Episode 21

Management and movement is a fundamental relationship we need to consider into today's workplace - with Toby Buckle

Published on: 30th November, 2023

I’m delighted to share insights from my latest podcast with Toby Buckle about leadership, management and movement. 

We open up conversation of conscious movement in the workplace. Body language and state (emotional) management has a profound effect on us and our performance. 

A concept I have is that we don’t live in a body, we THROUGH a body. I like to help people define how they can move well and feel strong plus alleviate stress by moving and staying connected to their body. So much stress is based on psychological threats but it’s experienced in the body.

Toby is also a Tai Chi teacher and he explained to me how we can use that lens to view senior people’s activity with. Toby says that post pandemic, there’s even less movement based on working practices. Video calls are an example of we are moving less compared to when we walk and talk on a voice call. Perhaps that’s something you can consider in your own working day.

There’s a brilliant exercise we go through based on 3 zones – Comfort, Stretch and Panic. These can be done as imaginary zones on the floor you can actually ’step’ into. Toby explains this this process and it’s super helpful to help understand how to get into the ‘stretch’ zone where you can grow. Coming out of our head only and connect to the embodied experience is so powerful.

Tai Chi, much like Yoga, teaches how to be grounded and become present and able to take on things when we are grounded. These principles can be learned through movement practices. Our body happens before our head (most of the time) and we can harness this with self awareness to connect better with others, especially as a leader.

We talk about the distinction between motivating and demotivating strategies - How this can work for you or against you. Building in buffer zones to reflect and have space between meetings and ideally include some movement, even if you’re watering the plants in the office (Toby’s real example). My suggestion is “how can you move more?” Looking at what you’re doing and not doing can be revealing and help you strategise to move more on a daily basis.

What are you role modelling to your team and your family by your choices around movement? How do you describe yourself? Our identity statements are ones to watch. Toby uses a big ‘away-from’ thought to help motivate him. All these factors play into making new choices around movement and exercise and thinking in long-term timelines will be factors that create a formula for healthy habit building.

Get in touch with Toby

You can find all Toby's details and info on this website.

Get in touch with Sal

If this episode has caught your attention and you wish to learn more, then please contact me. I offer a free 20 min call where we can discuss a challenge your facing and how I may be able to help you

Transcript
Sal Jefferies:

Hello and welcome.

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Today I'm discussing management and

movement in the same breath and I'm

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joined by Toby Buckle to discuss

this very important area that both

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of us work with and both have seen.

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Now Toby's been in the field a long

time, more than 15 years working

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with leaders and management and

he specializes as a facilitator.

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and a whole host of corporate spaces.

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But what's really interesting for

everyone today is to think about

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leadership, management and movement.

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And often we don't speak about

movement in the same breath.

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We have our business heads on and we

think about all the cognitive stuff.

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And yeah, Toby and I have a lot

of experience around the body.

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movement, leadership, and

how they come together.

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So this is what we're going to dive into.

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Toby, welcome.

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Toby Buckle: Thanks.

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How lovely to be here.

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Thank you very much for having me on.

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It's great.

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Sal Jefferies: It's great to have you on.

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let's unpack movement.

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It's a massive term.

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I use the word movement now to hold

the description between exercise

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from cardiovascular exercise to

strength exercise and mobility to

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also, how do we move in the day?

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Whether you are a sedentary, a

knowledge worker at a computer.

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Or if you are getting up, moving around,

taking, activity through your day.

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So I encompass the whole, how does

our physiology actively work from

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the gentle to the more extreme?

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What's your description of a movement?

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Toby Buckle: I'd agree it covers quite

a broad spectrum and I think there's

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a danger when you start talking about

movement that people just think of

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the extreme end of all that must mean

going for a run or that must mean

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going, doing some exercise or a team

sport or something like that when

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actually it can be quite small micro

moments of movement which really help.

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and I think for me, movement is

about actually thinking and being

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conscious about your body rather than

just sitting in it all day without

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really thinking, what am I doing?

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Have I moved it?

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Have I stretched it?

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Have I done anything with my body today

apart from as really subconscious level?

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So movement for me is talking about

movement in a conscious sense.

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What are you consciously

doing with your body?

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Sal Jefferies: Lovely.

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Yeah.

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Really nice description.

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Something that came to my mind

recently was that for a long time,

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we've often been suggested that

we live in a body like we actually

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live in this thing called the body.

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And, and I challenged that description.

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And I think we live through a body.

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We, we experienced the world

through our senses, through actions,

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and they all come through our

body to some degree or another.

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And of course, how our

body is functioning.

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Whether that's dynamic, well energized,

or heavy, lethargic, not well, ill,

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they have a huge effect on our outputs.

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So those of us in the management space,

leadership, business, how your business

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is, how you are functioning and operating

is really strongly influenced by the

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state of your physicality and your body.

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Toby, tell me a little more about

how you've got to this place.

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You've been in the field a

long time, working with lots of

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corporates and lots of people.

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How you got into understanding

working with management and

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finessing people and bringing the

element of movement into that work?

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Toby Buckle: So I got into this because

I was a manager myself and then a senior

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manager and I had managers working for me

and I got really interested in Why some

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of them were good at it, and some of them

weren't, and I went on lots of training

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for myself, which involved various things.

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And one of the things was NLP, which

has got quite a large element of what

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are you doing with your body in terms of

body language, how you're communicating,

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but also in terms of state management.

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So state management is that thing you

were just alluding to in terms of how

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you're feeling, how you're working,

and that affects your performance.

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So that was my first inkling

into, Oh, there's more to this

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than just thinking through.

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It's not just a head thing we do.

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It's a body thing we do in

communicating in being, and

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actually that has a profound effect.

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So I've over the years then

got into thinking about my

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own movement, my own body.

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I've studied Tai Chi now for

about 15, 16 years, which was

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my entry into discovering.

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I knew very little about how I

actually operated within my body.

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and.

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I've done lots of sports throughout

my life as well, which I've brought

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in elements of that to lots of

people because there's a really good

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analogy between sports and how to

manage people, how to lead people.

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So I've brought those elements of

what does things like Tai Chi teach

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us in terms of state management,

presence, being able to be assertive.

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What do they look like in terms of

a physicality for people as well

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as thinking about, okay, so what is

your general fitness energy levels?

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say about you as a manager and

leader at this point, particularly

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I coach a lots of CEOs who are in

really high stressful positions.

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I had one who was, CEO for quite a

large, charity and that was quite

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a stressful position because he

had people all over the world.

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in Darfur or Turkey where there's

earthquakes or wars or, and, and that

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stress was really building up for him.

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And what he found was he wasn't

finding any way to dissipate it.

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So we talked it through and the

thing he came up with, I used to

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run and I don't run very often.

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So maybe if I just ran for 15 minutes

every day, because that's all he could

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manage, that would make a difference.

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And it transformed his resilience levels.

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for doing that job.

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And that was a real item.

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That was one of the early people

I coached and I was like, ah,

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perhaps more people need this.

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Sal Jefferies: I'm nodding along because

I'm like, yeah, I totally get that.

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That's, that's so interesting.

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And it's curious, isn't it?

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So some people might be listening,

thinking, yeah, I'm, I'm into active.

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I'm moving.

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I'm doing stuff and some maybe less.

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So we don't want to get caught up in

judgments here and labels, but what

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we understand is the human body.

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primarily is designed to move.

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It's been around for a very long time.

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It's an elegant, powerful system, very

dynamic, capable of lots of things.

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Now, while we might all not be an elite

athlete or hepsathlon or something

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like that, we all can function well.

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And what that means to each of us,

I think is important to define.

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I love what you said there

about dealing with stress.

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It comes up in my work, certainly

in coaching, people who are founders

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or running their own organizations.

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Stress is everywhere.

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And stress is this kind of catch

all term, and I think the problem

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with umbrella terms is that we don't

nuance it and understand what it is.

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And we also think it's all a

head game, and therein lies

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a massive misunderstanding.

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Stress is a physiological

response, first and foremost.

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Yep.

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So our nervous system is

hardwired to look for threats.

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That's it's code one.

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It's always designed that way.

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That threat in old times might have been

the weather, an animal, hunter gatherer,

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ancient times of human development.

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In modern world, it's, it's an

email coming in from a disgruntled

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client or something like that.

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And it becomes a psychological

threat point being same part of

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your nervous system triggers.

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And, and then we're in a cascade of,

stress hormones, physiology, and then

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the thinking that goes with that.

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And there also lies the thing

I want to really unpack today

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is so much of this is physical.

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So much stress is physical.

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So much experience is

physically experienced.

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If we don't address that and stay stuck

in our heads and hands up, I used to be

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in my head a lot, then we really just

not gonna, not only not perform well,

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but we're going to suffer a lot more.

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And, and I love what you said about your,

your, your client there, just getting

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back into some form of activity, running

for this person, and how that literally

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changed his, his whole way of being.

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So that's wonderful.

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Toby, you've, you've told me some various

things, stories about other people.

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Perhaps you could say a little more

around, things that you're seeing

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about not just movement, but how the

integration of body and mind or movement

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and management are working in the,

in the recent times that you've been

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working with people, perhaps past the

pandemic, because of course, so much

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of the pandemic really shifted us.

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What have you seen in the more last couple

of years that that's relevant to this?

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Toby Buckle: static even more,

because they're hybrid working

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or they're working from home.

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and they are literally sitting

at their desks on zoom calls

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or the team's calls all day.

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whereas before we're in the office,

they at least used to move to go

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to meeting rooms or to go get their

sandwich down the road and have

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a walk and talk with somebody.

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a lot of that has disappeared for a lot

of people and, there seems to be this

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thing come out now where it's great that

we've got video calls in many ways, but

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it's not great that actually it's become

the default means of communication, I

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think, because actually what happens is

when there's a video call, people think,

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oh, I've got to sit down and take this.

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Whereas if you're on a phone call, quite

often you can move around, even if it's

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just walking around the room you're in.

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or, if you're careful in a safe

space, you can walk and talk.

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With a phone called in the headphones

on right that's disappeared for a lot

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of people because of the nature of

video conferencing video calls So I

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see that actually we've probably become

even more static and less movement

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is happening as a result of that

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Sal Jefferies: That's really interesting.

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Unsurprising.

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It's something which I've seen a

little bit, but I know you work a

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lot more in with a lot more people

and groups that have seen that.

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And the pandemic is curious.

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I had another guest on the clinical

psychologist a while back was talking

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about these sort of gaps between if

you were staying at home or you were

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working from home before and perhaps a

little more introverted, you're really

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hard to get people back out of that that

that groove that's happened since the

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pandemic and the lockdown experience.

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That said, these are some of

the things Behavioral patterns.

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And as with all behavior, any

behavior is a learned experience.

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you don't grow up, come into the world,

become a CEO, you come as a baby,

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you learn about life, about movement.

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And so everything's a learned

experience for all humans.

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And we can forget that actually everything

is a learned experience and it's a

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cultural influence about how we are.

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So I really curious when you're saying

about how Tai Chi helped you become

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more conscious and as a conscious,

business person, You can look at these

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things such as, are you sedentary?

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Are you active?

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How are your energy levels?

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Are they up or down?

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Because it's consciousness first

and foremost that means you're

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going to make some healthy changes.

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How, how do you bring that understanding

from Tai Chi and being a conscious person

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into some of the work you've been doing?

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Toby Buckle: of exercises I do

and I like to do with people.

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So one of them is, using the circles

of, comfort, stretch and panic is

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a, is a good description of them.

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And so laying out these circles,

you can do it just on paper and it'd

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be a head exercise where you just

write what's in your comfort zone.

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What's a bit of a stretch in the challenge

for you and what's actually a panic or

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you procrastinate about, and you can

just write it down on a bit of paper.

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But what I've realized is it's

much more effective if I can get

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people to actually stand in those

imaginary circles on the floor.

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Connect with the feeling of

what it's, what does it feel

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like to be in my comfort zone?

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What things are actually

in my comfort zone?

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How does that feel?

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Where do I feel that?

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Where does it feel like boredom?

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Where does it feel like

okay ness of comfort zone?

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And get that in touch with

their body response to that.

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And then I get them to step out into

the stretch zone and feel what's it

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like when it's a bit of a challenge.

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When there is some growth, when

there is some learning, get them to

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feel in their bodies where that is

and what that sensation's And then

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with a bit of caution, don't, get

them to step into what's a more of

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a panic, a little panic for you?

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Or that thing where the butterflies

literally in your stomach, that phrase,

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what does that actually feel like?

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Is it butterflies in the stomach?

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Or, how does it feel when you're

outside of the sweat zone for you?

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And then I get them to think

about things that they can do.

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to step back into the strep zone

and take it literally step with

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it back into the strep zone.

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And you can see whether they're actually

cognizant with that because they'll

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hesitate otherwise with that step.

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Because the physicality of taking it

into a different zone shows up for them.

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And so I can read people with my Tai

Chi skills in terms of what their body

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responses are doing that, and I can map

and pace them and talk about the things

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whilst they're doing an activity like

that, which is really, really useful

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and gives you so much more information

about what's going on and gives them a

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much better understanding of themselves.

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Sal Jefferies: I absolutely love that.

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That takes me back to my

psychotherapeutic training.

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I did training in both cognitive

and somatic psychotherapy.

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And somatic for those who don't know,

Soma is a Greek word for the body.

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so it means something all physiological.

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and of course a lot of

psychology is very heady.

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we can spend a lot of time

in cognition and that's fine.

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But you don't experience

life through cognition alone.

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There's the emotional strata and the

physical strata of our experience.

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And what you've said there is, is

exactly what we're alluding to, isn't it?

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Come out of that head, come into the

experience of the body, those physical

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expressions, people call them emotions,

they're physical expressions, as

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well as biological, and experience

what that's actually like for you.

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Not an idea, a concept, but a

real lived embodied experience.

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That's such a great, great example.

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How else does Tai Chi I don't

want to come to this because, I've

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been doing yoga for a long time.

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How else has Tai Chi informed

your practice perhaps as

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a professional yourself?

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And what have you learned about

your body through using Tai

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Chi as a movement discipline?

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What have you learned from

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that?

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Toby Buckle: useful when I am in

situations where I'm slightly taken

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out of my comfort zone myself.

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and I use the Tai Chi practices grounding,

which is feeling your feet on the ground,

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breathing into the belly, letting go

of the tension in the jaw and getting

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into what they call a Tai Chi state.

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But actually I call it my training or

facilitating state as much as anything or

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coaching state because it's a state where.

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I'm up, I'm there, I'm aware.

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It's not completely chilled and relaxed.

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It's actually, I'm there, I'm present

and I'm able to take on things in a way

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which I'm not if I'm not in that state.

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So having that quick access

to that is really useful.

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And the other thing is, is some

of the principles of Tai Chi.

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So in Tai Chi, when somebody's coming

towards you, the first principle

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is, is you listen and understand.

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the pressure that's coming

into the part of the body.

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And then only when you listen and

understand do you start to transform

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it and you take that pressure and you

move it away from the centre of you

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so it's no longer threatening to you.

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And that's interesting because

that's how I interpret.

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People coming at me almost verbally.

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It's like I need to listen.

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I need to understand before I start

to try and transform and take it away

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from directly being at my center.

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And so I can use those principles

really strongly of how can you

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ground yourself in the moment?

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And I teach people how to do this.

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I think it's one of the things that

should be taught in schools, to be honest.

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How can you ground yourself to take

yourself out of this res like reaction

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response to be able to actually respond?

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And your body will react quicker than your

brain, so you need to manage your body.

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And sataichi's taught me how

to manage my body, to a degree.

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I'm not saying I'm perfect.

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but it's taught me to manage my body in

a way which I just didn't have before.

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Sal Jefferies: That's such a useful

understanding the principle from, from

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touching about grounding being your

body and what you said there about, your

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body's reacting before your head and.

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It's so funny, isn't it?

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In our, in our culture, we think, Oh,

we're very much, we're thinking we're,

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we're very cognizant, very analytic.

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Our body is happening before our

thinking mind to a large extent.

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I think of the tennis player.

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So it's well known that a tennis player

does not see the ball coming at them.

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It's far too fast for a, a cognitive,

Oh, here comes the ball on the left.

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so I think it's point.

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3, 000th of a second.

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It's something like this.

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I did study it years ago.

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The body is, is picking up on this.

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So there are subtle tells.

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So if you were looking across a net at

a tennis player, an elite tennis player,

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there'll be a way that the movements

happening in the body, the rotation,

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and are what's called extra reception,

which is awareness of what is around

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us is often below conscious thinking.

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And it's such an important point.

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If we, if we don't know, so

we've really got three levels

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of understanding the world.

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I'll simplify this.

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Got extra reception,

awareness of what's around us.

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So people, movement and it could be

a car coming towards you quickly.

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It's all picking up often

below consciousness.

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We've got interoception, which

is the feeling in our body.

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So if you're having butterflies as

you described in your perhaps taking

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someone into a slightly panicky,

scary place, those butterflies.

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your information signals in your body

go up to the brain as interoception.

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What's happening in the

viscera, in the body.

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And then we've got perception, which is

how do we filter and make sense of what

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on earth is that stuff that's happening?

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Is my coworker, colleague,

client, having a go at me?

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Do I not feel safe?

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Is it the fact that I'm

worried about this situation?

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I've got tense belly and I'm misreading.

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I'm filtering the perceptional

information through differently.

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there's a lot to be looked at here.

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And I think what I really want to share

is that so much happens mediated through

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our body, as you've alluded to already.

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that we need to be very careful of.

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If we're an analytic person, you are

missing the fact that your body is,

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is part of that information as well.

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It's a really important part.

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And I taught yoga, for a long time.

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And I saw some of the practices

from that coming into presence.

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Being with a difficult sensation, being

able to get out of your head, such as

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how long is this posture going to last?

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It's killing me.

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That's our thoughts are running.

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And then of course, after a

while, okay, I'm, I'm with that.

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So these Eastern disciplines

really teach us a lot.

356

:

Toby Buckle: And I think that's

really interesting to spread it out

357

:

to actually it's, it's awareness of

others and it's awareness of yourself.

358

:

I love that.

359

:

And it's awareness of what's going on.

360

:

And I think we in this Western

culture particularly often delete so

361

:

much information and we're just not.

362

:

paying attention to it at all.

363

:

And as soon as you are aware, like for

example, I know when I'm slightly tense,

364

:

my left hand starts to clench slightly.

365

:

And now I'm, because I'm aware of that,

I'll often be in meetings or do whatever,

366

:

and I'll go, Oh, that's interesting.

367

:

My left hand's just gone slightly tense.

368

:

I'm now aware that I'm slightly tense.

369

:

And now I'll be going,

is that okay or not?

370

:

Okay.

371

:

Without, just being aware

of things for yourself.

372

:

is wonderful.

373

:

But that thing of noticing others as

well, because once you become aware of

374

:

your own body, you notice others, but

you've got to do that with caution and

375

:

go, okay, so they're moving in a certain

way, they're doing certain things.

376

:

And we tend to project what

that would mean onto them.

377

:

And there's all these things out there

on the internet or wherever about what

378

:

this body language means, this and that.

379

:

And it's a bit like, oh,

they folded their arms.

380

:

That must mean they're defensive.

381

:

And it's Or they've got cold hands.

382

:

what does it really mean?

383

:

And so actually paying attention and

understanding people's movements and

384

:

what they're doing and getting to

understand their habitual movements

385

:

and when are they like that?

386

:

When are they like this?

387

:

That's the depth of relationship I

think you need to start building when

388

:

you're in management and leadership

is not only understanding how somebody

389

:

thinks but how they respond and you can

only do that by understanding the body.

390

:

Sal Jefferies: Lovely.

391

:

Yeah.

392

:

Really powerful.

393

:

And it's such a key point.

394

:

Some of my recent episodes have

had guests, also, really high

395

:

level professionals like yourself,

Toby, saying a similar message.

396

:

We need human connection.

397

:

Yes, we'll have video

calls, and it's great.

398

:

Remote working, it can have a

really good place, but not at the

399

:

expense of real human connection.

400

:

We're meant to meet with social species.

401

:

We're hardwired.

402

:

We've got neurons in the brain

called mirror neurons, which

403

:

are designed for empathy.

404

:

We are hardwired to be with each other.

405

:

There's nothing wrong with technology.

406

:

It allows us to do great things.

407

:

But we don't want to become a slave to it.

408

:

Otherwise, then you've just,

you're no longer leading.

409

:

Leadership starts with self leadership.

410

:

So it's really important

to own that understanding.

411

:

And, and of course, really good leadership

starts with self awareness and that is a

412

:

mind and a body and a presence experience.

413

:

and of course it's

cultivating it continuously.

414

:

It's not, you don't want one course

like, Oh, I'm really aware now, you keep.

415

:

Keep the work going.

416

:

For those who's thinking, okay, cool.

417

:

This all sounds good.

418

:

Yeah.

419

:

I want to do some more body

related stuff, but I'm so busy.

420

:

I haven't got time.

421

:

I hear these, reasons.

422

:

Let's be gentle.

423

:

These reasons.

424

:

Now I get it.

425

:

And I've got a lot of clients

that are super, super busy.

426

:

And I understand that time is squeezed.

427

:

It is squeezed for a lot of

people and we have to make.

428

:

careful decisions on

how we spend that time.

429

:

How would you, and how are you going

about suggesting to people you're

430

:

working with about, okay, we need

to integrate the body and we need to

431

:

create some movement work of some kind.

432

:

How are you starting to bring this

in so people are not only able to

433

:

do it, but they're bypassing any

resistance that might come up?

434

:

Toby Buckle: It's a good question.

435

:

And I think it varies for individual

to individual quite a lot, but there's

436

:

some general things which help.

437

:

So in terms of people not doing things,

I think of demotivation strategies

438

:

as opposed to motivation strategies.

439

:

So rather than how can you motivate

people to do these things, I think

440

:

about, how are they stopping themselves?

441

:

What's the kind of formula, the

almost the X, Y, Z for them to

442

:

demotivate themselves to not move.

443

:

So it might be, Oh, it's too big.

444

:

It's too difficult.

445

:

I'm not feeling any energy right now.

446

:

And I've got all this other stuff to do.

447

:

If I put those threes in order, plus,

plus, plus equals not going to move.

448

:

And so it's actually, it's working

with some of those and going

449

:

actually, how can you shrink maybe

the size of it if that's the thing?

450

:

And do the smallest amount.

451

:

What's the micro stuff you can do?

452

:

I know you were talking in the previous

podcast about, chair stretches and, how

453

:

you can just do stuff in your chair.

454

:

So you don't even have to leave

the chair to do some stuff

455

:

if that's where you're at.

456

:

But I think for me, what I just

suggest is how can you change your

457

:

diary or get the people who put

your stuff in the diary, which is

458

:

usually what it is for my clients.

459

:

how can you get them to actually build in.

460

:

Buffer zones, so that at the end of

every meeting you get a chance to

461

:

stretch and reflect because one of

the things which we don't often have

462

:

is enough reflection time anyway.

463

:

So rather than going, okay, so there's

an hour meeting followed by an hour

464

:

meeting followed by an hour meeting,

you go, actually, no, it's a 50 minute

465

:

meeting and then I have a 10 minute break.

466

:

And in that break, I can stand

up, I can go somewhere, I can do

467

:

something just moving a little bit.

468

:

If you're working from home.

469

:

Go and make a cup of tea and walk

around, if you're in the office, go

470

:

and just, go somewhere that requires

a little bit of movement because

471

:

anything is better than nothing.

472

:

If you just break it up a little bit.

473

:

if you're in the office, I like to find

excuses, to go and do some movement.

474

:

so I used to when I was a manager.

475

:

actually go around and water

the plants on our office floor.

476

:

And people were like, it's crazy,

you're a senior manager, why

477

:

are you watering the plants?

478

:

And I'd be like, two reasons.

479

:

One, gets me moving.

480

:

Second reason, it gets me to

incidentally meet everyone on the floor.

481

:

Because I'm just walking

around without purpose.

482

:

Just for half an hour.

483

:

So it's actually, how can you

build in a kind of covert and

484

:

over objective around movement?

485

:

So that actually you're moving

and doing something else.

486

:

So I talked before about, maybe

have a phone call where you go for

487

:

a walk and talk, or if you've got

a meeting in person with somebody,

488

:

suggest you go for a walk and a talk.

489

:

And the amount of people who

don't even do that is because they

490

:

just haven't thought about it.

491

:

I was working with a group at a university

the other week, and they've got this

492

:

lovely park round 15 minutes through the.

493

:

walkway from them and out of 30 people

zero had been to that parkland to have

494

:

a walk around and many of 10 or 15 years

because it just hadn't even occurred

495

:

that that was okay because they made

a rule in their head that it wasn't

496

:

okay, they told themselves a story.

497

:

It's not okay to do that.

498

:

So what I think is how can you

challenge some of the stories that

499

:

you've made around how you work?

500

:

And how can you create better stories

which involve just doing some movement?

501

:

Sal Jefferies: Yeah.

502

:

Wonderful.

503

:

Wonderful.

504

:

because it's a story and our

mind is actually a habit.

505

:

The story of ourself is a habit.

506

:

It's an elegant story that weaves together

in some, what seems a coherent fashion,

507

:

but it's all a clever trick of the mind.

508

:

So the very clever cognitive

scientists say, and you're right.

509

:

If we go to our work space, and

particularly if you're desk bound,

510

:

you're a knowledge worker, and

there's a lot of sitting involved,

511

:

very easy to be in that zone.

512

:

So it's not to say, let's not do that.

513

:

It's like, how can you integrate?

514

:

And I think the first question, and

it's a question I posed to a coaching

515

:

client I had, how can you move more?

516

:

And we basically did a brainstorm.

517

:

And one of the questions, and

this is one of my sort of coaching

518

:

go tos, is what can you do more?

519

:

But I also go to the other side

and say, what aren't you doing?

520

:

So we go through, I'm not going upstairs.

521

:

Okay.

522

:

I'm not running upstairs in London.

523

:

I'm taking the elevator.

524

:

Okay.

525

:

I'm getting a delivery instead

of walking to the place to

526

:

grab some, some food for lunch.

527

:

Okay.

528

:

So then we start to see what we can

do and also where the holes are.

529

:

And then there's a, there's a,

people's minds are brilliant.

530

:

most people in leadership manager

are very clever people, and it

531

:

doesn't take long to go, Hmm, okay,

I can ex, I can solve this problem.

532

:

I can really change this.

533

:

So the answer can become quickly.

534

:

I, I love what you said, make

it covert and make it overt.

535

:

It's such a great strategy,

but I think keep it simple,

536

:

it's such a, I had a client.

537

:

And I suggested she got active.

538

:

She seeked a PT.

539

:

She wasn't in my area.

540

:

I went really full on, of course,

not long later, got a serious injury

541

:

because her body wasn't conditioned.

542

:

And it's something I speak to

around, because I work with

543

:

strength and conditioning as

well, and in the physical domain.

544

:

There's a lot of things in the

fitness, healthy area, which

545

:

says, Oh, 12 weeks to a new body.

546

:

And it's just, it's, it might be 12

weeks to some change and that's okay.

547

:

And that's, that's a good thing.

548

:

But is it sustainable?

549

:

And if you're going too hard too

quick, you're pushing your muscles

550

:

fine, but if your soft, your

connective tissue isn't ready for it.

551

:

Let's start with gentle walking every day,

the stairs every day, going up and down,

552

:

as you said, making calls on the phone.

553

:

All of these pieces then become

compound interest, if you will.

554

:

And they build and they build and

then start to bring in, it could

555

:

be Tai Chi, it could be strength

and conditioning, it could be some

556

:

running, but layer it in a long term.

557

:

So I think this is one

of the things I see.

558

:

People want a quick win.

559

:

It's that simple.

560

:

Your body's not going anywhere,

or it's going to fail.

561

:

It's that simple.

562

:

It's not going anywhere,

or it's going to fail.

563

:

So what are you going to do?

564

:

What are you going to do?

565

:

And I have someone who lives with an

autoimmune condition, which can wipe

566

:

me out, so I know how, illness can be

really tough for people, and I know

567

:

it's not always easy, So I get it.

568

:

I really do.

569

:

But at every junction, it's

like, how can I move more?

570

:

What could I do today?

571

:

I think it's a really important

question to hold in one's mind.

572

:

Toby Buckle: And I love that bit around

sustainability because it is so common

573

:

for people to go, I'm just going to max

out this because I've really, they've

574

:

reached a point of what I call away from

motivation where they realize there's

575

:

a problem and they want to get as far

away from the problem as possible.

576

:

And then they just do it and until the

point where that diminishes and they

577

:

are far away enough from the problem, so

therefore I don't need to do it anymore.

578

:

And then, lo and behold, and a few

months later, they're back to where

579

:

the problem is and they move again to

try and move away from that problem.

580

:

And that's not a sustainable

long term strategy.

581

:

It's a good kickstart,

but it's not in there.

582

:

I think one of the elements

is that you've got to find

583

:

something that you enjoy doing.

584

:

Don't go out there and find something

which you just think oh, that's a chore.

585

:

It's almost like this puritanical

thing of if I'm going to do something

586

:

healthy, it's got to be really

like hard work and bad for me and

587

:

I've got to be miserable doing it.

588

:

And it's what?

589

:

Seriously, why not do something

you enjoy and you're capable

590

:

of and gives you pleasure?

591

:

you might have to search

around a fair bit to find that.

592

:

But, there's so much stuff around there.

593

:

It might just be put on a bit of

music and have a little boogie on

594

:

your own in the kitchen, right?

595

:

That's a, yeah, if that's your

thing, do that thing rather than

596

:

the thing that you've got to

go to a gym if you hate gyms.

597

:

What is it that'll actually work

for you in terms of enjoyment?

598

:

That will build in sustainability.

599

:

Sal Jefferies: Yeah.

600

:

Yeah.

601

:

so important.

602

:

Yes.

603

:

Find something which you certainly

don't hate is the first one.

604

:

I wouldn't say to that.

605

:

So I, a little quick story.

606

:

When I started yoga, so those,

those who know me from the past, I

607

:

taught yoga for more than a decade.

608

:

I took a lot of classes and

workshops and all kinds of things.

609

:

And quite renowned in

the area I was doing.

610

:

When I started it, I was awful.

611

:

And not only was I awful at

it, I absolutely hated it.

612

:

I was like, oh this is

awful, this is horrible.

613

:

In terms of, I just felt awkward,

and clunky, the only bloke in the

614

:

class, but I did feel good afterwards.

615

:

And one thing I would say is that

if we have a quick win mindset,

616

:

that's going to cause you problems.

617

:

So address that straight away, but make

some capacity for staying with something.

618

:

So that might look like Zumba and

it might look like a dance class, or

619

:

it might look like a swimming club.

620

:

It doesn't matter, but give it a

bit a bit of time, give it a little

621

:

bit of time because I think we can

have this ricochet effect where

622

:

we're like, Oh, I didn't like it.

623

:

It's not for me.

624

:

the first time I went to a CrossFit

gym, I was absolutely intimidated.

625

:

I was, compared to the young

athletes I was training with,

626

:

I was absolutely rubbish.

627

:

And I was like, Oh, my ego

was really, really squashed.

628

:

And certainly as a man who's been brought

up on, you can't look like you fail

629

:

because there's shame involved with that.

630

:

That was not an easy place for me.

631

:

Thank goodness I do the work that I do.

632

:

And I have coaching and done years

of psychology and therapy that

633

:

I could be with that discomfort.

634

:

But what it gave me, because I allowed my

time to go, let's give it a few months and

635

:

see how I get on with this, as opposed to,

let's try a class and see if I like it.

636

:

I then went on to training four

times a week after six months and

637

:

completely changed my whole fitness

levels and that was in my mid forties

638

:

and now I train like an athlete.

639

:

I'm active all the time.

640

:

That's not to be big headed or anything.

641

:

It's just that's the discipline

because the discipline is love.

642

:

I literally love the

privilege that I can move.

643

:

It's just wonderful.

644

:

But they didn't start that way.

645

:

And I think this is one of the

things where I agree with you.

646

:

You've got to find something you like.

647

:

And don't totally hate it, but I

would add to that, give it a little

648

:

bit of time, wherever, whatever that

is, and then tie that together and,

649

:

and be kind to yourself as well.

650

:

Be kind to yourself with it.

651

:

Toby Buckle: I love that and I'd

agree you don't want to just go once

652

:

and say it's not for you, right?

653

:

That's it.

654

:

Unless it really, really,

really, really isn't right.

655

:

But you do need to give it a while.

656

:

And, my analogy is, food.

657

:

So my wife's a nutritionist.

658

:

And she talks about actually when

you're trying new food, you need to

659

:

try it about seven or eight times to

overcome that natural body reaction

660

:

of not liking it necessarily.

661

:

And which is really useful if you've

got kids, to realize, you can say,

662

:

you've only tried it four times.

663

:

You've got to give it another four times.

664

:

And then if you really don't

like it, then, then give up.

665

:

But it's kind of like, what's the

number you need to do before you

666

:

actually go through that bit of, this

is uncomfortable, this is a stretch, to

667

:

actually going, okay, now I can do this, I

can do this, I can do this, this is okay.

668

:

Sal Jefferies: Yeah, that's so important.

669

:

I believe that taste buds change

every 14 days if I'm correct.

670

:

So the recycling process of our

cells in a body, I think the taste

671

:

buds are 14 days approximately.

672

:

So yeah, absolutely.

673

:

If you taste something like, let's say,

you eat a very western diet full of

674

:

fructose and rubbish and you have lots

of veg, it's gonna taste a bit weird.

675

:

But if you then stay on that kind of

largely a plant based diet for a while.

676

:

Suddenly it tastes completely different

and you go and maybe have a, a ready

677

:

meal and God, it just has chemicals.

678

:

So yeah, for sure.

679

:

That's a big one.

680

:

And we're also talking about, I

think we're talking about a blending

681

:

to some version of you that's new.

682

:

So we're very homeostatic,

us human beings.

683

:

We like to stay with what we know.

684

:

It's how we're hardwired.

685

:

You've already alluded to this,

bringing people out of the comfort

686

:

zone, into the stretch zone.

687

:

Life is on that edge there.

688

:

That's where the cool stuff is.

689

:

And just stepping into that stretch shown

in many domains, whether it's cognitive,

690

:

whether it's professional or physical.

691

:

And I think the more we stay in comfort

is actually, it becomes, I've seen it with

692

:

certainly people in my personal sphere.

693

:

The more we shrink is the more

intimidating the world is.

694

:

The less we move, the more pain

and discomfort our body has.

695

:

And the less active we are,

the less energy we've got.

696

:

And it's, it's like it chases you

down to a place you don't want to be.

697

:

So I think when we get comfortable,

we mean with that discomfort, just a

698

:

little discomfort, like pushing those

edges a bit, trying some new stuff,

699

:

being okay with being a bit rubbish at

something for a while allows us the, I

700

:

think the permission to really change

who we are and adapt and to grow.

701

:

Toby Buckle: I love that.

702

:

And I think another thing for me is the

fact that you're not just doing it for

703

:

yourself, you're role modeling for others.

704

:

And actually quite a lot of managers

and leaders, if you tell them, actually

705

:

don't do it for yourself, do it for

your organization, they'll actually...

706

:

Do it because that's

their thing is, Oh, yeah.

707

:

Okay.

708

:

Yeah.

709

:

It's not indulgent for me.

710

:

It's actually, I need to do this for the

people at work within my organization

711

:

to show that actually this stuff

is important and it's a priority.

712

:

If you want a healthy, energized,

effective workforce, make sure they

713

:

move more often, make sure they

eat regularly, make sure they rest.

714

:

it's the symbol stuff.

715

:

Why aren't you role modeling that?

716

:

Sal Jefferies: Yeah, that's so powerful.

717

:

And it makes me think about, so if I'm

sitting in a position of leadership and

718

:

I've got, an organization of people,

what don't I want would be a question

719

:

in my mind as a leader and a manager.

720

:

What don't I want?

721

:

I don't want people off sick.

722

:

I don't want people disengaged.

723

:

I don't want people underperforming.

724

:

And I don't want burnout because

not only is that bad for our

725

:

business, it's bad for our people.

726

:

And that's just bad for everyone.

727

:

So It's both, isn't it?

728

:

It's like, where are we moving

towards with a movement led thinking

729

:

approach to life and business?

730

:

And also, what are we moving away from?

731

:

What does that actually,

what are the payoffs?

732

:

What are the rewards?

733

:

And there's plenty there.

734

:

There really is plenty there.

735

:

And, there's many people, like

Peter Atiyah is one of them.

736

:

American Doctor, he's got a book out and

does a, he's very high profile on social

737

:

media and he speaks a lot about how

movement is, if you're not moving there's

738

:

so many issues around cardiovascular

issues, cancers, diabetes, all the

739

:

things that no one wants, but there's

too much of it around and one of the...

740

:

Ways of moving away from that is

our functioning body, which is

741

:

moving towards healthy, active,

strong, dynamic, and mobile.

742

:

And it starts from the

first step, doesn't it?

743

:

it starts from, I take the stairs rather

than the elevator for the next month.

744

:

And then maybe I will do walking

meetings instead of setting meetings.

745

:

The fun, and it starts layer upon

layer, but it's, if you don't

746

:

start, you're only going to regress.

747

:

And certainly when we're at midlife,

you do not want to be regressing.

748

:

Toby, I want to ask you, because

I know you're so hot on this.

749

:

Habits.

750

:

Because we might be thinking, this is

brilliant, I'm so on board with this.

751

:

But how do we build habits to make

this become a real, tangible change?

752

:

What's, what's your way of working

people to build these habits in?

753

:

Toby Buckle: The first thing I do

is look at the motivation and make

754

:

sure the motivation stacks up.

755

:

So we do a lot of What will it look

like in the future if you manage to do

756

:

this, You've got to have a nice positive

towards so that it's there and check in

757

:

what are the pros and benefits of this

And but also what's it going to cost you?

758

:

So people often miss that bit out

because they're really keen to

759

:

just get the positives But actually

there's a question which goes in

760

:

there an ecology check and go.

761

:

Okay.

762

:

So what's this going to cost you?

763

:

to make sure they're not embarking

on something which is going to be

764

:

too onerous and cost them too much in

terms of other stuff, relationships

765

:

and all sorts of stuff can go, right?

766

:

And so checking in with that

piece first around the motivation

767

:

and then making it simple.

768

:

I like what you're saying

about, simple steps.

769

:

So break it down to a manageable chunk

size, something that's doable within

770

:

the space and time available, and then

finding the right time of day for it is

771

:

often just the gold dust, which is there.

772

:

So I've got a wellbeing habit, which

is I brush my teeth twice a day.

773

:

I don't know if you do,

but I find it's good.

774

:

I think most people have managed that

wellbeing habit by our age, right?

775

:

and it's things like that where

people go, how do I do that?

776

:

You don't have to think about it.

777

:

You don't set an alarm.

778

:

You don't set a a point in

your diary to do your teeth.

779

:

You've chained it into.

780

:

I do mine after I've had my breakfast,

before I have my shower, it fits in that

781

:

slot, that's when I do it, without fail,

that's when I do it, it fits that gap.

782

:

So finding where the gap is in your

schedule or your day, where that

783

:

bit of movement fits, that habit.

784

:

And it's the same for any habits, to

be honest, if you don't find the slot

785

:

which fits where it's naturally, that's

just where it happens, that's good.

786

:

And then the bit is to try it, give

it a whirl, and then have a review

787

:

period where you give yourself feedback

on how's that going, as opposed to,

788

:

I tried that and then I gave up.

789

:

Actually, what's your review period?

790

:

How are you going to go, okay,

That's worked for this long, but

791

:

then it didn't work on that occasion

and what was different about that?

792

:

Why did that happen?

793

:

What do I need to do differently?

794

:

Those simple feedback questions

for yourself or get somebody

795

:

else to do it for you.

796

:

An accountability partner is brilliant

for, habits as you probably know.

797

:

being as that's what you

are for most people on that.

798

:

it's, it's one of those things

where you just teach it as not a

799

:

failure, but a chance for feedback.

800

:

That makes the golden difference

because it takes a while

801

:

often to get a habit to form.

802

:

the research doesn't show that

it's a particular length of time or

803

:

it's a particular amount of times.

804

:

It depends on the complexity of

the task and how often you're going

805

:

to do it over a period of time.

806

:

So if you're doing something

many times in the day, that will

807

:

become a habit quite quickly.

808

:

But if you're only doing it once a week,

you've got to accept it's going to take

809

:

a while for that to become a habit.

810

:

It's not going to be a habit.

811

:

On the fourth time you do it,

it's probably going to take

812

:

a wee while to get there.

813

:

So those are the things which I try

to build in and explain to people

814

:

and go, okay, so let's go there.

815

:

Let's go there.

816

:

let's have a review period and

see how that habits embedding.

817

:

And you'll know when it's

become a habit because you no

818

:

longer have to think about it.

819

:

You just do it.

820

:

Sal Jefferies: Yeah, really really cool.

821

:

I'm thinking of James Clear's works.

822

:

There's two people I follow, James

Clear and Charles Duhigg, both

823

:

specialists in the habit field.

824

:

And James Clear made a really simple

model, but one of his, his, his

825

:

pieces was to create a compelling

reason because behaviour is

826

:

really, behaviour is an expression.

827

:

So if you are someone who goes to the

gym, goes for a run, goes for a swim,

828

:

that's an expression, that's an action,

that's expressing something of about you.

829

:

And as I said to you, I, in my mind,

I'm not an athlete as such, I'm not

830

:

running, I'm not competing for much,

and so some people might call me out.

831

:

But in terms of.

832

:

I just need to see it for me.

833

:

If I think I'm an athlete,

what does an athlete do?

834

:

they, they go down the gym,

they do the training, they

835

:

keep learning about the body.

836

:

They find ways to enjoy that

process and to be in the game.

837

:

Whereas a person who doesn't see

themselves as an athlete, won't.

838

:

Case in point, those of

us, we all know this one.

839

:

Has anyone done the New Year

thing of, I'll start running.

840

:

January 1st, you got, you got your

great new trainers on, your new gear.

841

:

And you're running, and it's miserable,

and it's dark, and you stick it out

842

:

until the third week, and then you bail.

843

:

And the reason we bail, it's not

because the intention's not there.

844

:

It's not because the

trainers weren't right.

845

:

And yeah, the weather can be tough.

846

:

It's because we didn't have a

compelling enough reason to do it.

847

:

We didn't have enough of a timeline.

848

:

You're not going to become

a runner in a month.

849

:

Give it, give it three years.

850

:

Then you'll probably

become, quote, a runner.

851

:

And the other thing is, is your identity.

852

:

So if you always say,

I'm not a gym person.

853

:

And you try to go to the gym, you will,

the mind will actually, the predictive

854

:

brain will say, this isn't the right

environment and move away from that.

855

:

And then of course, it will bias you and

say, of course we're not a gym person.

856

:

Why would I go to the gym?

857

:

So be very careful of the identity that

we hold about ourselves, whoever we are

858

:

and thinking, how do I describe myself?

859

:

Because, That is also something we own.

860

:

If we're conscious, as you alluded to

earlier on in our conversation, if we're

861

:

conscious about what's my identity,

I am statements, they are flexible.

862

:

There's some, there's some fluidity

in that, because if you are out for a

863

:

gentle run, say you're doing a little

couple of miles or something simple,

864

:

at that point, you are a runner.

865

:

By true definition, you are taking

the act, so be very careful of the

866

:

self sabotage identity piece, which

I know Drew Hicks spoke about and

867

:

James Clear spoke about, and I would

add that to what you've said there.

868

:

It's so important for building habits,

and no, it doesn't take 90 days.

869

:

That's just silly.

870

:

I love what you said about complexity

because that's the truth of it.

871

:

So get rid of these timelines.

872

:

Go long term.

873

:

what, how am I going to

be in five years time?

874

:

I'm in a far better attitude than if I do

this exercise or this movement process.

875

:

What's going to happen next week?

876

:

Will you just go next week?

877

:

But what's going to happen next

year is the interesting question.

878

:

What's going to happen when you retire?

879

:

You're going to feel good.

880

:

or are you just, you're

going to be in a bad shape.

881

:

So long game thinking

and I would be gentle.

882

:

it's such a tough thing

in the male domain.

883

:

We, we're often very hard, but I know

some of my female clients are too.

884

:

Very tough on ourselves, push, push, push.

885

:

Commit, consistent.

886

:

But a little gentleness as well

because, you don't want to be beating

887

:

yourself up to do this movement stuff.

888

:

It wants to be integrated

into your way of being.

889

:

And I think for me, that seems to be much

more sustainable and functional as well.

890

:

Toby Buckle: that bit about identity.

891

:

I wholeheartedly agree with that and that

sense of Making sure that the idealised

892

:

you is, is realistic and actually

attractive to you, because somebody once

893

:

said we're always trying to move into

the idealised you, we're always running

894

:

slightly behind the idealised self.

895

:

And people have this idea that

actually, Oh, the idealized self is

896

:

just they don't really buy into that.

897

:

They don't really see themselves as that.

898

:

They don't think I am.

899

:

And I love that bit about, you

are a runner if you're running.

900

:

you are a healthy person if you're

trying to look after your body.

901

:

whether you're healthy in that moment

or not, you're trying to be healthy.

902

:

And it's that being, are you

being, are you doing those things,

903

:

which is really, fundamental.

904

:

Absolutely.

905

:

And the compelling reasons,

absolutely agree with.

906

:

you need that long term towards

motivation of I want to be like this.

907

:

I think you also need a really compelling,

what I call a big away from or kick

908

:

up the bum motivation in the moment.

909

:

sometimes on a cold, wet morning,

I don't always feel like doing some

910

:

of the exercise outside that I do.

911

:

my compelling away from reason is, is...

912

:

I visualise myself lying in bed

having had a stroke and my kids

913

:

coming up and talking to me.

914

:

That's quite powerful.

915

:

People go, what?

916

:

And I go, but it needs to be that

big for me to then get out of bed,

917

:

which is really, that's ideal for

me at the moment, that warm, comfy

918

:

bed, but it needs to be that really

big punchiness to get me out there.

919

:

So figure out when do you need

that, punchy kind of kick up

920

:

the what's it to get out there

and do it if that's your thing.

921

:

Sal Jefferies: Really nice.

922

:

And it's, it's, it's, yeah, I

guess that's leveraging the, the

923

:

predictive brain's ability of anxiety.

924

:

Oh my God, what if this happened?

925

:

It's it could really, really could.

926

:

And we may have all come across people

who've had difficult things happen to

927

:

them, which can be tragic and difficult.

928

:

And it can happen to each of us,

whether it's an illness, an accident.

929

:

So if that reason's yeah, I don't want

to be, I dunno, whatever it is, ill,

930

:

for some reason or have that, that

difficult thing happen to me, then I'm

931

:

damn well gonna do something about it.

932

:

And.

933

:

If I can find autonomy in my

own world, it's very powerful.

934

:

If I can help that with another person,

it feels very powerful and important.

935

:

So if, if any of us can create autonomy,

it doesn't matter so much how we

936

:

get that, whether it's that kick up

the bum, as you say, or the, the,

937

:

I'm going to be this type of person,

autonomy and action is traction.

938

:

It will create change.

939

:

There's nothing beats action ever.

940

:

So action really is powerful.

941

:

So getting there is, is, is

our most important thing.

942

:

Wow, Toby, I'm wanting to summarize.

943

:

We've covered a lot of different things

here, and I want to summarize because

944

:

you have, so much experience and

knowledge in terms of practicalities.

945

:

So if we're listening and we're thinking,

cool, this is, this is really vibing,

946

:

I've, I've really taken on board some

stuff, but let's, let's, how can our

947

:

listener really integrate some of

these practices into their working

948

:

practice, in fact their day practices?

949

:

What would you suggest as a kind of a

summary of what we've covered so far?

950

:

Toby Buckle: I would say figure

out where you are at the moment

951

:

and where you want to be and why.

952

:

So that's the fundamental starting

point is, where are you now?

953

:

Are you doing enough in your head

without being too judgy about it and

954

:

without being too comparative, but going

in terms of my movement, my tendency

955

:

to do movement, am I doing enough?

956

:

If you're not, how much

would you like to be doing?

957

:

Realistically and be really realistic

about how much you want to do and then

958

:

at that point you can start to go Okay,

so I what sort of little things could I

959

:

start doing straight away because people

have a tendency to put it off and go Oh,

960

:

I you know, I've realized not doing it

so I'll make a big plan and maybe I'll

961

:

start next year sometime and it's actually

What could you do just straight away

962

:

which would make a little difference?

963

:

Some of those things I talked about

just walking on the phone while you're

964

:

talking or you know those little things,

build those in and then if you want to

965

:

do more find the things and try little

prototypes of, okay so maybe I could try

966

:

that thing or that thing or that thing,

give them long enough like we said.

967

:

to give them a whirl, but just

treat it as little experiments.

968

:

I'm going to find something

which will actually get me long

969

:

term to where I want to get to.

970

:

and that's the thing that will sustain me

and that will become my thing, which is

971

:

just, I don't even need to build it in.

972

:

It just becomes a habit because

I've done it and done it and done

973

:

it, and that's where I'll get to.

974

:

Sal Jefferies: So here's what

I would say for, for a summary.

975

:

We want to look at the movement in our day

and we want to look at bigger movements.

976

:

So movement in the day might

look like, how much can I get up?

977

:

Can I do the walking and

talking on the phone?

978

:

But remembering things such as if we

get up, the major muscle groups in

979

:

our body, they talk to the metabolic

system and regulate blood sugars.

980

:

So if there are weight gain issues or

anything like diabetes or on the edge of

981

:

that, that's a metabolic issue that can

be strongly influenced by the amount of

982

:

movement or lack thereof you're doing.

983

:

So motivation there.

984

:

I leave things at the top of my roof.

985

:

I've got, three stories.

986

:

I purposely leave stuff up there

so I have to go back up and get it.

987

:

And people might say you're wasting time.

988

:

No, no, no, no.

989

:

You can't waste time.

990

:

This is another thing I want to call out.

991

:

You can use time for better

reasons and for less better

992

:

reasons, but you can't waste it.

993

:

You can't actually waste time.

994

:

You can just do

ineffective things with it.

995

:

So if you're going up and down the

stairs to get stuff or using the

996

:

loo on the fifth floor or something

like that, in my viewing, it's

997

:

That's a little cardio movement.

998

:

That's a little opportunity to move.

999

:

And when you look at it differently,

that can have a big shift.

:

00:48:01,611 --> 00:48:03,161

And then to the big movement staff.

:

00:48:03,161 --> 00:48:06,801

So we're talking about strength work,

cardio work, getting things really going.

:

00:48:07,401 --> 00:48:10,721

If you're not sure there's

amazing resources online.

:

00:48:11,031 --> 00:48:12,221

We're really gifted with that now.

:

00:48:12,221 --> 00:48:14,091

There's a great things

online that you can follow.

:

00:48:14,581 --> 00:48:18,601

And if you're really not sure, get a,

get a coach, get a PT, get someone who

:

00:48:18,601 --> 00:48:20,741

works in this space to work with you.

:

00:48:21,641 --> 00:48:24,081

Because that can really shift

it so you're not on your own.

:

00:48:24,081 --> 00:48:27,141

So those two spaces I think is really

important to think about movement.

:

00:48:27,701 --> 00:48:30,591

The subtle, the everyday, and then

perhaps the bigger stuff, which

:

00:48:30,591 --> 00:48:31,881

you might want to lean towards.

:

00:48:33,220 --> 00:48:33,770

Toby Buckle: I love that.

:

00:48:33,950 --> 00:48:37,630

And I would add for managers,

particularly in leaders, see it

:

00:48:37,640 --> 00:48:39,230

as part of your responsibility.

:

00:48:39,730 --> 00:48:42,610

As a leader and a manager in

the organisation, it's your

:

00:48:42,610 --> 00:48:44,300

responsibility to be energised.

:

00:48:44,610 --> 00:48:48,340

It's your responsibility to be able

to manage your stress and find ways

:

00:48:48,340 --> 00:48:52,240

of dealing with whatever stress is

to you, being able to deal with that.

:

00:48:52,630 --> 00:48:56,140

And it's also your responsibility

to understand yourself and your body

:

00:48:56,140 --> 00:49:00,440

responses and get more familiar with

how you respond at a body level.

:

00:49:00,820 --> 00:49:04,360

because then you'll be much

better at doing your job and

:

00:49:04,360 --> 00:49:05,680

you'll be a role model for others.

:

00:49:05,960 --> 00:49:07,550

And I think that's what

being a leader is about.

:

00:49:08,048 --> 00:49:08,338

Sal Jefferies: Perfect.

:

00:49:08,508 --> 00:49:09,288

Absolute summary.

:

00:49:09,418 --> 00:49:09,668

Yeah.

:

00:49:09,698 --> 00:49:10,588

Great leadership, huh?

:

00:49:10,658 --> 00:49:11,258

Great leadership.

:

00:49:11,908 --> 00:49:13,128

Dear listener, thank you.

:

00:49:13,128 --> 00:49:15,098

I hope there is lots you

have gleaned from that.

:

00:49:15,098 --> 00:49:20,068

Remember, go back, make notes, grab

the summary, do what you need to do.

:

00:49:20,228 --> 00:49:20,908

Take action.

:

00:49:21,088 --> 00:49:23,288

If you only do one

thing, take some action.

:

00:49:23,418 --> 00:49:27,158

I implore you to do Toby, thank

you for joining me today for

:

00:49:27,158 --> 00:49:30,548

sharing your knowledge experience

and I deeply appreciate it.

:

00:49:30,828 --> 00:49:32,468

Dear listener, I'll see

you on the next one.

:

00:49:32,888 --> 00:49:33,012

Take

:

00:49:34,405 --> 00:49:36,055

Thank you so much for listening.

:

00:49:36,325 --> 00:49:39,895

If you enjoyed the episode,

please subscribe and if a friend

:

00:49:39,895 --> 00:49:42,985

would benefit from hearing this,

do send it on to them as well.

:

00:49:44,185 --> 00:49:47,185

If you would like to get in touch

yourself, then you can go to my website,

:

00:49:47,425 --> 00:49:56,095

which is sal jeffries.com, spelled S

A L J E F E R I E s sal jeffries.com.

:

00:49:56,395 --> 00:49:59,755

Hit the get in touch link and there

you can send me a direct message.

:

00:50:00,700 --> 00:50:03,580

If you'd like to go one step further

and learn whether coaching could help

:

00:50:03,580 --> 00:50:08,260

you overcome a challenge or a block

in your life, then do reach out and

:

00:50:08,260 --> 00:50:11,650

I offer a call where we can discuss

how this may be able to help you.

:

00:50:12,520 --> 00:50:14,440

Until the next time, take care.

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About the Podcast

Mindset, Mood & Movement: Performance, Purpose & Peace
Human performance podcast for life and business
Welcome to the Mindset, Mood & Movement Podcast. Your essential resource for founders, freelancers, and business owners looking to optimise their mindset, health, and business success.

Dive deep into the realm of human performance with us as we explore the systemic connections between psychology, emotions, and physical wellbeing, and their profound impact on achieving success and fulfilment in both personal and professional life.

Discover 3 key outcome areas: enhancing performance, redefining fulfilment, and cultivating peace of mind. Join me as I feature guest specialists in various fields, offering invaluable insights and expertise plus mini-episodes where I address specific challenge and provide actionable guidance on overcoming these obstacles.

Each episode is crafted to provide education, tools and strategies for you, whether you're navigating the complexities of entrepreneurship or seeking personal growth in your professional journey. My podcast serves as your ultimate guide to self-improvement and achieving excellence in your endeavours.

Expect to gain practical insights, delve into expert interviews, and receive actionable strategies tailored to the unique needs of small business owners and ambitious individuals striving to make a positive impact on the world.

About your host

Profile picture for Sal Jefferies

Sal Jefferies

I’m Sal - Human Performance Coach, Educator and Founder.

Everything I coach and teach is what I practice in my life. Mindset work including psychological and emotional development. And for my physical health, I do strength training, fitness and breathing practices. In all areas, I'm constantly learning and always growing.

At mid-life, I'm curious to how we can shape the second half of our life whilst using the latest science and learning's from psychology, emotional regulation and physical health. Over the last 25 years, I have immersed myself in many Eastern influences from philosophy, yoga and meditation. I find in our current world, there's much to learn by combining the latest science with ancient wisdom.

For me, working on the mind is paramount. Also, remaining fit, healthy and curious helps me increase performance, find fulfilment and create peace of mind. I believe this is important both a personal and professional life.

My professional endeavours, which inform my work, include:
Human Performance Coaching (for Founders), Contemporary Psychotherapist, Yoga Teacher, Strength & Conditioning Trainer and Breathwork Trainer. Before this latest chapter of my life, I've been a Photographer, Advertising Exec & Dancer.

When I'm not working, educating or learning, I'll be out with my dogs by the sea in Brighton, UK.