I serve, sometimes I feel

623

:

like I've had to armor up or I feel

that there has to be a few shades of me.

624

:

And then you, you can move

away from your authentic self.

625

:

So we need ways, and I, and I really

recommend coaching, and speaking to

626

:

someone on this as well, we need ways

to come back to who we are, what gives

627

:

us meaning, so we're not the Fifty

Shades, maybe we're three shades of

628

:

ourselves, but we know who we are.

629

:

So I think that's what I've had

to think, how can I bring...

630

:

me to my work as much as possible.

631

:

So firstly, becoming a CEO

was never important to me.

632

:

The loneliness mission was.

633

:

So that's, because I'm, I'm

working for a cause I just

634

:

believe in, it's really helped my

wellbeing in many different ways.

635

:

also knowing, and it's very

interesting, you spoke about,

636

:

being introverted, knowing.

637

:

that it's okay to be an introverted

leader because I didn't know that.

638

:

I thought, you look at all leaders and

it's extroverted and I should love this.

639

:

I should love all these networking.

640

:

And I don't, I do it and I do it for

the cause because I'm passionate for

641

:

the cause, but I have to the next day

have a day free with no socializing.

642

:

So I do things a lot more like I go

to the cinema on my own quite a lot.

643

:

I go for walks on my own.

644

:

I go to the sea on my own because

I know that's where I find some I

645

:

also know what's important to me.

646

:

But I've, I've done work.

647

:

I've, I've always had a mentor,

that's important to say, and a coach.

648

:

And I believe so much in the power

of someone standing next to you,

649

:

holding that mirror and, and being

able to talk back to you, but that

650

:

you don't have to on your own.

651

:

You really, really don't.

652

:

So I think if you're feeling

like that, It's okay.

653

:

You need to find a way, whether that's

through journaling, whether that's

654

:

through coaching, whether that's

through, you can do some great strength,

655

:

free strength finders to look at

what your strengths are, values and

656

:

action, the VIA surveys, brilliant.

657

:

Oh, that's what I love.

658

:

I know I love learning.

659

:

So I'm always going to want to

be in a role that's learning.

660

:

Try and look at who, you have strengths.

661

:

Everyone has gifts and strengths.

662

:

Find those, find that part of you.

663

:

Thank you.

664

:

And that's what's going to bring you back

to yourselves in moments that sometimes

665

:

we have to perform or have to bring a

certain different self to a role, but you

666

:

don't want to be out in that all the time.

667

:

And I think for me in my loneliness,

when it was really bad and I may become

668

:

lonely again in life, but when it was

really bad, it's because I felt like I

669

:

was dipping into everyone else's life.

670

:

I feel I was performing at work

and I was like, where's April?

671

:

Who is April?

672

:

So that's for me what I feel.

673

:

Sal Jefferies: the term I use when I've

had that experience to some degree, not as

674

:

much as you, but it's I've lost my centre.

675

:

I've lost the centre of who I am

and, we, we are chameleon esque.

676

:

Humans are very good at chameleon

esque people and leaders and people

677

:

in their businesses are good.

678

:

It's great to be a salesperson, perhaps

the ambassador, maybe it's the front

679

:

of house, whatever it is you do.

680

:

And, and this sort of flexibility

itself is utterly natural.

681

:

And I think it's a great skill

set we should all master.

682

:

not at the expense of losing your centre.

683

:

It's like if you're not anchored to a

centre point of who you are at your core,

684

:

then we start to, we slip into patterns.

685

:

People know people

pleasing, imposter syndrome.

686

:

They're all built on very shaky

egos or very fragile egos, which

687

:

are actually not really egos.

688

:

They're conceptual egos, which

is a lot of work I do is to

689

:

break that ego, not healthily.

690

:

And let the real ego come

out, the real self come out.

691

:

It's, it's deep.

692

:

it reminds me of the old.

693

:

quote, or the existential

theory around bad faith.

694

:

If, I like a bit of existentialism.

695

:

Yeah.

696

:

And I've, as from positive psychology,

I trained with, one of the guys

697

:

who used to lead the course there.

698

:

brilliant guy.

699

:

we talk about bad faith in the

existential, that the example

700

:

is this, it's a very old one.

701

:

If there was a waiter, being all

gregarious and lovely and serving the,

702

:

serving the coffees and teas, and they

went home, was all miserable and downbeat.

703

:

They, they would call that as bad faith.

704

:

We might call it, in

modern terms, disingenuous.

705

:

I think there's something really important

about not losing your core centre,

706

:

even if you're a leader, whatever you

have to do, because if you've still

707

:

got those attributes, those qualities,

those strengths, they shine through.

708

:

How you apply those strengths is skill.

709

:

So if you are, passionate about what

you do, honest, trustworthy, don't take,

710

:

don't take any rubbish from people.

711

:

That can be your way of being, how you

deploy it can be skillful and elegant,

712

:

but if you start to not meet those honest,

authentic parts of you, I think that

713

:

starts to become in some ways an isolation

from our inner self and Little steep

714

:

into there's internal family systems.

715

:

There's a psychological principle model.

716

:

You might Psychosynthesis sort of

deals with this . We talk a lot about

717

:

the, the internal family, the parts

of ourselves, and, and when you do

718

:

the inner works, sometimes we have an

isolated part and those who've been

719

:

through therapy, you might know this,

those who, if you haven't had al therapy,

720

:

we often have a part of us, which we

don't like, or we've closed it down.

721

:

It could, it could be the Revel, it

could be the kid, it could either it's

722

:

one of these parts or it got shamed,

certainly in the male domain, which I

723

:

can speak to with my own experience.

724

:

is that part got shamed.

725

:

So that's not okay to

be that version of you.

726

:

You have to be, certainly the nonsense

I was growing up in, strong, masculine,

727

:

I'm a really sensitive individual.

728

:

I was like, no, that's

not going to cut it.

729

:

You have to be strong and tough and hard.

730

:

And, and, and so part of that softer,

gentle part of me got closed down for many

731

:

years until I did the work to let that

part be seen and also brought back in.

732

:

So that internal isolation and

loneliness can happen as well.

733

:

It's a more of a...

734

:

Deeper level of working, but I think

it's worth naming because it can be going

735

:

on for many people and that internal

It's like there's something wrong.

736

:

There's a dissonance within It needs

looking at because actually it's it's

737

:

an expression what often happens on the

outside That we April social health.

738

:

Let's let's get let's get practical

now Let's we've got our listeners

739

:

have lots and lots of understanding

and knowledge What are the pillars,

740

:

what are the pieces of social health?

741

:

So if someone's thinking, yeah,

you know what, this is exactly the

742

:

stuff I need to attend to right

now, that's what's going on for me.

743

:

What are the key things in social

health can we flag up and go,

744

:

these are the pieces that make it.

745

:

What would you say?

746

:

April Baker: So the first thing is

with social health is relationships.

747

:

So what I would suggest is looking at

your current relationships with people.

748

:

So I don't know if people are

aware of, Dunbar's rule of the 150.

749

:

people, which is actually shown through

anthropology that that's our limit.

750

:

Actually, the hundreds of thousands of

followers, it's not going to happen.

751

:

So firstly, it's okay to only

have a few people in your life.

752

:

Maximum of people you can actually

connect with, they say, is about 150.

753

:

But what's key is, think about those

individuals that are important to

754

:

you in your life, that when you're

with them, they give you energy.

755

:

Note those individuals down.

756

:

Think about those people that

you like an activity with.

757

:

You go and do an activity.

758

:

Note those people down and think

about how much time you're spending

759

:

with those individuals or how much

timing instead of spending with those

760

:

individuals, you're scrolling on your

phone or you're working overtime.

761

:

So I would just do a bit of a summary of.

762

:

These are the people that give me energy.

763

:

It could be one or two as well.

764

:

And it may be at this moment you're

not sure, which then that's telling

765

:

you I want to find those people.

766

:

That's okay as well.

767

:

You can start to find these people.

768

:

So you want to build up a network of

people that you know in your hardest

769

:

moments you would be wanting to call on.

770

:

And that takes time, I've got to say as

well, but just key is people that like

771

:

what you like, and you're going to go

and do stuff together, like one of my

772

:

friends, when they moved to Brighton, they

didn't know many people, they knew myself,

773

:

they didn't know many people, they loved

volleyball, so they joined volleyball,

774

:

they've now got a massive network of

friendships, and it's fantastic, and

775

:

friends are meeting friends, so that's

the first thing, I would say, is do that,

776

:

start building that up, and just in your

week, just like we do with mental health,

777

:

where we go, I'm going to do mindfulness,

Physical health, I'm going to go to

778

:

the gym, social health, I'm going to

see Joe because Joe and me have a great

779

:

giggle and I've had a really tough week

and I'm going to commit, I'm not going

780

:

to work late, so you add that bit in.

781

:

The other thing I would say is

don't overlook kindness and giving.

782

:

So every day you have an opportunity

to increase your well being by

783

:

doing really small acts of kindness

throughout the day, giving to others.

784

:

So that could be, get off your

phone, look up on the bus and smile

785

:

at the person in front of you.

786

:

You see someone struggling with their

shopping and they live three doors down,

787

:

pick up that shopping, carry it for them.

788

:

I promise you, that will help

you just as much, if not more

789

:

than the person you're helping.

790

:

You can take that help further as well.

791

:

And actually, things like volunteering,

and I know I'm obviously going to speak

792

:

about this because of being charity

CEO, but I cannot tell you the amount of

793

:

corporates that bring their teams to our

social events and the teams afterwards say

794

:

it's one of the most amazing experiences

they've had because they get to give

795

:

back to their local community, they

get to have conversations with people

796

:

they never usually get to meet, and so

volunteering really is an incredible

797

:

way to help your own well being.

798

:

It doesn't have to be massive.

799

:

It doesn't have to be long term.

800

:

It could be, okay, I'm going

to go and do this fundraiser.

801

:

I'm going to go and do one

event for this charity.

802

:

Think about a cause.

803

:

We talked about meaning.

804

:

What gives you meaning?

805

:

What has helped you in your life?

806

:

So obviously, as you can tell, for

me, loneliness is important for me.

807

:

for my, Dad, um, his sister, got early

onset dementia, so he does a lot of

808

:

work supporting, dementia research.

809

:

the real, there will be, that will give

you meaning, because it's something that's

810

:

important to you, but also, you're giving.

811

:

And, thinking about this the other

day, actually, I took a picture

812

:

in a, a local bookshop I went

into for the self help section.

813

:

Massive self help section.

814

:

And I was like, one day,

wouldn't it be amazing that

815

:

there's a help others section?

816

:

Because, and you spoke about this really

well earlier, Sal, about the individual

817

:

being prioritised, which obviously is

important, but actually, helping your

818

:

community, helping one another, needs to

be equally prioritised, because that's

819

:

what's going to help you feel Thank you.

820

:

more grounded, more connected, that's

going to help you recognise what you love.

821

:

But also those daily acts of

kindness, just like your daily acts

822

:

of gratitude, really are powerful.

823

:

They increase your positive emotion.

824

:

They're just as powerful as

going for a run, in the gym,

825

:

which is really equally as good.

826

:

But we must start thinking of

these other social aspects as well.

827

:

Sal Jefferies: Really, really nice.

828

:

Absolutely amazing.

829

:

We're going to capture those and put those

points in the show notes for everyone.

830

:

amazing.

831

:

what struck me when you said there

about, yes, we're individuals,

832

:

that's what I coach with.

833

:

Here's the thing, we're also the other.

834

:

I'm the other to you, or to a

person who passes me on the bus, or

835

:

on the street, or whatever it is.

836

:

So we're actually the other anyway.

837

:

We forget that.

838

:

We are the other, as

well as the individual.

839

:

So when we realise that, we

realise that, actually we're both.

840

:

And I think that...

841

:

Hopefully you can break down

the barriers a little bit, the

842

:

psychological barriers about oh,

should I do this, should I do this?

843

:

No, you're the other.

844

:

It's okay, because what if someone helped

you if you, I don't know, had a shoulder

845

:

injury and you couldn't carry your bag?

846

:

Someone said, oh, do you want a hand?

847

:

Oh, thanks, lovely.

848

:

amazing.

849

:

Really, really cool.

850

:

Last, I really want to just capture

some clear things on what Together

851

:

Code do, because it's really important.

852

:

You've got some great programming,

and it also will help encapsulate

853

:

for everyone listening, what's...

854

:

You do as a profession,

what you know works.

855

:

What, tell me a little bit, just

a little, the pricey of your, you

856

:

guys, what you do in your programs.

857

:

April Baker: Fantastic.

858

:

Yes.

859

:

So Together Co, as we spoke

about, it's a loneliness charity

860

:

based in Brighton and Hove.

861

:

So it's all about developing

your social health.

862

:

We have two main programs.

863

:

The first one is social prescribing.

864

:

And this is something really important

just to touch on actually, is National,

865

:

program and you can go to your GP or you

might find us in job centers and basically

866

:

it's a professional called a link worker

that will help you around ways to connect.

867

:

So it might be connecting with some

financial advice or housing advice,

868

:

but also it might be ways you want

to connect in your local community.

869

:

You might be a newcomer to the city.

870

:

So we oversee social prescribing.

871

:

So wherever you live in the UK,

you can look up social prescribing

872

:

and also you can go to your GP

and talk about that as well.

873

:

The other part is befriending.

874

:

And so I talk about with volunteers.

875

:

So we match people across the city

in neighbourhoods to become friends.

876

:

And I cannot tell you the

amount of beautiful stories of.

877

:

people needing people and that people

are just wanting to be together.

878

:

But also, if it wasn't for TogetherCo,

which has been going for 20 years,

879

:

way before, I came on board, those

friendships wouldn't have happened.

880

:

And some of those

friendships last a lifetime.

881

:

And because of that, people at the end,

so dying well is as important as living

882

:

well, people have a friend at the end.

883

:

And if TogetherCo hadn't matched

them, they wouldn't have had anybody.

884

:

this is powerful.

885

:

everybody deserves somebody.

886

:

We come, we don't come into

this world fully alone.

887

:

Our wonderful mothers bring us

into this world and we shouldn't

888

:

go out on our own as well.

889

:

And then sadly, People do.

890

:

So that's something very, very important

to us and something we've been delivering,

891

:

like I said, for many, many years.

892

:

But we need more volunteers

and we also just have a whole

893

:

range of volunteer programs.

894

:

So anyone that wants to get

involved, we don't say no.

895

:

We say, come on board, what's your skills?

896

:

How do you wanna get involved?

897

:

Because then they build up networks.

898

:

'cause we have volunteer events,

so they become friends as well.

899

:

So that's a range of,

of what we do, locally.

900

:

There is other, so if anyone's.

901

:

thinking, wow, okay, but

I don't live in Sussex.

902

:

There's lots of other fantastic

loneliness charities across the uk.

903

:

You've got the Joe Cox Foundation

in London, you've got the

904

:

Marmalade Trust in Bristol.

905

:

so there's lots of others as well.

906

:

Age, UKs across the country do a lot

of, uh, working with older people.

907

:

But what I would just wanna

stress as well, that loneliness

908

:

is not an older person It affects.

909

:

All of us have many points of our lives.

910

:

Young people are really

affected by it right now.

911

:

There's a brilliant co op foundation

program called Lonely Not Alone.

912

:

Really, if you've got, children, I

recommend going and just being mindful

913

:

of that and what that might be happening

for your children around loneliness.

914

:

It can affect people who

are newcomers to cities.

915

:

It's affecting men that we've

talked, you've spoken about with,

916

:

the connection and being able to

reach out sadly high suicide rates.

917

:

New mothers.

918

:

Seriously affected as well.

919

:

So it isn't just, Oh,

it's an old person thing.

920

:

I don't need to worry about it.

921

:

Actually, it can affect us all.

922

:

Like I've spoken about, it affected me

in my early twenties and it may do again.

923

:

So lots of options.

924

:

I hope that explained quite

well a range of what we do, but

925

:

also I'm just very passionate.

926

:

Wherever you are, go and have a research

about ways you can connect locally

927

:

as well.

928

:

Sal Jefferies: Brilliant, thank you

for sharing and we will of course

929

:

put your show note, in the show

notes, details to, to learn more,

930

:

to, to see it together, code, all

the programs that will go in there.

931

:

yeah, I'm really struck, because

we, we, we, we had a, an initial

932

:

conversation before this and.

933

:

The feeling of loneliness.

934

:

It's so easy in a busy world to not think

about social health and to get caught

935

:

up running a business, super busy, maybe

you're a parent and then it's when you

936

:

sit down that, that uncomfortable feeling,

there's something up and disconnection

937

:

wherever it is, between your mind and

your body, between you and your family,

938

:

between us and our community and I

see between us and the environment.

939

:

If we can reconnect, good things happen.

940

:

a really powerful subject.

941

:

Thanks.

942

:

I am so thankful for you

sharing your experience, but

943

:

personally, professionally,

it's really fascinating to hear.

944

:

Thank you, April.

945

:

And of course, let's meet up for

a cup of coffee in real life.

946

:

April Baker: Yes, let's do it.

947

:

Social health.

948

:

Sal Jefferies: health.

949

:

So my dear listeners, I trust

there is many, many things

950

:

that you've got from that.

951

:

But if there's one thing you can

take from it, action is traction.

952

:

So if there's something going on for

you, whether it's you want to find out

953

:

about volunteering, whether you want to

solve your own challenges, or a friend's,

954

:

whatever it might be, take action.

955

:

Action means change.

956

:

until the next time, take care.

957

:

Thank you so much for listening.

958

:

If you enjoyed the episode,

please subscribe and if a friend

959

:

would benefit from hearing this,

do send it on to them as well.

960

:

If you would like to get in touch

yourself, then you can go to my website,

961

:

which is sal jeffries.com, spelled S

A L J E F E R I E s sal jeffries.com.

962

:

Hit the get in touch link and there

you can send me a direct message.

963

:

If you'd like to go one step further

and learn whether coaching could help

964

:

you overcome a challenge or a block

in your life, then do reach out and

965

:

I offer a call where we can discuss

how this may be able to help you.

966

:

Until the next time, take care.

Show artwork for Mindset, Mood & Movement

About the Podcast

Mindset, Mood & Movement
Human performance podcast for life and business
Feeling stuck, stressed and exhausted is bad for you, your health and your business. But it doesn’t have to be like this.

Sal Jefferies is a coach who helps founders overcome anxiety, build confidence and become healthy. This podcast will help you feel calm, confident and strong in life and business.

Sal has a unique coaching philosophy which integrates psychology, emotional regulation and embodied action. This podcast aims to share knowledge, skill and strategies from these 3 interwoven areas - mindset, mood & movement.

Each fortnight, Sal will be in conversation with a guest from a specialist field of human performance and behaviour. The week in between will be Sal's own shorter episode where he's goes deep into various topics - all created to give you the tools to become calm, confident & strong.


About your host

Profile picture for Sal Jefferies

Sal Jefferies

I believe in helping people become free - free of anxiety; to be authentic; to not worry of what others think of you. Free to create, to love and free to be calm, confident and strong.

I understand what it’s like to find life difficult, to deal with challenges and to feel lost; that’s why I over the last 15 years I have immersed myself in yoga, psychology and human behaviour. I have been on a journey of deep change and growth and I know at the core of most life choices is the desire for freedom and peace. I work with people who think deeply and feel deeply and looking to change, evolve and grow.

I don’t take myself too seriously and I bring a light and positive energy to my work. When I’m not coaching, I love reading and learning about anything to do with the human experience. I am also super active and movement is a big part of my life - running, swimming, strength training, doing yoga or enjoying being out with my dogs.