Overcoming Loneliness and Isolation by Strengthening Your Social Health with April Baker

Sal Jefferies: 00:00:25

Hello and welcome.

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Do you feel lonely and isolated sometimes?

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By strengthening your social

health, you can improve your

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physical and mental health too.

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Now this is a really, really important

topic, which I'm delighted to have

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April Baker from Together Co, which

is a loneliness charity, join me.

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Together is a specialist in this

field, does amazing work around

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people, social health and loneliness.

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And loneliness and isolation is something

that we all experience, whether we perhaps

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in a personal space, maybe you're a leader

or a founder, it's lonely at the time.

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Loneliness can touch anyone and

it can have profound effects.

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So I'm delighted to welcome April and

we're going to share with you a lot of

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thoughts and understanding and things

that you can do to deal if you're

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dealing with loneliness and isolation.

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April, welcome!

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April Baker: It's great to be here

and talking all things social health.

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excited.

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Sal Jefferies: Good

stuff, lovely to have you.

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In terms of definition, words

are powerful and sometimes words

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can be, interpreted differently.

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I'd like to talk to the three things of

isolation, loneliness, and social health.

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So what's your definition of isolation?

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April Baker: Yeah, so I think for

me, loneliness and isolation can be

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mixed together and used together where

people think it's the same thing.

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So isolation is objective

part of loneliness.

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So isolation is you are unable to

leave the house because of, let's

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say, a physical health condition,

or we have become isolated because

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of a pandemic and we're locked down.

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So we are isolated.

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So that's the objective part.

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Loneliness.

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Now that is subjective.

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That's something we feel and, and that's

got many layers to it and probably

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a lot more connotation and when you

pitch a loneliness for me, I picture

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older, older person, on their own

living on their own kind of, I always

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think when I'm thinking of loneliness,

Eleanor Rigby plays in my mind, that

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that song comes up was actually,

and I still think that even though I

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have been lonely as a young person.

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So loneliness, it's a feeling.

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And there's different forms of loneliness.

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So it's around a

disconnection from something.

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So it could be a

disconnection from yourself.

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So you just don't get yourself,

you don't know who you are.

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So it's quite existential in that regards.

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But also there's a

loneliness of not belonging.

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So you're not belonging to the

job that you go to every maybe

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the wider community and network.

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It's a real felt thing that One person

that has been a supporter of for many

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years and also used to access our

services beautifully described it,

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where they said, I feel homesick, but

I don't know where my home And that

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for me was like, yes, that is it.

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That is how you feel.

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It can be very stigmatizing.

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To admit I am lonely.

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And so that's the key differences for me.

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I would say you've got

isolation, loneliness.

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Someone can become lonely because

of their isolation, but you could be

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lonely in a room full of people and

look like you've got loads of friends,

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but you just don't feel connected.

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And so I think that's more what

people feel and go, what is this?

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Because I've got loads of friends and I'm

in this room with 400 people and I've got

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a thousand friends on my social media.

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Yeah.

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That's the loneliness that feels

different, I think people, feel, but

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they don't know what that is, and I

think more people need to understand,

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that's because you're a social being,

and something is not quite connected

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for you, that you need to, to find.

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Sal Jefferies: Lovely,

really eloquent and powerful.

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I really struck me your

descriptions there.

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Thank you.

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I know you work with us in depth and

what you said there about Being social

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beings, of course we are, we're hardwired,

humans are powerful as a social species.

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We're, we're quite fragile as a, as a,

as an animal compared to say, a lion

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or a tiger, those powerful number.

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We're very clever as a group and of

course we, we now dominate the earth.

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So we, we work as groups and

we work well as groups and

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we're hardwired for grouping.

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There's a whole lots of things

in the brain, such as mirror

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neurons, to have empathy.

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There's these things that

we very much know now.

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One thing that really struck me is that...

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That perhaps illusion that may be going on

for some people where you've got friends,

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a big social media following, you could

be successful in all these, what seem

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apparently, outwardly good, appearances.

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And yet on the inside, there may

be this loneliness, this sort of

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emptiness, this calling for home and

you don't know what's going on with me.

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And I have a lot of clients that

come in and try and figure out stuff.

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So they're very clever and try and

cognize and think through problems.

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And it's not a thinking problem,

it's a feeling problem as such, as

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an emotional issue or as a disconnect

and that really struck from when

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you said that and for, for, for our

listeners, I think if that lands for

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you, then it's, it's let's name this.

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It's one of the most

empowerful things, right?

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Naming what's going on.

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Then you can work with it.

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Wonderful social health.

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Now you and I have spoken about this.

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It's something that we're going to

go into, into some, some depth here.

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Please describe your

interpretation of social health.

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April Baker: bit of a journey has, has

happened with, TogetherCo, starting to

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talk more about social really going years.

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And if I first just start by saying that

loneliness can be the negative aspect

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of it so you don't feel like you belong.

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So there's loneliness and people

talk about an For us, we're trying

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to recognise that human beings have

different parts and all those parts

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need to be working well, which will

equate to being and us to thrive.

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So we want to work at what's right

with us and normalise this feeling.

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social health.

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is about your relationships.

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So your network of relationships,

the importance of relationships and

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connections, like I was saying before,

your social health with your close five.

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And then, which might be, you have

three or four very close networks.

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You then may have your local

community, friends, and it's,

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what's that looking like?

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And we have to put social health

into the conversations alongside

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physical health and mental health.

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So we've got physical.

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Health.

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We talk a lot about that.

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We are now talking much more about

our mental health, have social

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We are social beings and those

three combined equals well being.

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Don't miss the social health.

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I think it's the missing part And I think

now more than ever from the pandemic

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that we've all been through collectively

together, this must start being spoken

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about more because through many studies,

what is shown about The key to the good

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life is It's your So that's where we're

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Sal Jefferies: Thank you.

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Yes, really, again, eloquent,

lovely, very succinct.

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and as you know, for my regular listeners,

that my entire philosophy is based

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on an ecosystem of the individual,

how our mind works, our emotional

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mind or body and our physical body.

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And if we only attend to one, we're

missing out on, on the, on the other.

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So you might exercise a lot, but may

not deal with your emotional challenges.

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You may go to a psychotherapist or a coach

and do your mind stuff but if you're not

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moving, and you're getting your body in

a good place, you're missing out on how

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the whole system works as an ecosystem.

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But of course, we are a

system within a system.

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No person works alone.

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It doesn't work like that.

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And we know that.

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We've got family.

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It's just how it actually is.

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It's basic science, right?

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And of course, it's very easy in

our atomized, particularly our

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western culture, our very modern

life that, We are individuals.

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The individual is highly prized.

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it's a big thing and it's a great thing.

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But if it's highly prized at the extent

of I am separate from the other, it's

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this disconnection, this sort of sneaky

problem I see in coming up on one guy or

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another and disconnection is a problem.

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And as you've alluded to,

social health is, it's, it's,

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it's blooming obvious, right?

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It's really obvious.

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It's nice to have some friends.

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It's nice to get on with your family.

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It's good to have some co workers.

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And it's tough when you

either don't get on with those

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people, or you don't have them.

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yeah.

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And I think when we term something

as social health, and then

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add to it, okay, we need this.

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It's not a nice thing.

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Just, keep working your 50 hour

week and, no, we work as a system.

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We're a system within a system.

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How can that work well?

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So that's beautiful.

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April, I'd love to learn a little bit

more about how you got into the field of

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working with social health and loneliness.

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And how did, how did this come to you?

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What, what brought you into

this space in the world?

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April Baker: I think there's

that led me to where I am.

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where I'm, as you can probably

tell, very passionate about talking

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about loneliness and social health.

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The first thing for me is I was raised as

an So I grew up with, mum, dad and myself.

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And from that I had a fascination with

larger families and groups of people.

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And actually, one of my earliest memories

is as a little girl, I used to, so we

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had a Victorian house and I used to,

all the gardens were interconnected

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and I used to cycle up and down the

gardens of these little Victorian houses.

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And there was a few older people up.

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on that road that lived on their own.

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And I used to go in and have a cup of

tea and then try to invite them back.

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So there was something from a very little

girl going, why are they on their own?

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No one should be on their own.

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And my mum is from Ireland.

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She's from Cork.

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My mum is one of 14.

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So I went through, going from

England, me, mum, dad, my family

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around us to Ireland, massive family.

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And so there was this fascination.

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What's going on?

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What's going on?

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Then I went to work in, different

areas within the charity sector.

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So I previously ran services,

including hostels for people

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experiencing homelessness.

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I also ran care homes for people

with mental, health issues.

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And from all of the services

I've ever managed or worked in,

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people just wanted to belong.

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So we'd na we would also

label people homeless.

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mental health.

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They're just people and

they want to belong.

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And some of the most powerful ways that

they got better was through feeling like

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they were connected to something more

than their condition or their experience.

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So that I think started this

journey for me and this interest.

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Then I previously studied

psychology and I'm now studying a

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master's in positive psychology.

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So I got this fascination

with what's right with us.

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How do we thrive?

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what makes us well.

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And every single model that you look at

in well being, in positive psychology, one

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aspect of it is relationships, connection.

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All of this combined made me

realise the importance of what I

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now have said is social health, but

of connection, of social beings.

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And then, as I came to this realisation,

this role came up at TogetherCo, and

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suddenly I found This charity in Brighton

and Hove that for 20, over 20 years

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has been doing exactly that, has been

waving the flag saying people need

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each other, we need to bring people

together, please don't forget that.

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And I was lucky enough to

become their CEO a year ago.

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So I think it's all been

building towards this.

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Sal Jefferies: Wow.

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Wow.

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And so interesting to hear that

as a single child, my niece,

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she's a single child and of

course I grew up with a sister.

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So when you look at these differences

and see what it's like, yeah, these

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things do influence us, our experience.

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It's very, very striking what you

said there about, not the label,

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not the homeless person, but the

condition it's, it, we get caught

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up in labels and, we use labels.

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It's how we make sense of the world.

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I think the problem we have with

labels in today's culture is that we,

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we are over labeled and we use things

like, people say to me, I've got

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anxiety or I've got this, got that.

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And while there is some truth in it, I

think the problem I have with labels is

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that we have to be careful that it doesn't

become a prison that we're stuck in.

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And it's One of the reasons I call

it out is because our brain is

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a predictive processing machine.

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some would say.

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Andy Clark of the Professor of

Cognitive Philosophy at Sussex

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would say in his amazing book.

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And if our mind is a prediction

machine and we're thinking we are,

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I'm a homeless person, I'm a lonely

person, people don't love me.

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We've, this, this Bias is our

behaviour and this is the work I do

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with psychologists to go into the

mind and look at what are our biases?

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How do we label ourselves?

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Because actually some of that can

predicate actions and behaviour

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which might lead to loneliness

or might lead to isolation.

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So it's a really important thing about

from the outside and from the inside,

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watching these descriptions, watching

these identity types and labels and

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being careful not to be trapped by them.

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and at the same time using them

for good measure to understand.

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So it needs this, both and approach I

find, which is really, really important.

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Now being alone, I've worked for myself

for a long time and I'm generally,

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to use a label, I'm, I'm an introvert

or I have an introverted nature.

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Most of the time will be accurate, right?

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So I love being around people,

but I can only do so much.

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And then I come back to

my space and re, regroup.

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I was curious because I never was

like this before the pandemic.

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literally I have changed

in quite a lot of ways.

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I don't know, various things

to do with the pandemic.

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I, I was, I had COVID very badly.

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I was out for a month and literally

nearly wiped me out, which is surprising

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because I'm generally quite fit and

and it just absolutely knocked me.

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But for whatever reason, this is

how I am now and, and I'm okay with

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it and I understand what I need.

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But the pandemic was a destroyer for

some people, some people I know, older

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people, they were going out, let's

say a little bit of shopping, catching

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up with some friends here and there.

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Soon as that was taken away,

their mobility went right down,

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their movement went right down,

their health often collapsed.

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And it's so sad, certainly for an

older generation who have to move.

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And, and I see lots of problems

that have come out of the pandemic.

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What if, what's your experience,

certainly with the work that you're

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doing, both professionally, personally,

since the pandemic, what's this, what

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has changed for us around how we act and

how loneliness and isolation has, has

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perhaps it's pulled us in, hasn't it?

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we were imprisoned many ways, locked

in, I would actually say it's locked up.

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it felt like that to me.

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I'd be, I was told I could not do stuff,

which is an imprisonment of sorts.

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And of course we've come out of

it, but there's a collective.

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Trauma, or there's a collective

echo of this still going around.

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Tell me more from your side.

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What are you seeing with this?

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April Baker: agree

around collective trauma.

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And I think for so many people it

depends on how they entered the pandemic.

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Did they become unwell?

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for instance, with the earlier cases of

COVID, and I'm really sorry to hear how

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unwell you were as well with that, and

then what is our opportunity coming out?

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So what we have experienced at

TogetherCo is a much higher level of,

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anxiety and agoraphobia as the reasons

people are being referred to us.

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So people that have, and I can

just say in terms of even my own

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friendship groups actually, people

that have never experienced anxiety.

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what that feels like, or being

fearful to go out and about.

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Suddenly have experienced that

because we got told stay in.

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It's very, very hard to go back out.

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So that's the first thing I

would say we're experiencing.

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The other thing to say is that before

we went into the, lockdowns, there was

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already people that were very isolated and

very lonely and now they are chronically.

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isolated and lonely because, as you

were saying, that one person that

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would come once a week to take them

out was that one bit of movement, that

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one, and actually, if we do not have

that, we decline very, very quickly.

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The thing I haven't mentioned around

loneliness is a really powerful piece of

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research has shown that loneliness is as

bad for us as smoking 15 cigarettes a day.

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It really is a killer.

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if people don't get that

once a week contact.

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Sometimes it might have

only been once a month.

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Someone who actually physically

comes, sees that person and takes

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them out, the decline is significant.

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So actually, people that were lonely

becoming chronically lonely as well.

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And then I think there's some

that, what I've noticed is They're

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trying to now be really busy

again and not coping with that.

310

: 00:18:01

So they're like, oh my gosh I've lost

two years of my life and I've got to

311

: 00:18:07

hurry up So we've come back out and

we had a slower pace and now we're

312

: 00:18:12

trying to be as busy as we once were or

more Busy and so you hear how are you?

313

: 00:18:17

I'm really busy I'm tired, I have to

book to see some of my friends five

314

: 00:18:22

months in advance and that's too

much and then people are Needing,

315

: 00:18:28

oh, there's something wrong with me

and I need to go and talk to someone.

316

: 00:18:30

It's like we're just going too

fast back out of it because

317

: 00:18:34

we're like, hurry up, hurry up.

318

: 00:18:35

Because I think there's that fear

of, okay, this could happen again.

319

: 00:18:39

we could be locked down again.

320

: 00:18:40

I could, have my time limited again.

321

: 00:18:43

So I think it really depends on

what came into the pandemic, what

322

: 00:18:48

your situation was in the pandemic,

and how you're coming out of it.

323

: 00:18:52

And I also don't think for the next few

years we are going to realize or see.

324

: 00:18:57

The impact until we start seeing

the younger generations growing up.

325

: 00:19:03

And a another sort of piece of

information that I have on that is

326

: 00:19:07

I've been speaking to a university and

they were having retention issues with

327

: 00:19:11

students staying, and those students.

328

: 00:19:15

didn't have 15, 16, 17, going out and

about knowing their own boundaries.

329

: 00:19:21

And suddenly they've come out

of the pandemic, go straight to

330

: 00:19:24

halls of residence at university.

331

: 00:19:26

And they're asking some of the site

managers, Oh, is it okay if I go out?

332

: 00:19:30

Can I do that?

333

: 00:19:31

They don't actually know because they

didn't have those really formative

334

: 00:19:34

years kind of learn those things and

go through GCSEs and school together.

335

: 00:19:40

And I don't even, if you then think of all

the years prior to that, the generations,

336

: 00:19:44

so there is going to be some impact, there

is going to be some impact, definitely.

337

: 00:19:49

And that's why, even more so, I'm

saying social health, because also,

338

: 00:19:54

it's learning how to be a social being.

339

: 00:19:59

And for some people, that they may need

to learn how to do that, and some of,

340

: 00:20:05

some people, are different to others

in terms of maybe neurodiversity.

341

: 00:20:09

So you've got to learn to find your

tribe, but know that you belong somewhere.

342

: 00:20:13

Everyone belongs somewhere, but we've

got to do more and be more aware now that

343

: 00:20:18

that's going to be an issue longer term.

344

: 00:20:20

Social media is not the solution as well.

345

: 00:20:24

That's not real connection.

346

: 00:20:26

So that, that's what I would say

in terms of what we're seeing and

347

: 00:20:28

what I've experienced as well.

348

: 00:20:30

Sal Jefferies: that's really interesting.

349

: 00:20:32

Some of the clients I have seen since

the pandemic definitely have shown

350

: 00:20:36

that the magnification, or let's call

it the amplification, of what's going

351

: 00:20:40

on for them, whether it's heightened

anxiety, overly, I work with a lot

352

: 00:20:43

of people who are highly responsive.

353

: 00:20:46

We used to use the word highly

sensitive, and I used to use that

354

: 00:20:48

term myself, but I think a more

accurate term without the labels,

355

: 00:20:52

certainly as a man of my generation,

sensitive and shame go together.

356

: 00:20:56

guys who are listening

who are 40 plus, right?

357

: 00:20:58

Sensitive is normal, but actually

from a neurological point of

358

: 00:21:02

view, we are highly responsive.

359

: 00:21:03

we're very, very aware of feelings and

thoughts and all sorts of activities.

360

: 00:21:08

We have extra reception,

which is awareness of what's

361

: 00:21:10

around us, inter reception.

362

: 00:21:12

What's happening in your body and

the higher responsiveness you have

363

: 00:21:15

with that is the more you feel,

which put a pandemic in, put a world

364

: 00:21:20

changing, threat of, imminent danger.

365

: 00:21:23

You're just going to amp that up.

366

: 00:21:24

And a lot of people come from, certainly

to my space with a lot of this sort

367

: 00:21:29

of amplification of their patterns.

368

: 00:21:31

and thankfully they come to

do the work and change them.

369

: 00:21:33

So that's a good thing.

370

: 00:21:34

But yes, I think for, for those who's

listening, if you've come out of this and

371

: 00:21:38

you haven't looked at what's happened.

372

: 00:21:40

Questions, as you said,

April, how did you go in?

373

: 00:21:43

What did you go in with?

374

: 00:21:44

Because that might have got

amplified and it may need some work.

375

: 00:21:47

It might be work with family, it

might be work with a therapist.

376

: 00:21:51

It might need simply

naming and writing it down.

377

: 00:21:53

ah, this is what's going on for me.

378

: 00:21:55

Because the naming and understanding

is part of the solution always.

379

: 00:21:59

Now I'd like to speak to the, the issue of

social media and the issue of connection.

380

: 00:22:03

Now, I'm, I'm of a generation

where computers came in roughly

381

: 00:22:07

when I was, I don't know what,

teenage, something like that.

382

: 00:22:09

So I'm really old, although I'm going to

live for a long time because of the way I

383

: 00:22:13

live, but, today's world is, is predicated

and built on social media and connections.

384

: 00:22:17

And it's great.

385

: 00:22:18

I love my phone.

386

: 00:22:19

I love all the tech that gives

us lots of opportunities.

387

: 00:22:21

I think the issue that we have is,

is that if we are a lonely person

388

: 00:22:26

and it's not comfortable to be in a

group, hence if I'm out, out for a

389

: 00:22:31

drink or out for some food, If a group

of people, two people at a table, and

390

: 00:22:36

someone goes to use the bathroom, the

other person can't not use their phone.

391

: 00:22:41

If that's you, then, we all

do it to some degree . And I

392

: 00:22:43

find it absolutely fascinating.

393

: 00:22:44

We just knee jerk towards that addiction.

394

: 00:22:46

like a smoker reaches for the cigarette.

395

: 00:22:48

It's exactly the same.

396

: 00:22:49

Addiction's addiction.

397

: 00:22:51

And it needs to be named.

398

: 00:22:52

But as you rightly said, there

can be this, let's say, veneer of

399

: 00:22:56

connection, which could be, thousands

of Facebook friends or whatever.

400

: 00:23:00

When actually human contact now is,

is probably less and absolutely more

401

: 00:23:06

required and more needed to solve this

challenge of like, I feel alone or I

402

: 00:23:10

feel lonely, And I think there's an

easy out to use a phone or piece of tech

403

: 00:23:15

to go, Oh, on WhatsApp or on TikTok or

whatever it is that you're playing with.

404

: 00:23:19

Rather than meet that, probably

that existential angst, which

405

: 00:23:23

is, I feel really uncomfortable.

406

: 00:23:25

Yeah, and I think it needs naming, and

I'm a big fan of naming stuff, because

407

: 00:23:28

once we name it, it's not a shame.

408

: 00:23:30

But if you're feeling massively

uncomfortable, in my experience,

409

: 00:23:33

that feeling of loneliness is a tell.

410

: 00:23:36

all emotions have a reason.

411

: 00:23:37

It's a tell that, yes, you're

disconnected, or you need

412

: 00:23:40

to reconnect with somebody.

413

: 00:23:42

And I think that's a really important

thing for those of us who are a little

414

: 00:23:46

more biased towards tech for connection.

415

: 00:23:49

than we are going out for a coffee

with a friend or, talking to a

416

: 00:23:53

colleague and maybe, going out

for some food or, or going to some

417

: 00:23:55

sport together, something like that.

418

: 00:23:57

What are you doing with your, certainly

with your work and with TogetherCode

419

: 00:24:00

to, to address that very challenge?

420

: 00:24:04

April Baker: So I think for me, what

I wanted to start with, as well as

421

: 00:24:07

I will come to what we are looking

and seeing at with TogetherCo,

422

: 00:24:11

is something I haven't mentioned

yet, is my own loneliness journey.

423

: 00:24:17

So I was in my 20s.

424

: 00:24:21

Living in London, and I'd moved up there

for work, with a relationship that broke

425

: 00:24:27

down within the first year, going to work

every day, trying to, climb up the career

426

: 00:24:32

ladder, also during that time I'd had a

bereavement, so one of my close friends

427

: 00:24:37

had sadly died, so there was a lot going

on, but what I didn't realise, which

428

: 00:24:42

I know now, and I wish I'd known, was

actually the main thing that was going on

429

: 00:24:47

for me, was, disconnection from people.

430

: 00:24:53

So what you were saying about, if you

looked at my Facebook, because that's

431

: 00:24:57

what I used back then, because it's my

Facebook at the time for TikTok, I looked

432

: 00:25:03

like I was having the time of my life.

433

: 00:25:05

I had.

434

: 00:25:05

Loads of friends and, you know, atting

people and going to these parties

435

: 00:25:11

and, Oh look, I've just been promoted.

436

: 00:25:14

But actually, I was living in a part of

London where I, I didn't know anybody.

437

: 00:25:19

Up my road, I didn't know my

neighbours, I didn't know the

438

: 00:25:22

people I was house sharing with.

439

: 00:25:24

I had to travel across London

to see anyone at a weekend.

440

: 00:25:27

I remember some weekends

where I had no plans.

441

: 00:25:30

where I would literally go and

get my nails done or my hair done.

442

: 00:25:34

And again, that's a privileged position.

443

: 00:25:35

I could do that, so I'm very

mindful of my privilege within that.

444

: 00:25:39

But that was just to connect,

to have a conversation.

445

: 00:25:42

And for me, it took the realisation,

I'll never forget the moment, I was

446

: 00:25:47

on a train back from Dorset where

my family lived after Christmas.

447

: 00:25:52

And I was going back to London,

going to, go back to work,

448

: 00:25:55

go back to the shared living.

449

: 00:25:56

And I said, enough's enough.

450

: 00:25:58

And actually, what I had to

do is go What's going on?

451

: 00:26:03

And I really had to look inside

myself to be like, What am I missing?

452

: 00:26:06

And that's why I said, What am I missing?

453

: 00:26:08

What am I missing?

454

: 00:26:08

Because all the lead up to that was,

I'd been diagnosed with depression.

455

: 00:26:12

I had been diagnosed with, panic disorder.

456

: 00:26:15

I was going to therapy, but there was

something else that was not working.

457

: 00:26:19

The biggest thing that wasn't

working was where I was living

458

: 00:26:23

and not knowing anybody.

459

: 00:26:25

That started my journey back to Sussex.

460

: 00:26:28

And back to Brighton, because I also

realised through that journalling,

461

: 00:26:32

which was really powerful for

me during that time, I realised

462

: 00:26:34

the sea was really important.

463

: 00:26:36

So some people might find woods or

parks, the sea is really important.

464

: 00:26:41

I grew up in Dorset,

it was very important.

465

: 00:26:43

And also Brighton was where I

had the most amount of friends

466

: 00:26:46

in one place, which wasn't a lot.

467

: 00:26:48

I think it was four, four people.

468

: 00:26:50

so I was like, they're where

most of my friends are.

469

: 00:26:52

It's by the sea.

470

: 00:26:54

I know, I know some of the area and so

I made the move and I think for me, the

471

: 00:27:02

reason I'm sharing that is to say, like,

all of what's shown on social media and

472

: 00:27:08

what we do on social media absolutely can

be beneficial, during that time, I got

473

: 00:27:13

to message people and, and, Thank you.

474

: 00:27:15

connect with someone that I once

spoke to when I lived in Australia and

475

: 00:27:19

things like that, but it was not the

same as being physically in a place.

476

: 00:27:25

like actually on your street or in your

town, city, village, knowing people.

477

: 00:27:31

And that is really, really important.

478

: 00:27:33

And that is something like,

there is a lot of things that

479

: 00:27:36

social media can be good for.

480

: 00:27:39

So you can, through social media,

find your tribe of a particular

481

: 00:27:44

condition you might be suffering.

482

: 00:27:45

So for me, I got to join

a forum about anxiety.

483

: 00:27:49

Brilliant.

484

: 00:27:50

But it's not going to replace

that connection of an actual

485

: 00:27:54

person being in front of you.

486

: 00:27:56

And like I said, it doesn't

have to be best friends.

487

: 00:27:59

It can be going to the corner

shop and knowing Joe, who runs the

488

: 00:28:04

corner shop and having a chat every

day, going, to the coffee shop.

489

: 00:28:09

And that's another thing that we're

losing less and less of is those.

490

: 00:28:14

places of connection in

our town, cities, villages.

491

: 00:28:18

So recently, I'll give you an example.

492

: 00:28:21

They are looking to close ticket

stations at train stations.

493

: 00:28:26

Big concern for me.

494

: 00:28:27

And so when I bring into what we do at

TogetherCo, so TogetherCo has spoken

495

: 00:28:32

about that and said, hang on a minute.

496

: 00:28:35

Firstly, people need to connect

and a lot of people going to the

497

: 00:28:39

train station need a conversation.

498

: 00:28:40

And secondly, their reason

for it was modernization.

499

: 00:28:45

Surely modernisation in this world is

actually being inclusive of people,

500

: 00:28:51

and I was reading about the RNIB did

a survey for people who are partially

501

: 00:28:57

or blind, and only 3 percent of people

surveyed from that community would

502

: 00:29:03

feel comfortable using a machine.

503

: 00:29:05

actually, this isn't modernisation at all.

504

: 00:29:08

For me, this is choosing

convenience over connection.

505

: 00:29:12

And that is something bringing

TogetherCo back into it.

506

: 00:29:14

TogetherCo is trying to say,

Look, let's not do convenience

507

: 00:29:18

and cost cutting over connection.

508

: 00:29:20

Because those small moments of

connection, it doesn't have to be big.

509

: 00:29:23

And that's why I don't want people

to feel like, Oh, but I still don't

510

: 00:29:25

have any, that I don't know people.

511

: 00:29:27

It doesn't matter.

512

: 00:29:28

Go and just have a conversation,

in your local shop.

513

: 00:29:31

Go and have a coffee and get

to know the coffee owners.

514

: 00:29:34

Those few moments of connection,

it's been proven biologically.

515

: 00:29:39

Help us every day with

our positive emotion.

516

: 00:29:42

that's what, so we're

campaigning it together, Co.

517

: 00:29:45

But also there's a real personal message

from me that I wanted to share at

518

: 00:29:48

this point to say I have felt lonely.

519

: 00:29:51

It did cause my mental breakdown.

520

: 00:29:54

It was caused by my loneliness.

521

: 00:29:56

My social health impacted

my mental health.

522

: 00:29:59

Sal Jefferies: thank you.

523

: 00:30:00

That's a very powerful story

and I'm very touched by it.

524

: 00:30:02

So thank you for sharing and obviously

sorry for the loss of your friend.

525

: 00:30:05

Isn't it interesting, the labelling, and

whilst the conditions you may have had

526

: 00:30:09

at that time, I call them expressions,

we call them conditions if you're

527

: 00:30:12

medical, but depression, panic disorder.

528

: 00:30:16

I think if we don't look at the

environment, like you've already

529

: 00:30:19

alluded to, like the social health

environment, we don't look at

530

: 00:30:22

what's the bigger picture here?

531

: 00:30:23

What's going on?

532

: 00:30:25

And I would actually also say

the better question, certainly a

533

: 00:30:27

question I drop in my coaching a

lot, is like, what is not going on?

534

: 00:30:30

Because we often look at what we're

doing, but what are we not doing?

535

: 00:30:33

I haven't gone to the shop

this week, or, I know, I know a

536

: 00:30:36

client and they work in, tech.

537

: 00:30:39

and they spend a lot of time

with them, tech is what they do.

538

: 00:30:41

And they don't go out much.

539

: 00:30:42

I'm like, what do you mean

you haven't been out today?

540

: 00:30:44

What do you mean?

541

: 00:30:45

I've been out like eight times,

I've done seven miles already.

542

: 00:30:47

And they're like, oh no, I didn't go out.

543

: 00:30:48

I'm like, wow.

544

: 00:30:50

And of course, that's, that's not healthy.

545

: 00:30:52

Humans are wired to connect.

546

: 00:30:54

And sometimes it, the, what am I not

doing question is really powerful.

547

: 00:30:58

Cause if you are having the experience

of depression or you're pulling back, or

548

: 00:31:02

there's a lot of panic or anxiety, there's

a reason why your nervous system, your

549

: 00:31:08

brain body system is expressing that way.

550

: 00:31:11

There's a reason for it.

551

: 00:31:12

It's not wrong.

552

: 00:31:13

For some people, it's a,

a maladaptive condition.

553

: 00:31:16

And there are other elements to it.

554

: 00:31:17

But if we don't ask what is going

on in the bigger picture, certainly

555

: 00:31:20

with connections we're speaking to

now, then we're really missing the, I

556

: 00:31:25

think, the message in those situations.

557

: 00:31:28

And, yeah, amazing.

558

: 00:31:29

Thank you for sharing that.

559

: 00:31:30

That was really powerful.

560

: 00:31:31

And I too heard about that

shutting down of ticket offices.

561

: 00:31:34

And, yeah, the word

modernisation, it's very careful.

562

: 00:31:38

That doesn't mean it's better.

563

: 00:31:41

oh, it's modernising.

564

: 00:31:41

It's yeah, the modern world.

565

: 00:31:43

It doesn't mean it's a better world.

566

: 00:31:44

And, us...

567

: 00:31:46

Are rates of anxiety

and depression going up?

568

: 00:31:49

Are suicide rates going up?

569

: 00:31:51

Hmm.

570

: 00:31:51

Are we having issues with the

economy and the environment?

571

: 00:31:53

we know the answer to these questions.

572

: 00:31:55

They're pretty bleak.

573

: 00:31:56

And there's a reason for this.

574

: 00:31:58

Now, we can't solve all

the problems in one go.

575

: 00:31:59

But if one of the issues are

disconnection from other people,

576

: 00:32:04

the answer is quite simple.

577

: 00:32:06

Not necessarily easy, but simple.

578

: 00:32:07

It's reconnect with other And let's

look at how that might happen.

579

: 00:32:12

I want to speak to...

580

: 00:32:13

So some of my audience are...

581

: 00:32:15

like you said to, earlier in our, in

our conversation, they're surrounded

582

: 00:32:19

by lots of people and they have people

in their lives and they're busy and

583

: 00:32:22

probably successful to some degree and

yet have that gnawing feeling, that

584

: 00:32:26

feeling if you're in, you're on your own

for a minute in the shower or there's

585

: 00:32:30

something missing, there's something

wrong with me and I coach a lot of people

586

: 00:32:34

who do really well in many aspects,

but existentially there's a hole,

587

: 00:32:38

there's a problem and we go to that.

588

: 00:32:40

We're like, what is that?

589

: 00:32:42

And as you've already alluded to,

that if loneliness is, you're at

590

: 00:32:46

the top, you're, hey, look, you're a

CEO of your company, but it's lonely

591

: 00:32:49

at the top for a lot of people.

592

: 00:32:51

A lot of people don't challenge that.

593

: 00:32:52

And there's also a facade.

594

: 00:32:54

If you're a CEO or

founder, there's a facade.

595

: 00:32:57

People don't get to see the

real you, perhaps, because

596

: 00:32:59

that's just not how it works.

597

: 00:33:01

And I noticed that that's a.

598

: 00:33:03

Pernicious, slightly more subtle way

of people being lonely or isolated, and

599

: 00:33:08

yet they're in a busy room and they're

in a busy life, and yet they're empty.

600

: 00:33:13

And, and that's a really interesting one.

601

: 00:33:15

How would you speak to that person?

602

: 00:33:17

What might they be doing to change

their experience of loneliness, even

603

: 00:33:21

though they have physical people around?

604

: 00:33:23

What would you say in your, your

professional experience, what can they do?

605

: 00:33:28

April Baker: I think that's

such an important point you've

606

: 00:33:31

raised because often people get

alone, confused with loneliness.

607

: 00:33:38

And actually some people are alone.

608

: 00:33:40

And solitude is actually something

very positive and be, can be really an

609

: 00:33:45

amazing space to connect with yourself.

610

: 00:33:47

But then you'll have individuals

that are in this room ha look on

611

: 00:33:52

paper like they've got great social

health, but they just don't feel that.

612

: 00:33:58

And I think for me, the key.

613

: 00:34:03

message, and I can only speak really

of my own experience, as you said, of

614

: 00:34:07

being a CEO or being a senior leader

for many years, somebody who has

615

: 00:34:12

themselves struggled significantly with

loneliness, it has been, for me, about

616

: 00:34:18

meaning, what gives meaning to my life?

617

: 00:34:25

What is it that makes buzz?

618

: 00:34:29

What gives me flow?

619

: 00:34:32

What is it that I just love doing and

having that filtered out in parts of

620

: 00:34:40

your week so that you can come back to

that because a key point for me is when

621

: 00:34:44

I am going to these big events and, when

I am CEO at work, accountable to the

622

: 00:34:51

staff that I serve, accountable to the

board that I serve, sometimes I feel

623

: 00:34:55

like I've had to armor up or I feel

that there has to be a few shades of me.

624

: 00:35:00

And then you, you can move

away from your authentic self.

625

: 00:35:04

So we need ways, and I, and I really

recommend coaching, and speaking to

626

: 00:35:11

someone on this as well, we need ways

to come back to who we are, what gives

627

: 00:35:17

us meaning, so we're not the Fifty

Shades, maybe we're three shades of

628

: 00:35:21

ourselves, but we know who we are.

629

: 00:35:23

So I think that's what I've had

to think, how can I bring...

630

: 00:35:28

me to my work as much as possible.

631

: 00:35:31

So firstly, becoming a CEO

was never important to me.

632

: 00:35:36

The loneliness mission was.

633

: 00:35:38

So that's, because I'm, I'm

working for a cause I just

634

: 00:35:42

believe in, it's really helped my

wellbeing in many different ways.

635

: 00:35:46

also knowing, and it's very

interesting, you spoke about,

636

: 00:35:49

being introverted, knowing.

637

: 00:35:51

that it's okay to be an introverted

leader because I didn't know that.

638

: 00:35:56

I thought, you look at all leaders and

it's extroverted and I should love this.

639

: 00:36:00

I should love all these networking.

640

: 00:36:02

And I don't, I do it and I do it for

the cause because I'm passionate for

641

: 00:36:06

the cause, but I have to the next day

have a day free with no socializing.

642

: 00:36:10

So I do things a lot more like I go

to the cinema on my own quite a lot.

643

: 00:36:16

I go for walks on my own.

644

: 00:36:17

I go to the sea on my own because

I know that's where I find some I

645

: 00:36:22

also know what's important to me.

646

: 00:36:26

But I've, I've done work.

647

: 00:36:27

I've, I've always had a mentor,

that's important to say, and a coach.

648

: 00:36:33

And I believe so much in the power

of someone standing next to you,

649

: 00:36:37

holding that mirror and, and being

able to talk back to you, but that

650

: 00:36:41

you don't have to on your own.

651

: 00:36:43

You really, really don't.

652

: 00:36:44

So I think if you're feeling

like that, It's okay.

653

: 00:36:49

You need to find a way, whether that's

through journaling, whether that's

654

: 00:36:52

through coaching, whether that's

through, you can do some great strength,

655

: 00:36:58

free strength finders to look at

what your strengths are, values and

656

: 00:37:01

action, the VIA surveys, brilliant.

657

: 00:37:03

Oh, that's what I love.

658

: 00:37:04

I know I love learning.

659

: 00:37:06

So I'm always going to want to

be in a role that's learning.

660

: 00:37:09

Try and look at who, you have strengths.

661

: 00:37:11

Everyone has gifts and strengths.

662

: 00:37:12

Find those, find that part of you.

663

: 00:37:14

Thank you.

664

: 00:37:15

And that's what's going to bring you back

to yourselves in moments that sometimes

665

: 00:37:18

we have to perform or have to bring a

certain different self to a role, but you

666

: 00:37:23

don't want to be out in that all the time.

667

: 00:37:25

And I think for me in my loneliness,

when it was really bad and I may become

668

: 00:37:30

lonely again in life, but when it was

really bad, it's because I felt like I

669

: 00:37:33

was dipping into everyone else's life.

670

: 00:37:35

I feel I was performing at work

and I was like, where's April?

671

: 00:37:39

Who is April?

672

: 00:37:40

So that's for me what I feel.

673

: 00:37:43

Sal Jefferies: the term I use when I've

had that experience to some degree, not as

674

: 00:37:46

much as you, but it's I've lost my centre.

675

: 00:37:48

I've lost the centre of who I am

and, we, we are chameleon esque.

676

: 00:37:52

Humans are very good at chameleon

esque people and leaders and people

677

: 00:37:55

in their businesses are good.

678

: 00:37:57

It's great to be a salesperson, perhaps

the ambassador, maybe it's the front

679

: 00:38:01

of house, whatever it is you do.

680

: 00:38:02

And, and this sort of flexibility

itself is utterly natural.

681

: 00:38:06

And I think it's a great skill

set we should all master.

682

: 00:38:09

not at the expense of losing your centre.

683

: 00:38:11

It's like if you're not anchored to a

centre point of who you are at your core,

684

: 00:38:15

then we start to, we slip into patterns.

685

: 00:38:18

People know people

pleasing, imposter syndrome.

686

: 00:38:19

They're all built on very shaky

egos or very fragile egos, which

687

: 00:38:24

are actually not really egos.

688

: 00:38:25

They're conceptual egos, which

is a lot of work I do is to

689

: 00:38:28

break that ego, not healthily.

690

: 00:38:30

And let the real ego come

out, the real self come out.

691

: 00:38:33

It's, it's deep.

692

: 00:38:33

it reminds me of the old.

693

: 00:38:35

quote, or the existential

theory around bad faith.

694

: 00:38:38

If, I like a bit of existentialism.

695

: 00:38:40

Yeah.

696

: 00:38:40

And I've, as from positive psychology,

I trained with, one of the guys

697

: 00:38:43

who used to lead the course there.

698

: 00:38:44

brilliant guy.

699

: 00:38:45

we talk about bad faith in the

existential, that the example

700

: 00:38:48

is this, it's a very old one.

701

: 00:38:50

If there was a waiter, being all

gregarious and lovely and serving the,

702

: 00:38:54

serving the coffees and teas, and they

went home, was all miserable and downbeat.

703

: 00:38:57

They, they would call that as bad faith.

704

: 00:39:00

We might call it, in

modern terms, disingenuous.

705

: 00:39:03

I think there's something really important

about not losing your core centre,

706

: 00:39:06

even if you're a leader, whatever you

have to do, because if you've still

707

: 00:39:11

got those attributes, those qualities,

those strengths, they shine through.

708

: 00:39:15

How you apply those strengths is skill.

709

: 00:39:18

So if you are, passionate about what

you do, honest, trustworthy, don't take,

710

: 00:39:23

don't take any rubbish from people.

711

: 00:39:25

That can be your way of being, how you

deploy it can be skillful and elegant,

712

: 00:39:30

but if you start to not meet those honest,

authentic parts of you, I think that

713

: 00:39:35

starts to become in some ways an isolation

from our inner self and Little steep

714

: 00:39:40

into there's internal family systems.

715

: 00:39:42

There's a psychological principle model.

716

: 00:39:45

You might Psychosynthesis sort of

deals with this . We talk a lot about

717

: 00:39:48

the, the internal family, the parts

of ourselves, and, and when you do

718

: 00:39:52

the inner works, sometimes we have an

isolated part and those who've been

719

: 00:39:56

through therapy, you might know this,

those who, if you haven't had al therapy,

720

: 00:40:00

we often have a part of us, which we

don't like, or we've closed it down.

721

: 00:40:05

It could, it could be the Revel, it

could be the kid, it could either it's

722

: 00:40:08

one of these parts or it got shamed,

certainly in the male domain, which I

723

: 00:40:12

can speak to with my own experience.

724

: 00:40:14

is that part got shamed.

725

: 00:40:15

So that's not okay to

be that version of you.

726

: 00:40:18

You have to be, certainly the nonsense

I was growing up in, strong, masculine,

727

: 00:40:21

I'm a really sensitive individual.

728

: 00:40:23

I was like, no, that's

not going to cut it.

729

: 00:40:25

You have to be strong and tough and hard.

730

: 00:40:26

And, and, and so part of that softer,

gentle part of me got closed down for many

731

: 00:40:30

years until I did the work to let that

part be seen and also brought back in.

732

: 00:40:35

So that internal isolation and

loneliness can happen as well.

733

: 00:40:38

It's a more of a...

734

: 00:40:40

Deeper level of working, but I think

it's worth naming because it can be going

735

: 00:40:44

on for many people and that internal

It's like there's something wrong.

736

: 00:40:48

There's a dissonance within It needs

looking at because actually it's it's

737

: 00:40:53

an expression what often happens on the

outside That we April social health.

738

: 00:41:00

Let's let's get let's get practical

now Let's we've got our listeners

739

: 00:41:03

have lots and lots of understanding

and knowledge What are the pillars,

740

: 00:41:07

what are the pieces of social health?

741

: 00:41:09

So if someone's thinking, yeah,

you know what, this is exactly the

742

: 00:41:11

stuff I need to attend to right

now, that's what's going on for me.

743

: 00:41:14

What are the key things in social

health can we flag up and go,

744

: 00:41:17

these are the pieces that make it.

745

: 00:41:19

What would you say?

746

: 00:41:21

April Baker: So the first thing is

with social health is relationships.

747

: 00:41:25

So what I would suggest is looking at

your current relationships with people.

748

: 00:41:31

So I don't know if people are

aware of, Dunbar's rule of the 150.

749

: 00:41:37

people, which is actually shown through

anthropology that that's our limit.

750

: 00:41:41

Actually, the hundreds of thousands of

followers, it's not going to happen.

751

: 00:41:45

So firstly, it's okay to only

have a few people in your life.

752

: 00:41:49

Maximum of people you can actually

connect with, they say, is about 150.

753

: 00:41:53

But what's key is, think about those

individuals that are important to

754

: 00:41:59

you in your life, that when you're

with them, they give you energy.

755

: 00:42:02

Note those individuals down.

756

: 00:42:05

Think about those people that

you like an activity with.

757

: 00:42:08

You go and do an activity.

758

: 00:42:09

Note those people down and think

about how much time you're spending

759

: 00:42:13

with those individuals or how much

timing instead of spending with those

760

: 00:42:16

individuals, you're scrolling on your

phone or you're working overtime.

761

: 00:42:21

So I would just do a bit of a summary of.

762

: 00:42:24

These are the people that give me energy.

763

: 00:42:26

It could be one or two as well.

764

: 00:42:27

And it may be at this moment you're

not sure, which then that's telling

765

: 00:42:31

you I want to find those people.

766

: 00:42:33

That's okay as well.

767

: 00:42:34

You can start to find these people.

768

: 00:42:35

So you want to build up a network of

people that you know in your hardest

769

: 00:42:42

moments you would be wanting to call on.

770

: 00:42:45

And that takes time, I've got to say as

well, but just key is people that like

771

: 00:42:49

what you like, and you're going to go

and do stuff together, like one of my

772

: 00:42:51

friends, when they moved to Brighton, they

didn't know many people, they knew myself,

773

: 00:42:55

they didn't know many people, they loved

volleyball, so they joined volleyball,

774

: 00:42:59

they've now got a massive network of

friendships, and it's fantastic, and

775

: 00:43:02

friends are meeting friends, so that's

the first thing, I would say, is do that,

776

: 00:43:06

start building that up, and just in your

week, just like we do with mental health,

777

: 00:43:11

where we go, I'm going to do mindfulness,

Physical health, I'm going to go to

778

: 00:43:15

the gym, social health, I'm going to

see Joe because Joe and me have a great

779

: 00:43:21

giggle and I've had a really tough week

and I'm going to commit, I'm not going

780

: 00:43:23

to work late, so you add that bit in.

781

: 00:43:26

The other thing I would say is

don't overlook kindness and giving.

782

: 00:43:34

So every day you have an opportunity

to increase your well being by

783

: 00:43:40

doing really small acts of kindness

throughout the day, giving to others.

784

: 00:43:45

So that could be, get off your

phone, look up on the bus and smile

785

: 00:43:50

at the person in front of you.

786

: 00:43:52

You see someone struggling with their

shopping and they live three doors down,

787

: 00:43:55

pick up that shopping, carry it for them.

788

: 00:43:58

I promise you, that will help

you just as much, if not more

789

: 00:44:02

than the person you're helping.

790

: 00:44:04

You can take that help further as well.

791

: 00:44:07

And actually, things like volunteering,

and I know I'm obviously going to speak

792

: 00:44:12

about this because of being charity

CEO, but I cannot tell you the amount of

793

: 00:44:17

corporates that bring their teams to our

social events and the teams afterwards say

794

: 00:44:23

it's one of the most amazing experiences

they've had because they get to give

795

: 00:44:27

back to their local community, they

get to have conversations with people

796

: 00:44:30

they never usually get to meet, and so

volunteering really is an incredible

797

: 00:44:36

way to help your own well being.

798

: 00:44:39

It doesn't have to be massive.

799

: 00:44:40

It doesn't have to be long term.

800

: 00:44:41

It could be, okay, I'm going

to go and do this fundraiser.

801

: 00:44:45

I'm going to go and do one

event for this charity.

802

: 00:44:48

Think about a cause.

803

: 00:44:49

We talked about meaning.

804

: 00:44:50

What gives you meaning?

805

: 00:44:52

What has helped you in your life?

806

: 00:44:55

So obviously, as you can tell, for

me, loneliness is important for me.

807

: 00:44:59

for my, Dad, um, his sister, got early

onset dementia, so he does a lot of

808

: 00:45:06

work supporting, dementia research.

809

: 00:45:08

the real, there will be, that will give

you meaning, because it's something that's

810

: 00:45:11

important to you, but also, you're giving.

811

: 00:45:15

And, thinking about this the other

day, actually, I took a picture

812

: 00:45:18

in a, a local bookshop I went

into for the self help section.

813

: 00:45:22

Massive self help section.

814

: 00:45:24

And I was like, one day,

wouldn't it be amazing that

815

: 00:45:27

there's a help others section?

816

: 00:45:29

Because, and you spoke about this really

well earlier, Sal, about the individual

817

: 00:45:34

being prioritised, which obviously is

important, but actually, helping your

818

: 00:45:40

community, helping one another, needs to

be equally prioritised, because that's

819

: 00:45:46

what's going to help you feel Thank you.

820

: 00:45:48

more grounded, more connected, that's

going to help you recognise what you love.

821

: 00:45:54

But also those daily acts of

kindness, just like your daily acts

822

: 00:45:57

of gratitude, really are powerful.

823

: 00:46:00

They increase your positive emotion.

824

: 00:46:02

They're just as powerful as

going for a run, in the gym,

825

: 00:46:05

which is really equally as good.

826

: 00:46:08

But we must start thinking of

these other social aspects as well.

827

: 00:46:11

Sal Jefferies: Really, really nice.

828

: 00:46:12

Absolutely amazing.

829

: 00:46:13

We're going to capture those and put those

points in the show notes for everyone.

830

: 00:46:16

amazing.

831

: 00:46:16

what struck me when you said there

about, yes, we're individuals,

832

: 00:46:19

that's what I coach with.

833

: 00:46:21

Here's the thing, we're also the other.

834

: 00:46:23

I'm the other to you, or to a

person who passes me on the bus, or

835

: 00:46:28

on the street, or whatever it is.

836

: 00:46:29

So we're actually the other anyway.

837

: 00:46:32

We forget that.

838

: 00:46:33

We are the other, as

well as the individual.

839

: 00:46:35

So when we realise that, we

realise that, actually we're both.

840

: 00:46:41

And I think that...

841

: 00:46:42

Hopefully you can break down

the barriers a little bit, the

842

: 00:46:45

psychological barriers about oh,

should I do this, should I do this?

843

: 00:46:48

No, you're the other.

844

: 00:46:49

It's okay, because what if someone helped

you if you, I don't know, had a shoulder

845

: 00:46:52

injury and you couldn't carry your bag?

846

: 00:46:54

Someone said, oh, do you want a hand?

847

: 00:46:55

Oh, thanks, lovely.

848

: 00:46:57

amazing.

849

: 00:46:57

Really, really cool.

850

: 00:46:59

Last, I really want to just capture

some clear things on what Together

851

: 00:47:02

Code do, because it's really important.

852

: 00:47:04

You've got some great programming,

and it also will help encapsulate

853

: 00:47:07

for everyone listening, what's...

854

: 00:47:09

You do as a profession,

what you know works.

855

: 00:47:11

What, tell me a little bit, just

a little, the pricey of your, you

856

: 00:47:14

guys, what you do in your programs.

857

: 00:47:16

April Baker: Fantastic.

858

: 00:47:16

Yes.

859

: 00:47:16

So Together Co, as we spoke

about, it's a loneliness charity

860

: 00:47:19

based in Brighton and Hove.

861

: 00:47:21

So it's all about developing

your social health.

862

: 00:47:23

We have two main programs.

863

: 00:47:26

The first one is social prescribing.

864

: 00:47:28

And this is something really important

just to touch on actually, is National,

865

: 00:47:32

program and you can go to your GP or you

might find us in job centers and basically

866

: 00:47:39

it's a professional called a link worker

that will help you around ways to connect.

867

: 00:47:44

So it might be connecting with some

financial advice or housing advice,

868

: 00:47:48

but also it might be ways you want

to connect in your local community.

869

: 00:47:51

You might be a newcomer to the city.

870

: 00:47:53

So we oversee social prescribing.

871

: 00:47:55

So wherever you live in the UK,

you can look up social prescribing

872

: 00:47:59

and also you can go to your GP

and talk about that as well.

873

: 00:48:01

The other part is befriending.

874

: 00:48:03

And so I talk about with volunteers.

875

: 00:48:04

So we match people across the city

in neighbourhoods to become friends.

876

: 00:48:09

And I cannot tell you the

amount of beautiful stories of.

877

: 00:48:13

people needing people and that people

are just wanting to be together.

878

: 00:48:17

But also, if it wasn't for TogetherCo,

which has been going for 20 years,

879

: 00:48:20

way before, I came on board, those

friendships wouldn't have happened.

880

: 00:48:24

And some of those

friendships last a lifetime.

881

: 00:48:27

And because of that, people at the end,

so dying well is as important as living

882

: 00:48:30

well, people have a friend at the end.

883

: 00:48:32

And if TogetherCo hadn't matched

them, they wouldn't have had anybody.

884

: 00:48:37

this is powerful.

885

: 00:48:38

everybody deserves somebody.

886

: 00:48:40

We come, we don't come into

this world fully alone.

887

: 00:48:42

Our wonderful mothers bring us

into this world and we shouldn't

888

: 00:48:44

go out on our own as well.

889

: 00:48:46

And then sadly, People do.

890

: 00:48:49

So that's something very, very important

to us and something we've been delivering,

891

: 00:48:53

like I said, for many, many years.

892

: 00:48:54

But we need more volunteers

and we also just have a whole

893

: 00:48:57

range of volunteer programs.

894

: 00:48:58

So anyone that wants to get

involved, we don't say no.

895

: 00:49:00

We say, come on board, what's your skills?

896

: 00:49:02

How do you wanna get involved?

897

: 00:49:03

Because then they build up networks.

898

: 00:49:05

'cause we have volunteer events,

so they become friends as well.

899

: 00:49:07

So that's a range of,

of what we do, locally.

900

: 00:49:10

There is other, so if anyone's.

901

: 00:49:12

thinking, wow, okay, but

I don't live in Sussex.

902

: 00:49:14

There's lots of other fantastic

loneliness charities across the uk.

903

: 00:49:17

You've got the Joe Cox Foundation

in London, you've got the

904

: 00:49:20

Marmalade Trust in Bristol.

905

: 00:49:21

so there's lots of others as well.

906

: 00:49:23

Age, UKs across the country do a lot

of, uh, working with older people.

907

: 00:49:27

But what I would just wanna

stress as well, that loneliness

908

: 00:49:30

is not an older person It affects.

909

: 00:49:33

All of us have many points of our lives.

910

: 00:49:35

Young people are really

affected by it right now.

911

: 00:49:38

There's a brilliant co op foundation

program called Lonely Not Alone.

912

: 00:49:41

Really, if you've got, children, I

recommend going and just being mindful

913

: 00:49:45

of that and what that might be happening

for your children around loneliness.

914

: 00:49:48

It can affect people who

are newcomers to cities.

915

: 00:49:51

It's affecting men that we've

talked, you've spoken about with,

916

: 00:49:54

the connection and being able to

reach out sadly high suicide rates.

917

: 00:49:58

New mothers.

918

: 00:50:00

Seriously affected as well.

919

: 00:50:01

So it isn't just, Oh,

it's an old person thing.

920

: 00:50:04

I don't need to worry about it.

921

: 00:50:05

Actually, it can affect us all.

922

: 00:50:06

Like I've spoken about, it affected me

in my early twenties and it may do again.

923

: 00:50:10

So lots of options.

924

: 00:50:12

I hope that explained quite

well a range of what we do, but

925

: 00:50:15

also I'm just very passionate.

926

: 00:50:16

Wherever you are, go and have a research

about ways you can connect locally

927

: 00:50:20

as well.

928

: 00:50:21

Sal Jefferies: Brilliant, thank you

for sharing and we will of course

929

: 00:50:23

put your show note, in the show

notes, details to, to learn more,

930

: 00:50:26

to, to see it together, code, all

the programs that will go in there.

931

: 00:50:29

yeah, I'm really struck, because

we, we, we, we had a, an initial

932

: 00:50:32

conversation before this and.

933

: 00:50:34

The feeling of loneliness.

934

: 00:50:35

It's so easy in a busy world to not think

about social health and to get caught

935

: 00:50:39

up running a business, super busy, maybe

you're a parent and then it's when you

936

: 00:50:43

sit down that, that uncomfortable feeling,

there's something up and disconnection

937

: 00:50:49

wherever it is, between your mind and

your body, between you and your family,

938

: 00:50:53

between us and our community and I

see between us and the environment.

939

: 00:50:57

If we can reconnect, good things happen.

940

: 00:51:00

a really powerful subject.

941

: 00:51:01

Thanks.

942

: 00:51:01

I am so thankful for you

sharing your experience, but

943

: 00:51:04

personally, professionally,

it's really fascinating to hear.

944

: 00:51:07

Thank you, April.

945

: 00:51:08

And of course, let's meet up for

a cup of coffee in real life.

946

: 00:51:11

April Baker: Yes, let's do it.

947

: 00:51:12

Social health.

948

: 00:51:14

Sal Jefferies: health.

949

: 00:51:15

So my dear listeners, I trust

there is many, many things

950

: 00:51:19

that you've got from that.

951

: 00:51:20

But if there's one thing you can

take from it, action is traction.

952

: 00:51:24

So if there's something going on for

you, whether it's you want to find out

953

: 00:51:27

about volunteering, whether you want to

solve your own challenges, or a friend's,

954

: 00:51:30

whatever it might be, take action.

955

: 00:51:33

Action means change.

956

: 00:51:34

until the next time, take care.

957

: 00:51:38

Thank you so much for listening.

958

: 00:51:40

If you enjoyed the episode,

please subscribe and if a friend

959

: 00:51:44

would benefit from hearing this,

do send it on to them as well.

960

: 00:51:48

If you would like to get in touch

yourself, then you can go to my website,

961

: 00:51:51

which is sal jeffries.com, spelled S

A L J E F E R I E s sal jeffries.com.

962

: 00:52:00

Hit the get in touch link and there

you can send me a direct message.

963

: 00:52:05

If you'd like to go one step further

and learn whether coaching could help

964

: 00:52:07

you overcome a challenge or a block

in your life, then do reach out and

965

: 00:52:12

I offer a call where we can discuss

how this may be able to help you.

966

: 00:52:16

Until the next time, take care.