Men, The Mrs & and the Menopause

Sal Jefferies: 00:00:03

Welcome to Mindset, Mood and Movement, a systemic approach to human

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behavior, performance, and well being.

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Our psychological, emotional, and

physical health are all connected,

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and my guests and I endeavor to share

knowledge, strategies, and tools for

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you to enrich your life and work.

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Hello and welcome.

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Today, I am talking about

a fascinating subject, men,

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the misses and the menopause.

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Now stay with me here.

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It's a really important

subject for men in particular.

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my female listeners, of course, it's

super important for you, but I wanted

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to come today from this, from both the

male and female perspective and bring

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in a specialist who really knows all

about menopause and can really help both

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myself and all of us understand more.

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And there's.

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A lot of reason why as men, we need

to know about the menopause because

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if you don't have a partner, you might

have a sibling, a friend, a colleague,

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a coworker, someone with you is

likely to be experiencing menopause

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at somewhere in their midlife area.

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And it's absolutely vital that we

understand what's happening for both.

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Us as men for women and

us as people together.

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So the whole thing together.

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so I'm delighted to be joined by Tanith

Lee and she goes by the name Mrs.

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Menopause.

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So she is a super specialist.

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I've known Tanith a while and she

knows so much about this subject.

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So I'm super grateful

that she's joining us.

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Hello Tanith.

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Tanith Lee: Hello Sal.

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It's so good to be here.

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Thank you for this opportunity

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Sal Jefferies: very welcome.

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They're very welcome.

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I'm delighted to, to get

your wisdom and knowledge.

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and in some ways it feels slightly

unusual for a man to be quite,

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forthright and outspoken about

the menopause, but for, for, for

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all of us, I wanted to share them.

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And by the way, I have full,

so full, full disclosure.

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I have full permission to

talk about, my personal world.

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my partners have been

happy to say this is okay.

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So in my own life, my partner's

going through perimenopause and

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my Goodness, have we seen this has

been a challenge, she's had huge

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challenge years and I'll bring some

of the examples to today's episode.

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and as a man, I've had challenges because

I'm part of that relationship too.

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it's not just happening to

her, it's happening to us.

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So it's absolutely vital that we all

understand this better so that we can make

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the best actions, choices, and processes.

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So Tanith, Can I, can I ask you a

little bit more about where you are

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at with, with your work at the moment?

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Cause you, I understand you work

with women and menopause, but give

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us a little bit more about how you're

working with, with people you do

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and how you approach dealing with

this big subject of the menopause.

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Tanith Lee: Sure, thanks.

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do you want me to share a little bit

of what kind of got me the name Mrs.

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Sal Jefferies: I'd love to.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Let's take us back a little bit.

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So we understand your origin.

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Tanith Lee: the, I was, diagnosed, that's

a terrible word for it, but I can't think

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of another one to use with menopause

in my kind of mid to late thirties.

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and I'm now 51.

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So a little while ago.

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And, being the person I am,

I'm quite honest and open

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and like to share this stuff.

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And I was doing that on social media

and, people wanted to know more about

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it, particularly my peers at the time.

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I'm in, I teach a little bit of fitness.

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And so my peers were really interested

because back then really nobody

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was talking about menopause at all.

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And, the name came about

my mentor at the time.

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Someone's talked to him about asking

about something about menopause and he

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said, Oh, you need to talk to Tanith.

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She's Mrs.

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Menopause.

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And that is literally how,

how the name came about.

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And I went, Oh, that says what it is.

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So let's, let's just go with that.

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And literally, that's how it all started.

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I started talking about

it from, from then.

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so I was just sharing blogging.

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really about my own experience, my

struggle to get help, my struggle, to

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understand what was going on for me.

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And, and the more I talked about, as I

say, lots of people want to understand it.

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And then I thought, I can help,

I can help other women with this.

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I can, I can do that.

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So it started with exercise and

then I knew I wanted to work

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on a bit of a deeper level.

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So then I decided to be trained

as a nutritional therapist.

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which is so much more than just nutrition.

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It's, lifestyle coaching

and stuff as well.

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and then I, then I started to

learn how I could really help

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women on a, on a much deeper level.

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So I work one to one.

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I like doing group work as well.

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I like doing both of those things and

that's, that's really how I help women

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with their, with their menopause stuff.

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Sal Jefferies: Got it.

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Cool.

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That's really good to know.

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And, and of course we've, we've,

I've known Tanith for, over the

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years, in various, respects and.

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And of course, it's very easy for the

unknowing, whether you're male or female,

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it doesn't matter, there's a lot of

myths around, a lot of not knowing, and

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of course I've been pulled into this,

not just for my personal life, but my

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sister as well, my older sister, a lot

of my female clients, so I'm very much

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around perimenopause understanding

conversation from a man's outside

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perspective, so I'm not going to say I

understand what it what it feels like.

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But I understand what it's like

to be with that in many contexts.

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And of course, there's

an idea, isn't there?

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That, this happens to ladies in

their late fifties of a certain age.

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You know, all these horrible cliches,

and that you get some hot sweats.

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And it's okay, that's just,

we need to stop this rubbish.

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and I found, I know someone.

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She also went through an early menopause.

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I think in her late late twenties.

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So we need to be understanding

that this can happen.

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there's certain...

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Bandwidths aren't there roughly around

40 to 60 is the bandwidth but it can

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happen at different ages And so we want to

bust some myths today and one thing that

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strikes me It's important as a man whether

it's your partner or your your friend or

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your colleague You might notice something

going on because I noticed something

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going like you seem a bit different at

the moment and Seem a little bit edgy

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or whatever it is And I think it's

interesting as a man if we see something

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Have the understanding that there may be

menopausal process starting to happen,

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say perimenopause, as it's called.

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And Tanith, you've said to me, and I'd

like to get your deeper thoughts on

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it, but perhaps from a woman's point of

view, you may not actually understand

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what's happening as the start of the

menopausal, the perimenopause, but as

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a man, you might observe these changes.

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So what, what on earth are we

going to be looking for from

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both an outside perspective

and from a woman's perspective?

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Tanith Lee: Such a good question.

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if anyone Googles the symptoms

of menopause, you'll get so

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many that there's, there's

many, many different symptoms.

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So it can be quite hard to spot.

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It doesn't help that the menopause,

perimenopause, so the perimenopause

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is the years leading up to

when women's final period is.

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So it's those, there's those years leading

up to that final, final menstruation.

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And that tends to be where many women,

not all, will experience various, varying

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degrees of these different symptoms.

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some women don't, about they've

potentially about 20, 25% of women don't

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actually get any symptoms, but we don't,

we don't hear so much about that, do we?

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So I just thought I'd

put in that it's not a.

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it's not necessarily guaranteed

that a woman's going to

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experience all these symptoms.

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Not at all.

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That's not how it works.

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So The symptoms generally in the

perimenopause when you're the closer a

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woman gets to her final period The more

the changes will start to happen so before

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that it may be just as you said subtle

changes like mood So that would probably

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be the most obvious one, and it's the kind

of feelings you get, a woman may get when

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she's, before her, before her period, that

PMT type feeling, a bit irritable, just

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maybe a bit sad, a bit, feeling a bit low,

those kind of symptoms we're used to women

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going through in cycles because of the,

because of the changing hormones, so that

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may become more apparent more of the time.

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and there's no, generally it's very

erratic, which for a lot of women is

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unsettling because, it can feel like

one day they're feeling okay, the

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next day they're all over the place.

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And it's, it is very unsettling.

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And so that would be the main kind

of symptoms I say with mood changes.

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As a woman gets close to a final

period, other symptoms, I know this

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is not, hard and fast kind of rules,

every woman's experience is different.

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This is what makes it so tricky

to understand, but what can happen

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then is the more common symptoms

of the perimenopal hormone changes

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are the change in temperature.

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So women feeling hot, they may get, hot

flushes or they may sweat, night sweats

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because the, the body is changing these

different hormones are fluctuating.

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So the body's trying to work out

what's going on and also, periods

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actually might start to change.

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A woman's cycle length may change.

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She may start to miss a period.

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Her flow may change as well.

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So these are all fairly kind of common

signs that something is changing.

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And these changes can happen, Hormones

are changing, from a woman really in her

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thirties, because if you think about how

fertility works, fertility rates start

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to, start to change in a woman's thirties.

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So hormonal changes are already happening.

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And then as we get into our forties,

that then starts to change as well.

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So it's, it's, yeah, it's quite,

it's quite hard to spot because

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it's quite subtle sometimes.

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Not for women to say, sorry.

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It's when we just say, just,

they just don't feel quite.

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Just don't feel quite themselves is a

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Sal Jefferies: Yeah, and, and of course

it must be so destabilizing and, and I,

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as I want to talk about this from the

female perspective that I've understood

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and had privilege to talk with other

women about, and obviously from a

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male perspective as a witness to that.

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I worked with someone once and she, she

told me that she was absolutely fine.

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Regular periods, no idea, early forties.

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The idea of menopause wasn't even on her

radar and she just suddenly developed

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allergies, like really big allergies to I

think like tree pollen or something like

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that and came out with these huge hives

of allergy things and it was someone I was

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working with and they just didn't get it.

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How am I having these allergic reactions?

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And it was actually part of this

perimenopause mix that was going on.

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Now, to the outside, of course,

you went to the doctor and the

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doctor's you probably got anxiety.

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Let's prescribe some medication.

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It's whoa, let's just

slow this down a bit.

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And by the way, I have a whole beef around

this, but yeah, giving some meds for

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anxiety rather than understand why the

body's going to a stress response is a.

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is a really naive idea.

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and yeah, why the histamine

levels are pumping up, why the

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sensitivities are pumping up.

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So I saw that from someone I work with.

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And of course they shared it with me.

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I was like, my goodness, isn't, isn't

that fascinating how you wouldn't

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really attribute, allergy to this.

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And yet it was exactly that because then

she went through this whole process.

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and then suddenly it

was like, Oh, Oh, I see.

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This is what's going on.

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And what I found from that

story was fascinating that she,

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she went to a job, a doctor.

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And they, unfortunately, they

didn't sound like they have any

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comprehension of this was on the radar.

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They were looking at the symptoms of

allergy and anxiety and going, let's

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medicate it, rather than a better

question like, what's going on for you?

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do you have children?

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She didn't.

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So early menopause was more biased towards

her because of not having children.

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And, and I think this is one of

the things I want to get out.

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It seems really important to me is that

when stuff's happening, rather than

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it's a symptom, they need to solve it.

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I think the symptom needs to be a signal.

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Okay.

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What's going on with me?

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Yeah.

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Is, is, is, is there something going on?

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And if you're, if you're a man and

you're working with a woman or it's

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your partner and you're starting to see

symptoms that are, could be anxiety.

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It could be, could be shut down,

which other people call depression.

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It could be these things

that are happening without

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seemingly obvious causation.

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I think that's some of the signals

I would say, Oh, get interested.

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Is this, is this actually starting

to blend into a perimenable

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state for my partner or for

my colleague or what have you?

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And I'm really interested, Tanith, what

are some of the, so we've spoken about

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some of the symptoms to look out for.

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What are some of the big things

that you've seen through your own

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experience and with women that,

as a woman, they need to know?

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And then we'll go to the men after this,

but as a woman, what do you need to know

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about this forthcoming perimenopause

experience and the menopause if you're,

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I don't know, let's say thirties, and

you just don't know anything about it?

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What do we need to be

prepped and ready for?

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Tanith Lee: Great question.

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And I just want to just touch on what you

just said about those signals, because

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I try not to use the word symptoms

too much in my language, because I

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just think it and the word diagnosis,

because it just makes it sound like

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it's some kind of medical condition.

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I use the word messages,

but I like signals as well.

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And I think that's.

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It's just language, but I

think it just reframes it.

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So I'm really glad you brought that up.

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I think the first thing to think about,

with menopause for, for women who are

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younger is for it not to be feared.

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So we've, we're in our age now that,

if there's information everywhere.

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And we're surrounded by all this

information and it's great, it's

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good menopause is talked about and

that's what we need to, it's good.

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We need the awareness and when we need

to feel open and I meant to talk about it

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as a part of a normal aging, transition.

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But, I think the, it's quite imbalanced.

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It's quite a negative, negative

messages around menopause.

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So I think If we can start to see

it as not necessarily all a negative

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transition, because it's if we're going,

if we're going into something with

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fear and worry, and it's, it's probably

going to make the situation worse.

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But if we can go forwards thinking,

okay, if I can look after myself in

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this way, X, Y, Z, which we can talk

about, then it's going to make my

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chances of the transition easier.

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And if I start to think about.

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The benefits of menopause, because

there are some, and of getting older,

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I think that, I think, is, is, is

really important for women, and,

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yeah, I think there's an element of

that, and I, you, you touched earlier

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about stress, and the stress response.

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And, that, that stress will make

a woman's, menopause much worse.

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and we hear that all the time.

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You need to, less stress, de stress.

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And it's trying to help women

actually see how that really

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does affect a woman's, hormones.

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So that will therefore affect her

experience of, of the menopause as well.

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so I think those, those are two things.

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And I think If we can learn to look after

ourselves and give ourselves the care and

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attention we deserve as human beings, that

will make the transition easier as well.

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Sal Jefferies: Yeah.

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nice.

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Really nice.

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and I wanted to, to speak about a couple

of things that caught my, really caught

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my attention with what you said there.

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we have this, there's a quite a

common narrative, certainly in

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our culture around, take care of

yourself, manage your stress levels.

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And I think it's, it's like

a really ambiguous concept.

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So our nervous system,

stress is not good or bad.

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It's a response.

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It's a response system to, to stress.

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Potential threats, whether they're

external, like things around you,

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or internal, such as thoughts.

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And, one of the things I find about

stress, having, using this, the mind,

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mood, movement process that I, I work

with, is everything affects each other.

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Having worked with yoga, and seeing

people down regulate, and find

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things nice, that's brilliant,

that's really, really good.

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The problem I have with that,

is it doesn't give permission

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to go into a fight state.

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Now, just caveat that, I'm not saying

punching people, I'm saying the,

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the fight state of the fight flight.

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And really what we're talking about

here is you, if you have a lift in your.

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: 00:15:45

hormonal chemistry of cortisol and

adrenaline, that kind of stuff.

307

: 00:15:48

You will, you'll be biased to take action.

308

: 00:15:51

And I think it's absolutely vital for

permission to be there to take action.

309

: 00:15:56

And that might look like I'm

going for a run, which is a way

310

: 00:15:59

of expressing the flight response.

311

: 00:16:01

It might look like I'm going to go boxing,

which is something I'm interested in.

312

: 00:16:04

about allowing permission to express.

313

: 00:16:06

It might be that I'm going to speak up.

314

: 00:16:08

All of these things are

moving towards something.

315

: 00:16:11

And I think if we create that space around

get rid of, get rid of shame, get rid of

316

: 00:16:17

silence, because they go together, add

in permission, add in conversation, and

317

: 00:16:23

communication, doesn't matter how rough

it is, let's get something going, we

318

: 00:16:26

start to loosen up all this stuff, this

hidden narrative, men shouldn't talk about

319

: 00:16:30

it, absolute nonsense, men absolutely

shouldn't be talking about this.

320

: 00:16:33

And women.

321

: 00:16:34

it's a transition, right?

322

: 00:16:36

It's going to happen.

323

: 00:16:37

It's got nothing to do with anything.

324

: 00:16:39

It's a transition.

325

: 00:16:41

So as you beautifully said, if you honor

that, work with that, that's going to

326

: 00:16:44

change everything versus resistance,

not speaking about it, burying it

327

: 00:16:50

really, really important stuff.

328

: 00:16:51

And that's what I see from a

psychological, emotional perspective

329

: 00:16:54

about people creating those changes.

330

: 00:16:56

So we spoke about what to look out for.

331

: 00:16:58

So for us, us boys, us men, eyes on.

332

: 00:17:02

You're starting to see stuff like,

okay, I know what I need to look out

333

: 00:17:05

for because I've been in the mix, but

what are you, what would you suggest

334

: 00:17:09

Tanith for men to both look out for

in women and perhaps themselves?

335

: 00:17:14

Tanith Lee: Okay.

336

: 00:17:14

So I guess it depends on

people's level of what their

337

: 00:17:17

relationships are like, aren't they?

338

: 00:17:18

yeah.

339

: 00:17:19

I don't want to talk about

my relationship or not.

340

: 00:17:21

We did talk about this

last night actually.

341

: 00:17:22

And, my, my husband just, he,

he didn't know what to do.

342

: 00:17:29

So he chose to ignore it in his own

way because he just didn't know.

343

: 00:17:34

He just didn't know what to do.

344

: 00:17:36

And of course, that's, that's just, and

I think that's maybe a common, a common

345

: 00:17:41

response to it because, if you're not used

to talking about these kinds of things.

346

: 00:17:46

it's interesting.

347

: 00:17:47

I think as a woman, we need

to understand what we need.

348

: 00:17:50

in the time, at that time,

because it's going to change.

349

: 00:17:54

Sometimes we'll need to be left alone.

350

: 00:17:57

Sometimes we'll need a hug.

351

: 00:17:59

Sometimes, we'll, we'll need something.

352

: 00:18:01

And I think that's the first step is

for women to try and identify that.

353

: 00:18:05

Sometimes that's not, that's not always

possible, but trying to identify that and

354

: 00:18:09

then communicate that to our loved ones.

355

: 00:18:13

And I think that's the bit I missed.

356

: 00:18:15

If I had been able to do that better, my

husband then would have known what to do.

357

: 00:18:21

So I, I think, I think there has to

be an element, there has to be some

358

: 00:18:25

kind of responsibility for the woman

to be able to say what she needs.

359

: 00:18:29

Otherwise, how is anyone gonna know?

360

: 00:18:33

and if she doesn't know, to say she

doesn't know, I think the more a man can.

361

: 00:18:40

He's not going to experience it,

so it's going to be really hard to

362

: 00:18:42

get that true empathy, but somehow

maybe just by listening to podcasts

363

: 00:18:48

like this, to doing, doing a bit

of research, there's some great,

364

: 00:18:51

there's some great information around.

365

: 00:18:53

And so there are, there are some bits and

pieces around written for men, what to

366

: 00:18:57

spot for, but it's just, I think it's.

367

: 00:19:00

Doing a little bit of research yourself

to understand that it's so much more

368

: 00:19:07

than a woman getting a bit grumpy

and feeling a bit hot and, her libido

369

: 00:19:11

goes because, that's a big concern.

370

: 00:19:14

That was a big concern of my

husband's and, that there is

371

: 00:19:18

more to it than, than that.

372

: 00:19:19

And I think it's been able

to have those conversations.

373

: 00:19:23

yeah, I think that's probably

the best thing they can

374

: 00:19:25

Sal Jefferies: Yeah, that's

really, really nicely put.

375

: 00:19:27

Tanith Lee: Can I just

add, just pick up on

376

: 00:19:29

something Sal, you mentioned earlier,

when you were talking about the

377

: 00:19:32

stress response, the narrative is,

for women, I think at menopause,

378

: 00:19:41

is to calm everything down.

379

: 00:19:43

Just calm, just go and zen out, and

I, and I think there's a lot to be

380

: 00:19:47

said for that, and I know we've talked

about this before, but I think that

381

: 00:19:51

That deep menopausal rage, that is

a thing, we can't suppress that.

382

: 00:19:59

It's not time to be the

good quiet girls anymore.

383

: 00:20:02

it's time, and I really, we do,

that needs to be expressed in a way.

384

: 00:20:09

and I think what you said is great,

boxing, anything like that, or whatever

385

: 00:20:13

it is, somehow to just get that rage out

in a safe, productive, a good way, I think

386

: 00:20:20

it's really important to let, as you said,

you said you use the word permission, not

387

: 00:20:24

that we need permission, but it's I think

women need to know that it's okay to feel

388

: 00:20:28

rage and to feel anger and to let it out

because a lot of that might have been

389

: 00:20:35

suppressed for a long time and as those

oestrogen levels go down and change our

390

: 00:20:41

natural maternal instincts start to lessen

and all of a sudden I'm going to say we.

391

: 00:20:48

I'm going to talk for me.

392

: 00:20:50

I'm like, actually, I am really

annoyed and whatever about

393

: 00:20:55

these situations and I am angry.

394

: 00:20:57

I've been doing this, this

and this or whatever it is.

395

: 00:20:59

And I think it's okay to express that.

396

: 00:21:02

but obviously in a way that's not going

to cause any, any harm to anybody else.

397

: 00:21:06

I think that's what I'm trying to say.

398

: 00:21:07

Yeah.

399

: 00:21:08

Sal Jefferies: yeah, absolutely.

400

: 00:21:09

And I'll echo that because it's

going on in my personal life.

401

: 00:21:12

It's going on with some

people I'm working with.

402

: 00:21:15

If we start to, if we start to shame

things like anger, like it's not okay to

403

: 00:21:19

be angry now, which is a caveat again,

we're not saying that you should be

404

: 00:21:23

screaming at people and taking it on

people that's not managing this emotion.

405

: 00:21:27

yeah, that, that can be moving towards

quite a, an aggressive state and

406

: 00:21:30

we're not suggesting that, but we

are suggesting is if there's rage, if

407

: 00:21:33

there's anger, it's a bona fide emotion.

408

: 00:21:36

It's coming up, trying to

suppress it by zenning out.

409

: 00:21:40

May not be your best strategy, so it

might look like, and so boxing works very

410

: 00:21:45

well because by default it uses, it's a

contact sport, I'm not saying boxing in

411

: 00:21:50

life, but just do a boxing class, but

there's something about when we fire

412

: 00:21:52

from the chest muscles, that's a very

sympathetic nervous system, that's a fight

413

: 00:21:56

response space, when we push from our

upper body, that's a fight response space.

414

: 00:21:59

seven billion.

415

: 00:21:59

Okay.

416

: 00:21:59

Most people don't know this.

417

: 00:22:00

If you push like pushups, you

are activating the fight response

418

: 00:22:05

and you're pressing away.

419

: 00:22:07

You're going to do a hundred press ups.

420

: 00:22:08

You're gonna feel a lot better.

421

: 00:22:09

Now, you might not be able to do

a hundred, but you, if you push

422

: 00:22:12

out seven and you're like, ah, you

have given permission for that,

423

: 00:22:16

for that biochemical electrical,

psychological process to go full circle.

424

: 00:22:21

And my sister, my sister spoke

about how she had to deal with her.

425

: 00:22:24

Perry Rager, she called it.

426

: 00:22:26

I've seen it my partner and some of

the women I've been working with.

427

: 00:22:29

And I think this is so

interesting around suppression.

428

: 00:22:33

So when I blend into my

psychotherapeutic model, anything

429

: 00:22:37

that's suppressed is bad news.

430

: 00:22:39

It's been shown in multiple

circles that you're likely to

431

: 00:22:43

move towards illness from this.

432

: 00:22:45

So suppression is bad news, full stop.

433

: 00:22:47

How you express is important.

434

: 00:22:51

So you might get some

therapeutic work done.

435

: 00:22:53

you might talk to a coach, you

might talk to TANF, a specialist,

436

: 00:22:56

you might talk to your mate.

437

: 00:22:57

It doesn't matter, but if it comes out and

it's expressed, then we don't suppress.

438

: 00:23:02

And then I think it's a really

important thing for health and

439

: 00:23:05

both mental and physical health.

440

: 00:23:08

Yeah, I just find it fascinating.

441

: 00:23:10

One thing I was going to say, I've got

another client, the information is private

442

: 00:23:14

here, but they said to me that they've

had a lot of anger coming out and they

443

: 00:23:18

went, they went some therapy a while back

before coming to my coaching practice.

444

: 00:23:21

And they realized that they buried

a lot of stuff from when they were

445

: 00:23:25

a teenage girl, when they were going

through a menstrual cycle coming on.

446

: 00:23:28

So what they found was is that

she's going through another,

447

: 00:23:31

hormonal transition in her life.

448

: 00:23:33

The echo from the past is coming back up.

449

: 00:23:36

The unfinished business

was ready to be done.

450

: 00:23:39

And it was like, Oh,

that's really interesting.

451

: 00:23:42

Thanks.

452

: 00:23:42

She worked with a trauma therapist

and they did a lot of processing.

453

: 00:23:45

And again, there's stuff coming out in

the, in the ecosystem of the mind body.

454

: 00:23:50

This ain't just a medical condition.

455

: 00:23:52

This is a, this is a whole hormonal

psychological condition and I just

456

: 00:23:56

wanted to call that out because I've

seen this from this almost professional

457

: 00:23:59

perspective from different angles

and that really intrigues me though.

458

: 00:24:02

If we understand this and

work with it better, I think

459

: 00:24:06

we want to just call it out.

460

: 00:24:08

Taniff, okay.

461

: 00:24:10

I'm a man and us men,

we like to fix things.

462

: 00:24:13

, I'm a coach and I do my

best to not fix things.

463

: 00:24:16

I help people.

464

: 00:24:16

by default men are fixers.

465

: 00:24:19

So for us fixing men who think gonna,

solve this menopause problem with

466

: 00:24:22

the misses so as men who are biased

towards fixing things, they have a

467

: 00:24:27

fix it mentality or, a sort of a,

some people can be a hero archetype

468

: 00:24:31

or saviour archetype, they're very,

let's do something about this, do.

469

: 00:24:36

When doing isn't the right

thing, what should us men be?

470

: 00:24:40

Considering, Thinking, Knowing.

471

: 00:24:43

Tanith Lee: From my personal

experience, I think being heard and

472

: 00:24:48

if not empathise with kind of, seen.

473

: 00:24:51

not being ignored.

474

: 00:24:52

I think that is, that was

my personal experience.

475

: 00:24:56

and being listened to.

476

: 00:24:57

And I think asking perhaps a

woman what, what it is she needs

477

: 00:25:05

would be a good starting point.

478

: 00:25:07

She may not know, but it would be,

even being asked that question.

479

: 00:25:11

means that you've been seen and heard.

480

: 00:25:13

And I think that's important.

481

: 00:25:15

But practically, I mean, there is,

there's loads of things that, you know,

482

: 00:25:18

if a woman is, if she's not sleeping

because she's up, maybe insomnia,

483

: 00:25:24

maybe night sweats, she's, she's

up and down, up and down all night.

484

: 00:25:28

She is exhausted.

485

: 00:25:31

That in itself, fatigue, exhaustion,

will affect any human being on any level.

486

: 00:25:38

Add that into all the other things

that are going on hormonally.

487

: 00:25:41

It's no wonder women are feeling just

absolutely knackered and stressed out

488

: 00:25:45

and just, not sure what's going on.

489

: 00:25:47

So I think actually there is, men can't

fix the menopause, but I think they can

490

: 00:25:54

do practical things to support a woman.

491

: 00:25:56

How she's feeling, so if she's tired.

492

: 00:25:59

Maybe ask if she needs more practical

help doing things, lighten the load.

493

: 00:26:04

Maybe it's doing more, doing

more in the house or, or I

494

: 00:26:07

don't know what that would be.

495

: 00:26:08

It depends on someone, but I think

that would be really helpful.

496

: 00:26:11

I think there, there are practical things

some, men can do or partners can do to

497

: 00:26:14

help their, their menopausal partner.

498

: 00:26:18

Yeah, so there are, there are things,

don't worry, there are things you can

499

: 00:26:21

fix if you want to, don't panic, there's

a list, I'm sure if you've got your

500

: 00:26:25

partner draw up a list, there'll be

lots of things that you can be getting

501

: 00:26:28

on with, so careful what you ask for.

502

: 00:26:32

Sal Jefferies: Exactly.

503

: 00:26:33

Yeah.

504

: 00:26:33

Do you know, because we're laughing at

this, but, and, and I think you need to

505

: 00:26:36

see the funny side when, things are good.

506

: 00:26:38

so between my, myself and my partner,

we should be going through these

507

: 00:26:41

roughly three month windows or cycles

and three months, things are pretty

508

: 00:26:45

good and she's, she's who she is.

509

: 00:26:48

I know her and three

months she's, she's off.

510

: 00:26:50

scaly lady.

511

: 00:26:52

with the one with the scales and you

know it's don't go near do not drop a

512

: 00:26:57

joke like that at that point it is not

going to go well and and like we can

513

: 00:27:01

joke about it when all is good and rosy

but it's it's yeah find some find some

514

: 00:27:06

lightness when you can but what i heard

in that and i just want to echo is you

515

: 00:27:11

need to know what you need oh you need

to be able to ask it both as a woman

516

: 00:27:15

as a man like like what do you need and

it probably needs to bounce back to the

517

: 00:27:19

man so like what what do you need and I

know my own, buttons have got pressed.

518

: 00:27:25

So one thing I've found as a man is

that when your partner changes and

519

: 00:27:30

they are not the person you, you met

or you got with, they, they become a

520

: 00:27:33

different version of that, of that woman.

521

: 00:27:37

It can feel, or it can trigger,

it's something that triggered for

522

: 00:27:39

me, some old patterns of rejection.

523

: 00:27:41

And that was really tough to deal with,

about how, how my stuff was coming up

524

: 00:27:46

and colouring my thinking and emotions.

525

: 00:27:49

which has nothing to do with what's

going on, but it was completely

526

: 00:27:52

triggered by the experience from my side.

527

: 00:27:55

And, and I think that's important.

528

: 00:27:57

We need to understand what our

needs are, both, both sides

529

: 00:28:00

and be able to speak of that.

530

: 00:28:02

It's just because we're not mind readers.

531

: 00:28:03

Just, just stop it.

532

: 00:28:04

No one can mind read.

533

: 00:28:05

You have to ask the question

and just get used to that.

534

: 00:28:08

What do you need today?

535

: 00:28:09

And it could bounce back.

536

: 00:28:10

Yeah.

537

: 00:28:10

Okay, cool.

538

: 00:28:10

What do you need?

539

: 00:28:11

Fine.

540

: 00:28:12

We now know, even if you don't know

what you need, the question, as you

541

: 00:28:16

beautifully said, you've been seen.

542

: 00:28:18

You've been seen and that's so important.

543

: 00:28:20

and perhaps even for, if a man's in a sort

of a insecure moment, yeah, I see you.

544

: 00:28:23

I don't know what I need, but I see you.

545

: 00:28:25

And that's, that's beautiful.

546

: 00:28:28

Talking about separating our stuff.

547

: 00:28:31

And this is coming from, from my space.

548

: 00:28:33

So as a man, it's easy to

get triggered when the person

549

: 00:28:35

that you know is different.

550

: 00:28:37

And you, your stuff comes up.

551

: 00:28:39

My, my take on it is you gotta do the

work and I have my own coach and therapist

552

: 00:28:44

and I, I'll continuously do the work that

I do with other people because why not?

553

: 00:28:48

I go to the gym all the time

and, I do my work all the time.

554

: 00:28:51

It's, it's how you stay well

and strong . It's deal with that

555

: 00:28:55

stuff that's coming up for you.

556

: 00:28:56

If it's, if you're a guy and

you're getting triggered, notice

557

: 00:28:58

it, it's really important because

you need that, that care as well.

558

: 00:29:02

And it's a great opportunity

to, to deal with.

559

: 00:29:04

Some unprocessed stuff.

560

: 00:29:08

And this brings me into

something more sensitive.

561

: 00:29:11

Intimacy.

562

: 00:29:13

Ah, okay.

563

: 00:29:14

suddenly we're not all

super lovey dovey anymore.

564

: 00:29:17

The intimacy might be going about the

window, libido's gone slightly downhill.

565

: 00:29:22

Okay, let's talk about that,

that subject which perhaps

566

: 00:29:25

doesn't get spoken about so much.

567

: 00:29:26

What's it like from a woman's

perspective when you know who you

568

: 00:29:29

are, you know how your body feels

and how you are in your relationship

569

: 00:29:32

and suddenly you don't feel the same.

570

: 00:29:34

What's that like for you?

571

: 00:29:38

Tanith Lee: hmm.

572

: 00:29:39

So I, I can talk from my own experience.

573

: 00:29:43

the menopause experience for

me was more psychological.

574

: 00:29:50

So I didn't really have so many of

the physical issues to start with.

575

: 00:29:56

they're catching up a little

bit now, but I didn't have.

576

: 00:29:59

hot flushes during the day.

577

: 00:30:01

I had terrible night sweats.

578

: 00:30:02

but I didn't, I didn't, I never

tallied the two things together.

579

: 00:30:05

Why would I was in my thirties?

580

: 00:30:07

Why would I be thinking about menopause?

581

: 00:30:08

I just didn't think about it.

582

: 00:30:10

so a lot of the time I was in my own head,

I guess is the best way, going through.

583

: 00:30:16

Feeling, having depressive kind

of thoughts and all those, and

584

: 00:30:20

it took me to, suicidal ideation.

585

: 00:30:22

let's, let's be honest.

586

: 00:30:23

We're here to be honest, right?

587

: 00:30:24

So that's where it took, it took me

very, yeah, that's where it took me.

588

: 00:30:29

So when I'm in, when I'm feeling like

that, the last thing I want is to be

589

: 00:30:34

intimate with someone and the answer's no.

590

: 00:30:42

That was my answer.

591

: 00:30:44

it's, and interesting.

592

: 00:30:45

I was talking to my husband about

this last night and he's, and you said

593

: 00:30:49

earlier about rejection and he said

he felt, he would have been, he would

594

: 00:30:53

have been in his thirties as well.

595

: 00:30:55

So it was really tough for him.

596

: 00:30:56

He was still a young man, not an old man

now, he was a young man and it was, it

597

: 00:31:00

was really, it was really tough for him.

598

: 00:31:02

He said it was really tough because

he took it as a personal rejection.

599

: 00:31:06

So not only are women, not only was I

not feeling like I wanted to be intimate

600

: 00:31:12

because I was just I felt so closed down.

601

: 00:31:15

I then felt guilty because I wasn't,

I wasn't able to bring something to

602

: 00:31:24

that side of our relationship, so it

just added to it and we didn't talk

603

: 00:31:31

about it because we didn't have the

tools back then, it's only now we can

604

: 00:31:39

reflect on it and this is why it's

important we have these conversations

605

: 00:31:43

right because we just He went off and

did, he dealt with stuff in his own way.

606

: 00:31:49

And I just shut down.

607

: 00:31:50

So that that's my experience.

608

: 00:31:52

Now, I've heard of people who

actually, it goes the other way.

609

: 00:31:57

All of a sudden, their libido gets,

increases and they get more, women

610

: 00:32:02

get more confident in themselves.

611

: 00:32:04

All of a sudden they're getting

older, they've got more experience,

612

: 00:32:06

they're feeling, feeling

more at ease in their body.

613

: 00:32:08

Now that's not as common, but

again, I just want to try and

614

: 00:32:12

keep the balance there a little

bit around women's experiences.

615

: 00:32:16

And I think again, it's the same thing.

616

: 00:32:18

I think.

617

: 00:32:20

Oh, it's so awkward and tricky for a lot

of people to talk about this stuff, but

618

: 00:32:23

finding a way to, to discuss it, I think

is the way, is the way forward, that is

619

: 00:32:29

not an area of my speciality, at all.

620

: 00:32:32

but I think conversations and the one

thing I have found about having awkward

621

: 00:32:35

conversations, because it's a running

theme in my relationship, is to change the

622

: 00:32:40

situation, where we have a conversation.

623

: 00:32:42

So for me, rather than just sitting there.

624

: 00:32:45

Opposite each other, which is quite

intimidating, going for a walk has

625

: 00:32:48

really been helpful and talking about

it, and actually on the phone as well,

626

: 00:32:52

that's something I've just recently

discovered, that having a, talking on the

627

: 00:32:55

phone about stuff feels easier as well.

628

: 00:32:59

but I will say, I'm, I'm a few

years post menopause now, my libido

629

: 00:33:05

has come back, stronger than ever.

630

: 00:33:08

So if that gives a little bit of

hope for the fellas out there,

631

: 00:33:14

yeah, just hang on in there.

632

: 00:33:15

I think hang on in there, lots of cuddles,

lots of reassurance, lots of touching,

633

: 00:33:21

and, and that kind of stuff I would

say for, for that and try not to take

634

: 00:33:25

it personally as a personal rejection.

635

: 00:33:28

It's just.

636

: 00:33:31

It's just something else that perhaps

a woman can't think about in that time.

637

: 00:33:35

We've got priorities, , and it's just,

I think that's, that's my all I can

638

: 00:33:40

say from my experience and a couple of

things I've heard from clients as well.

639

: 00:33:44

Sal Jefferies: Thank you.

640

: 00:33:45

Yeah, that's really, really

interesting to hear and thank you

641

: 00:33:47

for being so candid and honest.

642

: 00:33:49

yeah, it's interesting that you

make such a strong statement about,

643

: 00:33:51

try not to take it personally.

644

: 00:33:53

The problem with that is that if

it's encoded emotionally, so if we've

645

: 00:33:57

had a very difficult upbringing or

changing upbringing with attachment

646

: 00:34:00

issues, so if you don't know about

psychotherapeutics, there's some

647

: 00:34:04

principles around how we experience

connections to our parents, particularly

648

: 00:34:07

mother, but can be father as well.

649

: 00:34:09

How that affects us when we're young, how

that whole experience was for a young man.

650

: 00:34:14

can create a certain attachment

style and there's like avoidant

651

: 00:34:17

attachment, there's all these kind

of different attachment styles.

652

: 00:34:19

Put it this way, we don't need to get

caught up in the psychotherapeutics

653

: 00:34:22

of it, but what we do know, if you

get triggered, you're having a high

654

: 00:34:25

emotional response, you feel rejected

or feel hurt or very confused.

655

: 00:34:31

Don't bury it, because it's happening.

656

: 00:34:33

It's a little like we were suggesting, if

a woman's feeling raged, don't bury it.

657

: 00:34:36

Express it, but find a good way.

658

: 00:34:38

So for men, if you're like, oh

god, I feel literally rejected.

659

: 00:34:41

I don't know who my wife is,

or my partner is, or it could

660

: 00:34:43

be your business colleague.

661

: 00:34:44

I don't know who my business

colleague is anymore.

662

: 00:34:45

Just, whoever's being, feels

like a kind of rejection.

663

: 00:34:49

Attend to the experience of rejection

because that's going on for you and

664

: 00:34:53

that, again, if we suppress that

as a man, that's just as unhealthy.

665

: 00:34:56

So if it looks like, go get

some therapy on it, go speak to

666

: 00:34:59

someone who deals with this stuff.

667

: 00:35:00

There's plenty of skilled people that

can navigate you through that tricky bit.

668

: 00:35:03

And by goodness me, as soon as we

know something, us men, we're like,

669

: 00:35:06

Oh, okay, that's how this works.

670

: 00:35:08

Our wonderful brains come online and

we can start to process the emotions.

671

: 00:35:12

And actually then we're not adding to the

menopause problem, a subtle difficulty

672

: 00:35:16

where we are dealing with our stuff.

673

: 00:35:18

And you're, the woman in your

life is dealing with her stuff.

674

: 00:35:20

And then there's a growth together.

675

: 00:35:22

I think there's quite a powerful

thing about change equals growth,

676

: 00:35:26

but you have to choose growth, right?

677

: 00:35:28

You have to choose it.

678

: 00:35:29

If you deny or bury it with your

man or woman, Oh no, this is fine.

679

: 00:35:32

No, it's not fine.

680

: 00:35:33

This is happening.

681

: 00:35:34

That's what we do about it.

682

: 00:35:36

Okay, cool.

683

: 00:35:37

With, with intimacy, I think again, it's

coming down to having those conversations.

684

: 00:35:42

I love what you said about

going for a walk cause it's

685

: 00:35:44

a little less intimidating.

686

: 00:35:46

I think one of the things I would add

to that a bit more skillful conversation

687

: 00:35:50

is to talk from the first person.

688

: 00:35:52

So if it's a case of I say, you're not

touching me anymore and you don't want

689

: 00:35:56

to, be intimate, that's a quite a blame

orientation where if it's, I want to

690

: 00:36:01

touch you, but you don't like that.

691

: 00:36:02

Or, I want to be with you

intimately, but you're, you're,

692

: 00:36:05

you're not giving me the signals.

693

: 00:36:06

We're talking from the

first person's experience.

694

: 00:36:09

It is undeniable and it's not about blame.

695

: 00:36:12

And if we change that

nuance, just, I'm feeling.

696

: 00:36:15

I feel rejected.

697

: 00:36:16

I feel like I want to, I feel I miss you.

698

: 00:36:17

Whatever it is.

699

: 00:36:18

If you say from I, my goodness me, it

just helps smooth out the conversation.

700

: 00:36:23

It gets rid of blame and argument and

it gets into what true communication is.

701

: 00:36:29

I have the right to speak and I have

the right to be heard, and you have

702

: 00:36:32

the right to speak and the right

to be heard, and we together will

703

: 00:36:35

do a lot better if we do this, than

just throwing stuff at each other.

704

: 00:36:39

Cool.

705

: 00:36:40

Tanith, perhaps I can get your thoughts on

some things we haven't touched on so far,

706

: 00:36:45

about the whole experience, the menopause

experience, the run up, the experience.

707

: 00:36:50

What else would you like to bring today

and really help us understand better?

708

: 00:36:54

Tanith Lee: I think, it feels like.

709

: 00:36:57

I think the more we can understand

menopause before women are going through

710

: 00:37:01

it, and it's a tricky one, I think women

are, we're becoming more aware of cycles,

711

: 00:37:05

and women are tracking cycles, and, and

what's going on with their body, which

712

: 00:37:08

is great, that seems, that, that, that's

really good, and the more we can start

713

: 00:37:12

to understand that, perhaps, younger,

in our, thirties and forties, then, then

714

: 00:37:20

it's going to, Pretty much guarantee that

it's going to be an easier transition when

715

: 00:37:24

we get to that because we're looking at

where we're more in more in touch with

716

: 00:37:28

our bodies, we're more in touch with

our cycles, we know what's going on.

717

: 00:37:32

I think because of contraception,

which of course is needed.

718

: 00:37:37

A lot of women are completely unaware

of their cycles, and we even cycle after

719

: 00:37:42

we finish our periods, so it's, it's.

720

: 00:37:44

really understanding our bodies

and what we have in our needs.

721

: 00:37:47

There's a big movement now, even

training exercise in, in, with the,

722

: 00:37:52

with your cycle in certain phases

of your menstrual cycle, because we

723

: 00:37:57

are, we don't do go through cycles.

724

: 00:37:59

And if we can start to identify how

we're feeling and what we need in

725

: 00:38:04

those cycles, then, and, and, and,

and, and implementing those things.

726

: 00:38:10

Then as we, get into menopause,

coming towards menopause, we're much

727

: 00:38:13

more, attuned to what's going on.

728

: 00:38:18

And also probably we've started to

look after ourselves a little bit.

729

: 00:38:21

So it means our body is going to be.

730

: 00:38:24

Nourished in all ways, so whether that's

through food, whether that's through

731

: 00:38:30

relationships, whether that's through

whatever, whatever area of a life, not

732

: 00:38:34

feeling nourished, I think is a really

lovely word to use in, in, in menopause.

733

: 00:38:39

So awareness of what's going on.

734

: 00:38:43

And also I'm a big, big advocate

when I work with clients

735

: 00:38:48

is making little changes.

736

: 00:38:51

Because I think if a woman has got

two perimenopause and it feels like

737

: 00:38:56

she feels hopeless and she's really

struggling, any big change is going

738

: 00:39:00

to be really tricky, really tricky.

739

: 00:39:03

So I think little, little, little

micro changes I think are really,

740

: 00:39:07

and we don't value those micro

changes, but those little changes...

741

: 00:39:11

done over time can really add

up and make a big, make a big

742

: 00:39:15

influence to how a woman's feeling.

743

: 00:39:18

I think we feel like unless we're

making some big, grand, massive,

744

: 00:39:21

transformational gestures and changing

this and radically changing that, that

745

: 00:39:25

it's not going to make a difference.

746

: 00:39:27

And actually it really does.

747

: 00:39:29

And it feels much more doable

for somebody who is knackered.

748

: 00:39:35

all up and down moods and

maybe, different food cravings,

749

: 00:39:39

just, just feels more doable.

750

: 00:39:40

So don't underestimate small changes and

also the power of, power of eating well.

751

: 00:39:46

And it doesn't have to be perfect,

but just adding in some more of the

752

: 00:39:50

good stuff can make a difference.

753

: 00:39:52

We, our body has such, different

needs at different times of our lives.

754

: 00:39:57

So it needs more, particularly the body,

because it's a stress, it can be felt the

755

: 00:40:02

body can perceive it with the stress, so

we can add more nourishment into our body.

756

: 00:40:07

It's going to help the body give it

the nutrients it needs and a cellular

757

: 00:40:11

level to be able to perform basically.

758

: 00:40:13

so I just, I, I, I'm a great

advocate of adding in, just add it.

759

: 00:40:17

So I don't, for working with clients.

760

: 00:40:21

I've got a client at the moment, actually

her first, yeah, all we're doing with

761

: 00:40:24

her at the moment is just, I said,

look, I don't, I'm not going to say

762

: 00:40:27

to you, you're going to have to eat a

different type of meal to your family.

763

: 00:40:30

You're going to cook a separate meal

because that's just crazy, right?

764

: 00:40:32

Because that's just adding so much

more stress to your, to your day.

765

: 00:40:36

Let's just kind of like pimp

up your meal a little bit.

766

: 00:40:38

Let's just add some more bits

and pieces in that feels doable.

767

: 00:40:43

and then, that, that's

just an easy way to do it.

768

: 00:40:45

So it's just those easy

wins, I think is, is, is.

769

: 00:40:50

is what can be really helpful and

we hear about exercise and movement.

770

: 00:40:56

We are designed to move and even

more I think, as we're getting

771

: 00:40:59

older, our bodies are changing and

it's not just menopause, is it?

772

: 00:41:03

We're getting older and it's

looking after our bodies.

773

: 00:41:06

So it's, we hear about

resistance training, mobility.

774

: 00:41:11

looking after our heart health, so

cardiovascular, all these things.

775

: 00:41:14

But again, we can keep it simple

because sometimes that can

776

: 00:41:18

all feel a bit overwhelming.

777

: 00:41:19

Like we think, I've got to be

in the gym every day and it

778

: 00:41:21

doesn't have to be like that.

779

: 00:41:22

Again, 10 minutes of doing

something is better than no minutes.

780

: 00:41:27

10 pushups, as you said earlier,

it's better than no pushups

781

: 00:41:31

without, even two pushups.

782

: 00:41:33

is better than no push ups because they

add up and you said and that's really

783

: 00:41:36

interesting what you said earlier

about that push response to the stress.

784

: 00:41:40

I didn't know that so I've really learned

something new today, but I think that that

785

: 00:41:44

just those don't underestimate the little

changes I think is probably the take home.

786

: 00:41:49

Sal Jefferies: Yeah, beautiful.

787

: 00:41:50

Yeah, you're absolutely right.

788

: 00:41:51

And, because you're so experienced in this

field and you've seen it in nutrition,

789

: 00:41:54

you see it with exercise, you see it

with the women you're working with.

790

: 00:41:56

you're, and it's something.

791

: 00:41:57

I've seen, I think what we're talking

to here is a bigger, like a meta

792

: 00:42:00

thinking process, a boom and bust,

it's the sort of 12 weeks to a beach

793

: 00:42:04

body, which is just ridiculous.

794

: 00:42:06

It doesn't happen, right?

795

: 00:42:07

Give it 10 years, you'll get it, right?

796

: 00:42:09

12 weeks, to get it.

797

: 00:42:10

It's not.

798

: 00:42:11

And I'm all about consistency.

799

: 00:42:13

If you look at any literature,

any research around fitness,

800

: 00:42:17

health, nutritional changes,

body composition changes.

801

: 00:42:21

Consistency is key, and as you beautifully

alluded to, small steps, but consistently

802

: 00:42:26

applying that, whether you're adding

some, some, some, whatever nutrition

803

: 00:42:29

you need to be, B vitamins, whatever

the thing is, and same with movement.

804

: 00:42:35

Forget the big grand gestures, do the

work every day, small steps and as

805

: 00:42:39

you rightly said, it goes to compound

interest, the idea of finance is

806

: 00:42:42

that you save like a couple of quid

every day and it's compact, but over

807

: 00:42:46

time like you get a lot of return.

808

: 00:42:48

A health pension is exactly the same.

809

: 00:42:51

Invest small and often and don't start,

you will get so much reward and I want

810

: 00:42:57

to, I want to speak to the movement part.

811

: 00:43:01

So much of work I, I do

around human performance.

812

: 00:43:05

Yes.

813

: 00:43:05

I look at psychology.

814

: 00:43:06

It's a huge part.

815

: 00:43:07

Emotions.

816

: 00:43:07

Absolutely.

817

: 00:43:08

Fundamentally run how we're

thinking, but our body is our mind.

818

: 00:43:13

We are embodied.

819

: 00:43:14

We, we don't live in a body.

820

: 00:43:16

We live through our body.

821

: 00:43:20

So if our body is in not good

shape, because you've been

822

: 00:43:23

busy being a mom, you've been

busy with work, all this stuff.

823

: 00:43:26

Okay.

824

: 00:43:27

But the minute you wake up and

realize it's not quite as it needs

825

: 00:43:29

to be, it doesn't feel the way I

want it to be, that's the minute you

826

: 00:43:33

want to start making some changes.

827

: 00:43:35

As you've said, Hannah, it's

small changes, but keep repeating.

828

: 00:43:38

And Daily Yoga.

829

: 00:43:39

I'm, I'm no spring chicken, I say it a

lot, I'm, I'm, I'm pushing hard, I've

830

: 00:43:42

gone a half a century already and yes,

I'm not a woman, I'm not in menopause,

831

: 00:43:45

but to, to other men, I now, I now live

like an athlete, I train all the time

832

: 00:43:50

and now sometimes I can't do as much,

I'm not a kid, but because over the

833

: 00:43:53

last probably eight years, I've really

been steadily building up, building

834

: 00:43:57

up, building up, my body's okay, we get

this, we can do what you want to do now.

835

: 00:44:02

If I tried to do what I do

now, like in, in, even in six

836

: 00:44:05

months, I'd just be injured.

837

: 00:44:07

I'd be in a terrible state.

838

: 00:44:08

So I think the, the sort of take

home is get connected to your body.

839

: 00:44:12

Definitely.

840

: 00:44:12

And there's many ways somatic therapeutic

work, yoga, Tai Chi, and, for women,

841

: 00:44:18

and I was at the gym this morning and

I really applaud all the women there,

842

: 00:44:21

a lot of weightlifting going on.

843

: 00:44:23

And one thing I'll say to any

people who don't understand

844

: 00:44:27

exercise, it's not how you look.

845

: 00:44:29

That's when you're younger.

846

: 00:44:30

It's how you feel.

847

: 00:44:32

It really is.

848

: 00:44:33

And yes, body composition change is

nice, but you can't beat feeling strong.

849

: 00:44:38

You can't beat feeling connected.

850

: 00:44:40

You can't beat feeling

assured in yourself.

851

: 00:44:43

And yeah, you might, your body might

look a bit nicer or not as nice

852

: 00:44:45

as way, but the feeling supersedes

the image by such a large amount.

853

: 00:44:51

So if you're really struggling with how

you're feeling about yourself, I feel

854

: 00:44:54

one of the go tos is go to exercise.

855

: 00:44:56

And any exercise we'll do at the

beginning, just anything will

856

: 00:44:59

give you the moving forwards.

857

: 00:45:01

Because if you get a relationship

with your body that's strong, you

858

: 00:45:05

are in relationship with yourself.

859

: 00:45:06

And that is obviously one of

the hardest things that I see,

860

: 00:45:09

is that the relationship with

ourself is falling apart inside.

861

: 00:45:13

So if the relationship between

mind and body happens, we go there.

862

: 00:45:17

What's

863

: 00:45:17

your thoughts on that

864

: 00:45:18

Tanith Lee: Yeah.

865

: 00:45:18

Absolutely.

866

: 00:45:19

Absolutely.

867

: 00:45:20

I've been, I've taught various types

fitness since, I think it was: 2005

868

: 00:45:24

So it's been, it's been a

while and that's changed.

869

: 00:45:26

And what I've noticed with my, I used

to be into the body transformation

870

: 00:45:30

and I've done that, I've done

that, I've done all of that stuff.

871

: 00:45:33

but I think anybody that's starting

with exercise or somebody that's perhaps

872

: 00:45:37

coming back into exercise, which is my

experience, because I've been getting

873

: 00:45:41

so many different injuries and it's put

me off doing the stuff I used to love,

874

: 00:45:44

which would be lifting heavy stuff.

875

: 00:45:47

For me to re regain that spark.

876

: 00:45:49

I just thought, what do I love doing?

877

: 00:45:51

And actually it's constant about a

bit with music, exercise to music.

878

: 00:45:54

Do you know that's, that,

that's what kind of gets me.

879

: 00:45:56

'cause it's the music, it's, that's

what kind of, and and, and it just

880

: 00:46:00

reminded me of just what you've said

about that connection and that joy,

881

: 00:46:05

and then, and a little bit of, it

feels a bit fun and I get that lift.

882

: 00:46:09

And from there then that's,

it feels like that kind of.

883

: 00:46:13

Fires up my brain then

to explore other stuff.

884

: 00:46:15

and weightlifting is fantastic.

885

: 00:46:17

and my own personal experiences.

886

: 00:46:19

It's so frustrating that I can't

at the moment do it as well

887

: 00:46:23

as I do it as much as I could.

888

: 00:46:26

because if I get so

many injuries and that.

889

: 00:46:29

As a woman goes through menopause,

the estrogen levels, when they drop,

890

: 00:46:33

it changes our muscle and it changes

our tendons and our ligaments.

891

: 00:46:38

And we get more prone to, to injuries.

892

: 00:46:41

So I would always, Make sure we're

following a program that takes into

893

: 00:46:45

account a change in women's body

if you're, if you're, if you're,

894

: 00:46:49

especially if you're new to it.

895

: 00:46:51

but yeah, there's, there's so much

evidence, isn't there, about exercise,

896

: 00:46:56

resistance training and, and.

897

: 00:46:59

And what you said about feeling strong.

898

: 00:47:03

I still want to be able to go

in the garden and lug out, lug

899

: 00:47:05

the massive bags of compost.

900

: 00:47:07

I still want to feel that strong.

901

: 00:47:09

I've, I've, that's powerful for me.

902

: 00:47:12

So that's my kind of motivation

to do that, to feel strong.

903

: 00:47:15

Not so much, how it looks.

904

: 00:47:16

Yeah, if it happens, it's nice,

but it's just, it's the feeling.

905

: 00:47:20

of it.

906

: 00:47:21

And I think that, that

changes my motivation as well.

907

: 00:47:25

Then it changes how I train a little

bit more rather than just the aesthetic.

908

: 00:47:28

I've had a six pack.

909

: 00:47:29

I've been really lean.

910

: 00:47:31

I've done all that.

911

: 00:47:33

It still wasn't enough.

912

: 00:47:35

I still looked in the mirror and I still

thought, so it's more than that for me.

913

: 00:47:42

And I'm not saying there's nothing wrong

with body transformation, all that.

914

: 00:47:45

But I think, it's just finding for women,

finding a way that works, works for them.

915

: 00:47:49

So if you need to go and do Zumba or

anything like, dancey, go and do it.

916

: 00:47:54

If it gets you moving and it makes

you smile and it gets you a bit hot

917

: 00:47:57

and sweaty, great, because it just,

it's invigorating and I think on a

918

: 00:48:04

cellular level when you get into that.

919

: 00:48:06

Sal Jefferies: Absolutely.

920

: 00:48:07

Yeah, I love that.

921

: 00:48:08

And a word you said there which is so

important, certainly if you're having

922

: 00:48:12

darkness and difficulty, is joy.

923

: 00:48:15

joy is such a vibrant human

experience and it's not happiness.

924

: 00:48:19

When it's about buying things

that's, that's, joy is this depth.

925

: 00:48:23

You can't

926

: 00:48:23

change it.

927

: 00:48:24

Joy is this sort of inner

radiance, inner loveliness.

928

: 00:48:27

That is just so wonderful.

929

: 00:48:29

And if you're really struggling.

930

: 00:48:31

If you can find moments of joy, then

they're kind of like, I imagine like

931

: 00:48:34

a, lily pads, which is like a beautiful

frog would hop and that joy lily pad.

932

: 00:48:38

You can jump onto it.

933

: 00:48:39

Yeah, it's a bit of rubbishy

water in between, but let's

934

: 00:48:41

hop onto the next joy lily pad.

935

: 00:48:43

And.

936

: 00:48:43

and that's what I've seen from my

personal, in my personal life, and some

937

: 00:48:47

of the clients I've been working with, is

finding those points, so they're almost

938

: 00:48:51

way points, so if you're in a difficult

place, know that there's a good bit

939

: 00:48:55

coming, you might be going to the gym, you

might be going to Zumba, you, whatever it

940

: 00:48:59

is, You might be speaking to your other

half and saying, you know what, tonight I

941

: 00:49:03

need you to go, or I need a foot massage

or we need to the pub, whatever it is.

942

: 00:49:08

And, and that permission, that,

that communication, that openness,

943

: 00:49:11

it seems to me to be some of the

most important constituents to

944

: 00:49:15

navigate, menopause and that whole

experience in a more healthy way.

945

: 00:49:19

So we're not saying it's

going to magically be better.

946

: 00:49:21

That's just silly.

947

: 00:49:22

it's going to be difficulty, but if

difficulty is balanced by some joy

948

: 00:49:26

and some connections and growth, then.

949

: 00:49:29

there's a lot of spiritual masters

that talk about suffering is

950

: 00:49:32

beautiful if you understand it well.

951

: 00:49:34

So we're not talking

about living in misery.

952

: 00:49:36

No, of course not.

953

: 00:49:36

But getting through adversity.

954

: 00:49:39

but with understanding and learning

that creates post traumatic growth.

955

: 00:49:44

Disoppression and not understanding

stuff, confusion can create more

956

: 00:49:49

like a post traumatic response.

957

: 00:49:51

So if we aim for growth, it's

like, how do I make sense of this?

958

: 00:49:54

How do I have people on board?

959

: 00:49:54

And everything we've covered

today, hopefully will be some

960

: 00:49:57

of those constituent pieces.

961

: 00:49:59

Tanith Lee: No, I love that.

962

: 00:49:59

And I love what you said about, I can't

remember the exact phrase, but for what

963

: 00:50:01

you said, but I've got the analogy of

the lily pads and I love, and I love

964

: 00:50:04

that, that I can, I'm quite a visual

person, so I can really see that.

965

: 00:50:08

and my, my daughter, she, she's 20

now, but she probably said this about

966

: 00:50:15

a year ago to me, when I was going

through a little bit of, Feeling a

967

: 00:50:18

bit, feeling a bit low and stuff.

968

: 00:50:20

And she said, Mum, she goes, I

have to have something to look

969

: 00:50:23

forward to every week that I'm

going to do or, with someone.

970

: 00:50:26

She goes, otherwise, what's the point?

971

: 00:50:29

And those words have really

stuck with me because I just

972

: 00:50:31

thought, that's it, isn't it?

973

: 00:50:33

It's just finding those little things.

974

: 00:50:35

that we can look forward to, even

if we're feeling really rubbish,

975

: 00:50:39

even if it's small, doesn't have

to cost money, none of that.

976

: 00:50:42

You're just having those little

things to look forward to, just

977

: 00:50:45

so we can take our eyes from the

ground and lift them up to the sky.

978

: 00:50:49

Just have a little bit

of, a little bit of hope.

979

: 00:50:51

And I think, yeah, what you said

about, hopping from the lily pads.

980

: 00:50:54

I'm going to take that with me today.

981

: 00:50:55

Thank you for sharing that.

982

: 00:50:57

Sal Jefferies: You're very welcome.

983

: 00:50:58

You're very welcome.

984

: 00:50:59

I'm going to sum up something from

a man's side, and I'd love for

985

: 00:51:02

you to sum up from a woman's side.

986

: 00:51:03

so as a man experiencing, say, my

partner going through menopause, it's

987

: 00:51:06

been really hard, and I've learnt a lot

about us, and I've learnt a lot about

988

: 00:51:10

tolerance, I've learnt a lot about what

I need to work on in me, and, and I've

989

: 00:51:14

also learnt that nothing lasts forever.

990

: 00:51:16

So if you're having a difficult month or

whatever it is, it's yeah, this is tough.

991

: 00:51:21

But here's the thing, nothing lasts

forever, it doesn't biochemically, it

992

: 00:51:24

doesn't psychologically, everything

goes through cycles, so know that

993

: 00:51:28

if you're in a tricky spot, you're

gonna, you're gonna come through it.

994

: 00:51:31

But what can you learn about yourself?

995

: 00:51:34

Speak up, listen up, and

create that communication.

996

: 00:51:38

Those are the things that have worked and

made things better in my personal life.

997

: 00:51:42

I've had a lot of the female clients I've

worked with echo similar things, so that's

998

: 00:51:45

what I've seen from a male perspective.

999

: 00:51:47

Tanith, what would you like to close on

for, for your thoughts and your wisdom?

: 1000

00:51:56,911 --> 00:52:00,571

Tanith Lee: I think the menopause

is just a part of aging.

: 1001

00:52:00,581 --> 00:52:05,751

We haven't talked about what happens

to men when they go through a hormone.

: 1002

00:52:05,751 --> 00:52:09,461

It's not as, as, as, as obvious,

but change, it's just change and

: 1003

00:52:09,461 --> 00:52:10,841

it's just getting older, isn't it?

: 1004

00:52:10,851 --> 00:52:12,651

And it's just noticing that.

: 1005

00:52:13,721 --> 00:52:16,871

and you, you just use the

word wisdom and I love that.

: 1006

00:52:17,031 --> 00:52:23,101

And I really do think there is so

much wisdom For women, we've got so

: 1007

00:52:23,451 --> 00:52:27,761

much to give, and we do ourselves a

disservice as we go through menopause.

: 1008

00:52:28,581 --> 00:52:32,091

And if you think how long

we're living now, potentially

: 1009

00:52:32,241 --> 00:52:34,911

half our life post menopause.

: 1010

00:52:35,061 --> 00:52:35,761

Potentially.

: 1011

00:52:36,431 --> 00:52:37,191

That's huge.

: 1012

00:52:37,841 --> 00:52:39,481

And a lot of women are

writing themselves off.

: 1013

00:52:40,116 --> 00:52:43,736

They like saying they're not, don't

feel sexy, they don't feel seen, they

: 1014

00:52:43,736 --> 00:52:48,876

don't feel, worthwhile, all that stuff,

which is just, unfortunately, like

: 1015

00:52:48,876 --> 00:52:53,586

a script we've been fed because it

isn't like that in the whole world.

: 1016

00:52:53,736 --> 00:52:59,176

There are parts of the world that the

elder woman, is revered and, she's

: 1017

00:52:59,176 --> 00:53:04,686

full of wisdom and strength and she's,

she's someone to be admired and looked

: 1018

00:53:04,686 --> 00:53:07,126

upon with, for, yeah, for the wisdom.

: 1019

00:53:07,126 --> 00:53:09,316

So I think it's taking

that with, with that.

: 1020

00:53:09,336 --> 00:53:15,516

It's understanding our own menopause

script and how we can start to change

: 1021

00:53:15,516 --> 00:53:21,376

that for ourselves and for those around

us and perhaps for the generations to

: 1022

00:53:21,376 --> 00:53:26,921

come, because We can rewrite it because

we could have so much to give and I

: 1023

00:53:26,931 --> 00:53:29,691

think we have to go through this change.

: 1024

00:53:30,281 --> 00:53:33,601

Mother Nature just needs, it's

given us a little bit of a whoop,

: 1025

00:53:34,671 --> 00:53:36,551

a little bit of a take notice.

: 1026

00:53:36,691 --> 00:53:41,131

you've got opportunities here to grow,

to learn and to, to, to without sounding

: 1027

00:53:41,131 --> 00:53:43,321

too cheesy and cliche, step into, this.

: 1028

00:53:44,481 --> 00:53:48,261

Older, wiser version of

yourself, and it's all possible.

: 1029

00:53:48,321 --> 00:53:50,121

So I think that's really

what I'd like to share.

: 1030

00:53:50,661 --> 00:53:51,231

Sal Jefferies: Beautiful.

: 1031

00:53:51,421 --> 00:53:51,911

Beautiful.

: 1032

00:53:51,991 --> 00:53:52,501

Love that.

: 1033

00:53:52,761 --> 00:53:56,781

and if we're only halfway done,

we need to invest in everything,

: 1034

00:53:56,911 --> 00:53:58,421

ourselves, everything, isn't it?

: 1035

00:53:58,691 --> 00:54:01,851

If you're only halfway there,

do not write yourself off.

: 1036

00:54:02,091 --> 00:54:04,931

I, I, I'm a big advocate

of this in midlife.

: 1037

00:54:04,971 --> 00:54:07,551

I'm like, okay, midlife, people

talk about midlife crisis.

: 1038

00:54:08,031 --> 00:54:10,411

people don't understand the

word crisis comes from the Greek

: 1039

00:54:10,561 --> 00:54:12,471

krisis, which means choice.

: 1040

00:54:12,846 --> 00:54:13,356

Decision.

: 1041

00:54:14,426 --> 00:54:17,576

So you have a decision at midlife,

whether you're male or female.

: 1042

00:54:18,526 --> 00:54:19,786

What are you going to choose?

: 1043

00:54:19,826 --> 00:54:21,636

Because choice is power, right?

: 1044

00:54:21,646 --> 00:54:23,026

It's the ultimate gift of consciousness.

: 1045

00:54:23,026 --> 00:54:25,056

If what we choose, how do

I, how do I work with this?

: 1046

00:54:25,056 --> 00:54:25,686

What do I do?

: 1047

00:54:26,006 --> 00:54:29,056

Choice is power and what you

said there is just mind blowing.

: 1048

00:54:29,476 --> 00:54:29,706

Yeah.

: 1049

00:54:29,706 --> 00:54:29,946

Okay.

: 1050

00:54:29,946 --> 00:54:30,156

God.

: 1051

00:54:30,156 --> 00:54:30,396

Yeah.

: 1052

00:54:30,396 --> 00:54:31,136

We're only halfway done.

: 1053

00:54:31,136 --> 00:54:31,846

Thanks for reminding me.

: 1054

00:54:31,846 --> 00:54:32,506

Of course we are.

: 1055

00:54:32,816 --> 00:54:36,226

And if you're halfway done, there's

a lot of good stuff to come.

: 1056

00:54:36,226 --> 00:54:36,556

So

: 1057

00:54:37,786 --> 00:54:38,126

yeah.

: 1058

00:54:38,176 --> 00:54:38,726

Amazing.

: 1059

00:54:39,606 --> 00:54:39,956

Wow.

: 1060

00:54:40,046 --> 00:54:42,506

thank you so much for sharing

some of your thoughts.

: 1061

00:54:42,526 --> 00:54:44,876

Of course you are super

knowledgeable on this.

: 1062

00:54:44,936 --> 00:54:48,086

we will put Tanya's details in the show

notes for anyone who wants to reach out

: 1063

00:54:48,086 --> 00:54:51,536

and learn more because she obviously has

vast amounts of knowledge, more than I do.

: 1064

00:54:51,606 --> 00:54:53,106

And, and obviously an absolute specialist.

: 1065

00:54:53,476 --> 00:54:54,586

it is lovely to see you.

: 1066

00:54:54,686 --> 00:54:55,286

Thank you.

: 1067

00:54:55,396 --> 00:55:00,266

And, My dear listener, I hope you

have collected wisdom, insights, and

: 1068

00:55:00,266 --> 00:55:04,236

perhaps a few nuggets you can implement

into your life with a man, with

: 1069

00:55:04,236 --> 00:55:07,326

your man or woman, whether it's your

partner or your colleague or friend,

: 1070

00:55:08,436 --> 00:55:11,646

take action, make your own choices,

and I'll see you on the next one.

: 1071

00:55:15,030 --> 00:55:16,680

Thank you so much for listening.

: 1072

00:55:16,950 --> 00:55:20,520

If you enjoyed the episode,

please subscribe and if a friend

: 1073

00:55:20,520 --> 00:55:23,610

would benefit from hearing this,

do send it on to them as well.

: 1074

00:55:24,810 --> 00:55:27,810

If you would like to get in touch

yourself, then you can go to my website,

: 1075

00:55:28,050 --> 00:55:36,720

which is sal jeffries.com, spelled S

A L J E F E R I E s sal jeffries.com.

: 1076

00:55:37,020 --> 00:55:40,380

Hit the get in touch link and there

you can send me a direct message.

: 1077

00:55:41,325 --> 00:55:44,205

If you'd like to go one step further

and learn whether coaching could help

: 1078

00:55:44,205 --> 00:55:48,885

you overcome a challenge or a block

in your life, then do reach out and

: 1079

00:55:48,885 --> 00:55:52,275

I offer a call where we can discuss

how this may be able to help you.

: 1080

00:55:53,145 --> 00:55:55,065

Until the next time, take care.