Episode 14

full
Published on:

18th Oct 2023

Men, The Mrs & and the Menopause

Tanith Lee aka 'Mrs Menopause' joins me as a specialist to talk about the menopause with a particular focus from a man's perspective.

I share my personal experience with this as my partner is going through the peri-menopause and it has been a challenging experience for both of us. I also have numerous clients going through the menopause so I have exposure to the impact on women and their life/work.

As a partner of someone, you might start to notice changes your their partner and fee the effects on you and your relationship. Can we change the description of a 'symptom' to a 'signal' of what's going on - when you see these you can start to get interested in these.

Tanith says that peri-menopause > menopause shouldn't be feared. If we can go into this with knowledge and compassion (rather then fear) then this is a good place to start. Stress will make the experience worse so that needs addressing.

I talk about the nervous system which needs to be understood. The stress response is either 'fight' mode or flight' mode. If you feel anger can it be expressed healthily without trying to avoid it or shutting it down? we discuss this in depth. Tanith explains the common narrative is to calm everything down BUT menopausal 'rage' but we discuss this and how you can take actions to process this rather than suppressing what you're feeling.

How can we communicate better? How do men deal with the difficult feelings that might come up such as rejection?

We discuss all of this and provide various options you can do.

And yes, we also discuss intimacy!

Finally, we cover the powerful impact of exercise. The relationship with your body needs to be nurtured. Tanith explains the issues to be aware of due to hormonal changes. How you feel is the ultimate payoff and if you can find 'joy' this is such a lift. I call these moments 'Joy Lilly-Pads' to hop from between the difficult times.

Get in touch with Sal

If this episode has caught your attention and you wish to learn more, then please contact me. I offer a free 20 min call where we can discuss a challenge your facing and how I may be able to help you.

Transcript
Sal Jefferies:

Welcome to Mindset, Mood and Movement, a systemic approach to human

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behavior, performance, and well being.

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Our psychological, emotional, and

physical health are all connected,

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and my guests and I endeavor to share

knowledge, strategies, and tools for

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you to enrich your life and work.

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Hello and welcome.

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Today, I am talking about

a fascinating subject, men,

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the misses and the menopause.

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Now stay with me here.

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It's a really important

subject for men in particular.

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my female listeners, of course, it's

super important for you, but I wanted

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to come today from this, from both the

male and female perspective and bring

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in a specialist who really knows all

about menopause and can really help both

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myself and all of us understand more.

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And there's.

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A lot of reason why as men, we need

to know about the menopause because

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if you don't have a partner, you might

have a sibling, a friend, a colleague,

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a coworker, someone with you is

likely to be experiencing menopause

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at somewhere in their midlife area.

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And it's absolutely vital that we

understand what's happening for both.

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Us as men for women and

us as people together.

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So the whole thing together.

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so I'm delighted to be joined by Tanith

Lee and she goes by the name Mrs.

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Menopause.

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So she is a super specialist.

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I've known Tanith a while and she

knows so much about this subject.

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So I'm super grateful

that she's joining us.

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Hello Tanith.

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Tanith Lee: Hello Sal.

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It's so good to be here.

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Thank you for this opportunity

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Sal Jefferies: very welcome.

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They're very welcome.

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I'm delighted to, to get

your wisdom and knowledge.

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and in some ways it feels slightly

unusual for a man to be quite,

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forthright and outspoken about

the menopause, but for, for, for

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all of us, I wanted to share them.

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And by the way, I have full,

so full, full disclosure.

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I have full permission to

talk about, my personal world.

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my partners have been

happy to say this is okay.

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So in my own life, my partner's

going through perimenopause and

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my Goodness, have we seen this has

been a challenge, she's had huge

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challenge years and I'll bring some

of the examples to today's episode.

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and as a man, I've had challenges because

I'm part of that relationship too.

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it's not just happening to

her, it's happening to us.

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So it's absolutely vital that we all

understand this better so that we can make

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the best actions, choices, and processes.

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So Tanith, Can I, can I ask you a

little bit more about where you are

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at with, with your work at the moment?

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Cause you, I understand you work

with women and menopause, but give

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us a little bit more about how you're

working with, with people you do

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and how you approach dealing with

this big subject of the menopause.

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Tanith Lee: Sure, thanks.

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do you want me to share a little bit

of what kind of got me the name Mrs.

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Sal Jefferies: I'd love to.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Let's take us back a little bit.

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So we understand your origin.

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Tanith Lee: the, I was, diagnosed, that's

a terrible word for it, but I can't think

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of another one to use with menopause

in my kind of mid to late thirties.

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and I'm now 51.

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So a little while ago.

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And, being the person I am,

I'm quite honest and open

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and like to share this stuff.

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And I was doing that on social media

and, people wanted to know more about

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it, particularly my peers at the time.

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I'm in, I teach a little bit of fitness.

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And so my peers were really interested

because back then really nobody

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was talking about menopause at all.

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And, the name came about

my mentor at the time.

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Someone's talked to him about asking

about something about menopause and he

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said, Oh, you need to talk to Tanith.

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She's Mrs.

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Menopause.

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And that is literally how,

how the name came about.

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And I went, Oh, that says what it is.

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So let's, let's just go with that.

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And literally, that's how it all started.

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I started talking about

it from, from then.

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so I was just sharing blogging.

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really about my own experience, my

struggle to get help, my struggle, to

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understand what was going on for me.

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And, and the more I talked about, as I

say, lots of people want to understand it.

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And then I thought, I can help,

I can help other women with this.

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I can, I can do that.

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So it started with exercise and

then I knew I wanted to work

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on a bit of a deeper level.

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So then I decided to be trained

as a nutritional therapist.

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which is so much more than just nutrition.

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It's, lifestyle coaching

and stuff as well.

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and then I, then I started to

learn how I could really help

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women on a, on a much deeper level.

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So I work one to one.

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I like doing group work as well.

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I like doing both of those things and

that's, that's really how I help women

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with their, with their menopause stuff.

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Sal Jefferies: Got it.

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Cool.

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That's really good to know.

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And, and of course we've, we've,

I've known Tanith for, over the

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years, in various, respects and.

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And of course, it's very easy for the

unknowing, whether you're male or female,

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it doesn't matter, there's a lot of

myths around, a lot of not knowing, and

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of course I've been pulled into this,

not just for my personal life, but my

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sister as well, my older sister, a lot

of my female clients, so I'm very much

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around perimenopause understanding

conversation from a man's outside

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perspective, so I'm not going to say I

understand what it what it feels like.

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But I understand what it's like

to be with that in many contexts.

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And of course, there's

an idea, isn't there?

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That, this happens to ladies in

their late fifties of a certain age.

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You know, all these horrible cliches,

and that you get some hot sweats.

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And it's okay, that's just,

we need to stop this rubbish.

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and I found, I know someone.

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She also went through an early menopause.

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I think in her late late twenties.

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So we need to be understanding

that this can happen.

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there's certain...

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Bandwidths aren't there roughly around

40 to 60 is the bandwidth but it can

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happen at different ages And so we want to

bust some myths today and one thing that

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strikes me It's important as a man whether

it's your partner or your your friend or

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your colleague You might notice something

going on because I noticed something

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going like you seem a bit different at

the moment and Seem a little bit edgy

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or whatever it is And I think it's

interesting as a man if we see something

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Have the understanding that there may be

menopausal process starting to happen,

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say perimenopause, as it's called.

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And Tanith, you've said to me, and I'd

like to get your deeper thoughts on

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it, but perhaps from a woman's point of

view, you may not actually understand

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what's happening as the start of the

menopausal, the perimenopause, but as

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a man, you might observe these changes.

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So what, what on earth are we

going to be looking for from

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both an outside perspective

and from a woman's perspective?

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Tanith Lee: Such a good question.

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if anyone Googles the symptoms

of menopause, you'll get so

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many that there's, there's

many, many different symptoms.

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So it can be quite hard to spot.

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It doesn't help that the menopause,

perimenopause, so the perimenopause

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is the years leading up to

when women's final period is.

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So it's those, there's those years leading

up to that final, final menstruation.

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And that tends to be where many women,

not all, will experience various, varying

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degrees of these different symptoms.

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some women don't, about they've

potentially about 20, 25% of women don't

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actually get any symptoms, but we don't,

we don't hear so much about that, do we?

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So I just thought I'd

put in that it's not a.

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it's not necessarily guaranteed

that a woman's going to

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experience all these symptoms.

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Not at all.

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That's not how it works.

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So The symptoms generally in the

perimenopause when you're the closer a

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woman gets to her final period The more

the changes will start to happen so before

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that it may be just as you said subtle

changes like mood So that would probably

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be the most obvious one, and it's the kind

of feelings you get, a woman may get when

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she's, before her, before her period, that

PMT type feeling, a bit irritable, just

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maybe a bit sad, a bit, feeling a bit low,

those kind of symptoms we're used to women

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going through in cycles because of the,

because of the changing hormones, so that

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may become more apparent more of the time.

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and there's no, generally it's very

erratic, which for a lot of women is

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unsettling because, it can feel like

one day they're feeling okay, the

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next day they're all over the place.

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And it's, it is very unsettling.

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And so that would be the main kind

of symptoms I say with mood changes.

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As a woman gets close to a final

period, other symptoms, I know this

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is not, hard and fast kind of rules,

every woman's experience is different.

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This is what makes it so tricky

to understand, but what can happen

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then is the more common symptoms

of the perimenopal hormone changes

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are the change in temperature.

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So women feeling hot, they may get, hot

flushes or they may sweat, night sweats

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because the, the body is changing these

different hormones are fluctuating.

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So the body's trying to work out

what's going on and also, periods

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actually might start to change.

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A woman's cycle length may change.

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She may start to miss a period.

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Her flow may change as well.

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So these are all fairly kind of common

signs that something is changing.

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And these changes can happen, Hormones

are changing, from a woman really in her

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thirties, because if you think about how

fertility works, fertility rates start

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to, start to change in a woman's thirties.

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So hormonal changes are already happening.

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And then as we get into our forties,

that then starts to change as well.

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So it's, it's, yeah, it's quite,

it's quite hard to spot because

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it's quite subtle sometimes.

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Not for women to say, sorry.

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It's when we just say, just,

they just don't feel quite.

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Just don't feel quite themselves is a

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Sal Jefferies: Yeah, and, and of course

it must be so destabilizing and, and I,

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as I want to talk about this from the

female perspective that I've understood

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and had privilege to talk with other

women about, and obviously from a

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male perspective as a witness to that.

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I worked with someone once and she, she

told me that she was absolutely fine.

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Regular periods, no idea, early forties.

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The idea of menopause wasn't even on her

radar and she just suddenly developed

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allergies, like really big allergies to I

think like tree pollen or something like

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that and came out with these huge hives

of allergy things and it was someone I was

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working with and they just didn't get it.

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How am I having these allergic reactions?

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And it was actually part of this

perimenopause mix that was going on.

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Now, to the outside, of course,

you went to the doctor and the

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doctor's you probably got anxiety.

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Let's prescribe some medication.

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It's whoa, let's just

slow this down a bit.

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And by the way, I have a whole beef around

this, but yeah, giving some meds for

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anxiety rather than understand why the

body's going to a stress response is a.

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is a really naive idea.

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and yeah, why the histamine

levels are pumping up, why the

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sensitivities are pumping up.

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So I saw that from someone I work with.

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And of course they shared it with me.

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I was like, my goodness, isn't, isn't

that fascinating how you wouldn't

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really attribute, allergy to this.

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And yet it was exactly that because then

she went through this whole process.

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and then suddenly it

was like, Oh, Oh, I see.

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This is what's going on.

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And what I found from that

story was fascinating that she,

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she went to a job, a doctor.

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And they, unfortunately, they

didn't sound like they have any

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comprehension of this was on the radar.

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They were looking at the symptoms of

allergy and anxiety and going, let's

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medicate it, rather than a better

question like, what's going on for you?

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do you have children?

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She didn't.

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So early menopause was more biased towards

her because of not having children.

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And, and I think this is one of

the things I want to get out.

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It seems really important to me is that

when stuff's happening, rather than

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it's a symptom, they need to solve it.

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I think the symptom needs to be a signal.

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Okay.

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What's going on with me?

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Yeah.

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Is, is, is, is there something going on?

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And if you're, if you're a man and

you're working with a woman or it's

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your partner and you're starting to see

symptoms that are, could be anxiety.

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It could be, could be shut down,

which other people call depression.

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It could be these things

that are happening without

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seemingly obvious causation.

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I think that's some of the signals

I would say, Oh, get interested.

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Is this, is this actually starting

to blend into a perimenable

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state for my partner or for

my colleague or what have you?

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And I'm really interested, Tanith, what

are some of the, so we've spoken about

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some of the symptoms to look out for.

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What are some of the big things

that you've seen through your own

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experience and with women that,

as a woman, they need to know?

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And then we'll go to the men after this,

but as a woman, what do you need to know

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about this forthcoming perimenopause

experience and the menopause if you're,

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I don't know, let's say thirties, and

you just don't know anything about it?

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What do we need to be

prepped and ready for?

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Tanith Lee: Great question.

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And I just want to just touch on what you

just said about those signals, because

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I try not to use the word symptoms

too much in my language, because I

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just think it and the word diagnosis,

because it just makes it sound like

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it's some kind of medical condition.

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I use the word messages,

but I like signals as well.

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And I think that's.

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It's just language, but I

think it just reframes it.

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So I'm really glad you brought that up.

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I think the first thing to think about,

with menopause for, for women who are

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younger is for it not to be feared.

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So we've, we're in our age now that,

if there's information everywhere.

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And we're surrounded by all this

information and it's great, it's

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good menopause is talked about and

that's what we need to, it's good.

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We need the awareness and when we need

to feel open and I meant to talk about it

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as a part of a normal aging, transition.

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But, I think the, it's quite imbalanced.

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It's quite a negative, negative

messages around menopause.

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So I think If we can start to see

it as not necessarily all a negative

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transition, because it's if we're going,

if we're going into something with

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fear and worry, and it's, it's probably

going to make the situation worse.

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But if we can go forwards thinking,

okay, if I can look after myself in

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this way, X, Y, Z, which we can talk

about, then it's going to make my

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chances of the transition easier.

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And if I start to think about.

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The benefits of menopause, because

there are some, and of getting older,

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I think that, I think, is, is, is

really important for women, and,

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yeah, I think there's an element of

that, and I, you, you touched earlier

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about stress, and the stress response.

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And, that, that stress will make

a woman's, menopause much worse.

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and we hear that all the time.

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You need to, less stress, de stress.

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And it's trying to help women

actually see how that really

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does affect a woman's, hormones.

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So that will therefore affect her

experience of, of the menopause as well.

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so I think those, those are two things.

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And I think If we can learn to look after

ourselves and give ourselves the care and

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attention we deserve as human beings, that

will make the transition easier as well.

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Sal Jefferies: Yeah.

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nice.

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Really nice.

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and I wanted to, to speak about a couple

of things that caught my, really caught

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my attention with what you said there.

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we have this, there's a quite a

common narrative, certainly in

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our culture around, take care of

yourself, manage your stress levels.

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And I think it's, it's like

a really ambiguous concept.

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So our nervous system,

stress is not good or bad.

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It's a response.

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It's a response system to, to stress.

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Potential threats, whether they're

external, like things around you,

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or internal, such as thoughts.

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And, one of the things I find about

stress, having, using this, the mind,

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mood, movement process that I, I work

with, is everything affects each other.

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Having worked with yoga, and seeing

people down regulate, and find

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things nice, that's brilliant,

that's really, really good.

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The problem I have with that,

is it doesn't give permission

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to go into a fight state.

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Now, just caveat that, I'm not saying

punching people, I'm saying the,

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the fight state of the fight flight.

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And really what we're talking about

here is you, if you have a lift in your.

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hormonal chemistry of cortisol and

adrenaline, that kind of stuff.

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You will, you'll be biased to take action.

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And I think it's absolutely vital for

permission to be there to take action.

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And that might look like I'm

going for a run, which is a way

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of expressing the flight response.

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It might look like I'm going to go boxing,

which is something I'm interested in.

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about allowing permission to express.

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It might be that I'm going to speak up.

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All of these things are

moving towards something.

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And I think if we create that space around

get rid of, get rid of shame, get rid of

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silence, because they go together, add

in permission, add in conversation, and

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communication, doesn't matter how rough

it is, let's get something going, we

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start to loosen up all this stuff, this

hidden narrative, men shouldn't talk about

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it, absolute nonsense, men absolutely

shouldn't be talking about this.

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And women.

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it's a transition, right?

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It's going to happen.

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It's got nothing to do with anything.

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It's a transition.

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So as you beautifully said, if you honor

that, work with that, that's going to

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change everything versus resistance,

not speaking about it, burying it

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really, really important stuff.

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And that's what I see from a

psychological, emotional perspective

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about people creating those changes.

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So we spoke about what to look out for.

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So for us, us boys, us men, eyes on.

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You're starting to see stuff like,

okay, I know what I need to look out

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for because I've been in the mix, but

what are you, what would you suggest

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Tanith for men to both look out for

in women and perhaps themselves?

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Tanith Lee: Okay.

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So I guess it depends on

people's level of what their

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relationships are like, aren't they?

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yeah.

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I don't want to talk about

my relationship or not.

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We did talk about this

last night actually.

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And, my, my husband just, he,

he didn't know what to do.

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So he chose to ignore it in his own

way because he just didn't know.

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He just didn't know what to do.

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And of course, that's, that's just, and

I think that's maybe a common, a common

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response to it because, if you're not used

to talking about these kinds of things.

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it's interesting.

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I think as a woman, we need

to understand what we need.

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in the time, at that time,

because it's going to change.

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Sometimes we'll need to be left alone.

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Sometimes we'll need a hug.

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Sometimes, we'll, we'll need something.

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And I think that's the first step is

for women to try and identify that.

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Sometimes that's not, that's not always

possible, but trying to identify that and

354

:

then communicate that to our loved ones.

355

:

And I think that's the bit I missed.

356

:

If I had been able to do that better, my

husband then would have known what to do.

357

:

So I, I think, I think there has to

be an element, there has to be some

358

:

kind of responsibility for the woman

to be able to say what she needs.

359

:

Otherwise, how is anyone gonna know?

360

:

and if she doesn't know, to say she

doesn't know, I think the more a man can.

361

:

He's not going to experience it,

so it's going to be really hard to

362

:

get that true empathy, but somehow

maybe just by listening to podcasts

363

:

like this, to doing, doing a bit

of research, there's some great,

364

:

there's some great information around.

365

:

And so there are, there are some bits and

pieces around written for men, what to

366

:

spot for, but it's just, I think it's.

367

:

Doing a little bit of research yourself

to understand that it's so much more

368

:

than a woman getting a bit grumpy

and feeling a bit hot and, her libido

369

:

goes because, that's a big concern.

370

:

That was a big concern of my

husband's and, that there is

371

:

more to it than, than that.

372

:

And I think it's been able

to have those conversations.

373

:

yeah, I think that's probably

the best thing they can

374

:

Sal Jefferies: Yeah, that's

really, really nicely put.

375

:

Tanith Lee: Can I just

add, just pick up on

376

:

something Sal, you mentioned earlier,

when you were talking about the

377

:

stress response, the narrative is,

for women, I think at menopause,

378

:

is to calm everything down.

379

:

Just calm, just go and zen out, and

I, and I think there's a lot to be

380

:

said for that, and I know we've talked

about this before, but I think that

381

:

That deep menopausal rage, that is

a thing, we can't suppress that.

382

:

It's not time to be the

good quiet girls anymore.

383

:

it's time, and I really, we do,

that needs to be expressed in a way.

384

:

and I think what you said is great,

boxing, anything like that, or whatever

385

:

it is, somehow to just get that rage out

in a safe, productive, a good way, I think

386

:

it's really important to let, as you said,

you said you use the word permission, not

387

:

that we need permission, but it's I think

women need to know that it's okay to feel

388

:

rage and to feel anger and to let it out

because a lot of that might have been

389

:

suppressed for a long time and as those

oestrogen levels go down and change our

390

:

natural maternal instincts start to lessen

and all of a sudden I'm going to say we.

391

:

I'm going to talk for me.

392

:

I'm like, actually, I am really

annoyed and whatever about

393

:

these situations and I am angry.

394

:

I've been doing this, this

and this or whatever it is.

395

:

And I think it's okay to express that.

396

:

but obviously in a way that's not going

to cause any, any harm to anybody else.

397

:

I think that's what I'm trying to say.

398

:

Yeah.

399

:

Sal Jefferies: yeah, absolutely.

400

:

And I'll echo that because it's

going on in my personal life.

401

:

It's going on with some

people I'm working with.

402

:

If we start to, if we start to shame

things like anger, like it's not okay to

403

:

be angry now, which is a caveat again,

we're not saying that you should be

404

:

screaming at people and taking it on

people that's not managing this emotion.

405

:

yeah, that, that can be moving towards

quite a, an aggressive state and

406

:

we're not suggesting that, but we

are suggesting is if there's rage, if

407

:

there's anger, it's a bona fide emotion.

408

:

It's coming up, trying to

suppress it by zenning out.

409

:

May not be your best strategy, so it

might look like, and so boxing works very

410

:

well because by default it uses, it's a

contact sport, I'm not saying boxing in

411

:

life, but just do a boxing class, but

there's something about when we fire

412

:

from the chest muscles, that's a very

sympathetic nervous system, that's a fight

413

:

response space, when we push from our

upper body, that's a fight response space.

414

:

seven billion.

415

:

Okay.

416

:

Most people don't know this.

417

:

If you push like pushups, you

are activating the fight response

418

:

and you're pressing away.

419

:

You're going to do a hundred press ups.

420

:

You're gonna feel a lot better.

421

:

Now, you might not be able to do

a hundred, but you, if you push

422

:

out seven and you're like, ah, you

have given permission for that,

423

:

for that biochemical electrical,

psychological process to go full circle.

424

:

And my sister, my sister spoke

about how she had to deal with her.

425

:

Perry Rager, she called it.

426

:

I've seen it my partner and some of

the women I've been working with.

427

:

And I think this is so

interesting around suppression.

428

:

So when I blend into my

psychotherapeutic model, anything

429

:

that's suppressed is bad news.

430

:

It's been shown in multiple

circles that you're likely to

431

:

move towards illness from this.

432

:

So suppression is bad news, full stop.

433

:

How you express is important.

434

:

So you might get some

therapeutic work done.

435

:

you might talk to a coach, you

might talk to TANF, a specialist,

436

:

you might talk to your mate.

437

:

It doesn't matter, but if it comes out and

it's expressed, then we don't suppress.

438

:

And then I think it's a really

important thing for health and

439

:

both mental and physical health.

440

:

Yeah, I just find it fascinating.

441

:

One thing I was going to say, I've got

another client, the information is private

442

:

here, but they said to me that they've

had a lot of anger coming out and they

443

:

went, they went some therapy a while back

before coming to my coaching practice.

444

:

And they realized that they buried

a lot of stuff from when they were

445

:

a teenage girl, when they were going

through a menstrual cycle coming on.

446

:

So what they found was is that

she's going through another,

447

:

hormonal transition in her life.

448

:

The echo from the past is coming back up.

449

:

The unfinished business

was ready to be done.

450

:

And it was like, Oh,

that's really interesting.

451

:

Thanks.

452

:

She worked with a trauma therapist

and they did a lot of processing.

453

:

And again, there's stuff coming out in

the, in the ecosystem of the mind body.

454

:

This ain't just a medical condition.

455

:

This is a, this is a whole hormonal

psychological condition and I just

456

:

wanted to call that out because I've

seen this from this almost professional

457

:

perspective from different angles

and that really intrigues me though.

458

:

If we understand this and

work with it better, I think

459

:

we want to just call it out.

460

:

Taniff, okay.

461

:

I'm a man and us men,

we like to fix things.

462

:

, I'm a coach and I do my

best to not fix things.

463

:

I help people.

464

:

by default men are fixers.

465

:

So for us fixing men who think gonna,

solve this menopause problem with

466

:

the misses so as men who are biased

towards fixing things, they have a

467

:

fix it mentality or, a sort of a,

some people can be a hero archetype

468

:

or saviour archetype, they're very,

let's do something about this, do.

469

:

When doing isn't the right

thing, what should us men be?

470

:

Considering, Thinking, Knowing.

471

:

Tanith Lee: From my personal

experience, I think being heard and

472

:

if not empathise with kind of, seen.

473

:

not being ignored.

474

:

I think that is, that was

my personal experience.

475

:

and being listened to.

476

:

And I think asking perhaps a

woman what, what it is she needs

477

:

would be a good starting point.

478

:

She may not know, but it would be,

even being asked that question.

479

:

means that you've been seen and heard.

480

:

And I think that's important.

481

:

But practically, I mean, there is,

there's loads of things that, you know,

482

:

if a woman is, if she's not sleeping

because she's up, maybe insomnia,

483

:

maybe night sweats, she's, she's

up and down, up and down all night.

484

:

She is exhausted.

485

:

That in itself, fatigue, exhaustion,

will affect any human being on any level.

486

:

Add that into all the other things

that are going on hormonally.

487

:

It's no wonder women are feeling just

absolutely knackered and stressed out

488

:

and just, not sure what's going on.

489

:

So I think actually there is, men can't

fix the menopause, but I think they can

490

:

do practical things to support a woman.

491

:

How she's feeling, so if she's tired.

492

:

Maybe ask if she needs more practical

help doing things, lighten the load.

493

:

Maybe it's doing more, doing

more in the house or, or I

494

:

don't know what that would be.

495

:

It depends on someone, but I think

that would be really helpful.

496

:

I think there, there are practical things

some, men can do or partners can do to

497

:

help their, their menopausal partner.

498

:

Yeah, so there are, there are things,

don't worry, there are things you can

499

:

fix if you want to, don't panic, there's

a list, I'm sure if you've got your

500

:

partner draw up a list, there'll be

lots of things that you can be getting

501

:

on with, so careful what you ask for.

502

:

Sal Jefferies: Exactly.

503

:

Yeah.

504

:

Do you know, because we're laughing at

this, but, and, and I think you need to

505

:

see the funny side when, things are good.

506

:

so between my, myself and my partner,

we should be going through these

507

:

roughly three month windows or cycles

and three months, things are pretty

508

:

good and she's, she's who she is.

509

:

I know her and three

months she's, she's off.

510

:

scaly lady.

511

:

with the one with the scales and you

know it's don't go near do not drop a

512

:

joke like that at that point it is not

going to go well and and like we can

513

:

joke about it when all is good and rosy

but it's it's yeah find some find some

514

:

lightness when you can but what i heard

in that and i just want to echo is you

515

:

need to know what you need oh you need

to be able to ask it both as a woman

516

:

as a man like like what do you need and

it probably needs to bounce back to the

517

:

man so like what what do you need and I

know my own, buttons have got pressed.

518

:

So one thing I've found as a man is

that when your partner changes and

519

:

they are not the person you, you met

or you got with, they, they become a

520

:

different version of that, of that woman.

521

:

It can feel, or it can trigger,

it's something that triggered for

522

:

me, some old patterns of rejection.

523

:

And that was really tough to deal with,

about how, how my stuff was coming up

524

:

and colouring my thinking and emotions.

525

:

which has nothing to do with what's

going on, but it was completely

526

:

triggered by the experience from my side.

527

:

And, and I think that's important.

528

:

We need to understand what our

needs are, both, both sides

529

:

and be able to speak of that.

530

:

It's just because we're not mind readers.

531

:

Just, just stop it.

532

:

No one can mind read.

533

:

You have to ask the question

and just get used to that.

534

:

What do you need today?

535

:

And it could bounce back.

536

:

Yeah.

537

:

Okay, cool.

538

:

What do you need?

539

:

Fine.

540

:

We now know, even if you don't know

what you need, the question, as you

541

:

beautifully said, you've been seen.

542

:

You've been seen and that's so important.

543

:

and perhaps even for, if a man's in a sort

of a insecure moment, yeah, I see you.

544

:

I don't know what I need, but I see you.

545

:

And that's, that's beautiful.

546

:

Talking about separating our stuff.

547

:

And this is coming from, from my space.

548

:

So as a man, it's easy to

get triggered when the person

549

:

that you know is different.

550

:

And you, your stuff comes up.

551

:

My, my take on it is you gotta do the

work and I have my own coach and therapist

552

:

and I, I'll continuously do the work that

I do with other people because why not?

553

:

I go to the gym all the time

and, I do my work all the time.

554

:

It's, it's how you stay well

and strong . It's deal with that

555

:

stuff that's coming up for you.

556

:

If it's, if you're a guy and

you're getting triggered, notice

557

:

it, it's really important because

you need that, that care as well.

558

:

And it's a great opportunity

to, to deal with.

559

:

Some unprocessed stuff.

560

:

And this brings me into

something more sensitive.

561

:

Intimacy.

562

:

Ah, okay.

563

:

suddenly we're not all

super lovey dovey anymore.

564

:

The intimacy might be going about the

window, libido's gone slightly downhill.

565

:

Okay, let's talk about that,

that subject which perhaps

566

:

doesn't get spoken about so much.

567

:

What's it like from a woman's

perspective when you know who you

568

:

are, you know how your body feels

and how you are in your relationship

569

:

and suddenly you don't feel the same.

570

:

What's that like for you?

571

:

Tanith Lee: hmm.

572

:

So I, I can talk from my own experience.

573

:

the menopause experience for

me was more psychological.

574

:

So I didn't really have so many of

the physical issues to start with.

575

:

they're catching up a little

bit now, but I didn't have.

576

:

hot flushes during the day.

577

:

I had terrible night sweats.

578

:

but I didn't, I didn't, I never

tallied the two things together.

579

:

Why would I was in my thirties?

580

:

Why would I be thinking about menopause?

581

:

I just didn't think about it.

582

:

so a lot of the time I was in my own head,

I guess is the best way, going through.

583

:

Feeling, having depressive kind

of thoughts and all those, and

584

:

it took me to, suicidal ideation.

585

:

let's, let's be honest.

586

:

We're here to be honest, right?

587

:

So that's where it took, it took me

very, yeah, that's where it took me.

588

:

So when I'm in, when I'm feeling like

that, the last thing I want is to be

589

:

intimate with someone and the answer's no.

590

:

That was my answer.

591

:

it's, and interesting.

592

:

I was talking to my husband about

this last night and he's, and you said

593

:

earlier about rejection and he said

he felt, he would have been, he would

594

:

have been in his thirties as well.

595

:

So it was really tough for him.

596

:

He was still a young man, not an old man

now, he was a young man and it was, it

597

:

was really, it was really tough for him.

598

:

He said it was really tough because

he took it as a personal rejection.

599

:

So not only are women, not only was I

not feeling like I wanted to be intimate

600

:

because I was just I felt so closed down.

601

:

I then felt guilty because I wasn't,

I wasn't able to bring something to

602

:

that side of our relationship, so it

just added to it and we didn't talk

603

:

about it because we didn't have the

tools back then, it's only now we can

604

:

reflect on it and this is why it's

important we have these conversations

605

:

right because we just He went off and

did, he dealt with stuff in his own way.

606

:

And I just shut down.

607

:

So that that's my experience.

608

:

Now, I've heard of people who

actually, it goes the other way.

609

:

All of a sudden, their libido gets,

increases and they get more, women

610

:

get more confident in themselves.

611

:

All of a sudden they're getting

older, they've got more experience,

612

:

they're feeling, feeling

more at ease in their body.

613

:

Now that's not as common, but

again, I just want to try and

614

:

keep the balance there a little

bit around women's experiences.

615

:

And I think again, it's the same thing.

616

:

I think.

617

:

Oh, it's so awkward and tricky for a lot

of people to talk about this stuff, but

618

:

finding a way to, to discuss it, I think

is the way, is the way forward, that is

619

:

not an area of my speciality, at all.

620

:

but I think conversations and the one

thing I have found about having awkward

621

:

conversations, because it's a running

theme in my relationship, is to change the

622

:

situation, where we have a conversation.

623

:

So for me, rather than just sitting there.

624

:

Opposite each other, which is quite

intimidating, going for a walk has

625

:

really been helpful and talking about

it, and actually on the phone as well,

626

:

that's something I've just recently

discovered, that having a, talking on the

627

:

phone about stuff feels easier as well.

628

:

but I will say, I'm, I'm a few

years post menopause now, my libido

629

:

has come back, stronger than ever.

630

:

So if that gives a little bit of

hope for the fellas out there,

631

:

yeah, just hang on in there.

632

:

I think hang on in there, lots of cuddles,

lots of reassurance, lots of touching,

633

:

and, and that kind of stuff I would

say for, for that and try not to take

634

:

it personally as a personal rejection.

635

:

It's just.

636

:

It's just something else that perhaps

a woman can't think about in that time.

637

:

We've got priorities, , and it's just,

I think that's, that's my all I can

638

:

say from my experience and a couple of

things I've heard from clients as well.

639

:

Sal Jefferies: Thank you.

640

:

Yeah, that's really, really

interesting to hear and thank you

641

:

for being so candid and honest.

642

:

yeah, it's interesting that you

make such a strong statement about,

643

:

try not to take it personally.

644

:

The problem with that is that if

it's encoded emotionally, so if we've

645

:

had a very difficult upbringing or

changing upbringing with attachment

646

:

issues, so if you don't know about

psychotherapeutics, there's some

647

:

principles around how we experience

connections to our parents, particularly

648

:

mother, but can be father as well.

649

:

How that affects us when we're young, how

that whole experience was for a young man.

650

:

can create a certain attachment

style and there's like avoidant

651

:

attachment, there's all these kind

of different attachment styles.

652

:

Put it this way, we don't need to get

caught up in the psychotherapeutics

653

:

of it, but what we do know, if you

get triggered, you're having a high

654

:

emotional response, you feel rejected

or feel hurt or very confused.

655

:

Don't bury it, because it's happening.

656

:

It's a little like we were suggesting, if

a woman's feeling raged, don't bury it.

657

:

Express it, but find a good way.

658

:

So for men, if you're like, oh

god, I feel literally rejected.

659

:

I don't know who my wife is,

or my partner is, or it could

660

:

be your business colleague.

661

:

I don't know who my business

colleague is anymore.

662

:

Just, whoever's being, feels

like a kind of rejection.

663

:

Attend to the experience of rejection

because that's going on for you and

664

:

that, again, if we suppress that

as a man, that's just as unhealthy.

665

:

So if it looks like, go get

some therapy on it, go speak to

666

:

someone who deals with this stuff.

667

:

There's plenty of skilled people that

can navigate you through that tricky bit.

668

:

And by goodness me, as soon as we

know something, us men, we're like,

669

:

Oh, okay, that's how this works.

670

:

Our wonderful brains come online and

we can start to process the emotions.

671

:

And actually then we're not adding to the

menopause problem, a subtle difficulty

672

:

where we are dealing with our stuff.

673

:

And you're, the woman in your

life is dealing with her stuff.

674

:

And then there's a growth together.

675

:

I think there's quite a powerful

thing about change equals growth,

676

:

but you have to choose growth, right?

677

:

You have to choose it.

678

:

If you deny or bury it with your

man or woman, Oh no, this is fine.

679

:

No, it's not fine.

680

:

This is happening.

681

:

That's what we do about it.

682

:

Okay, cool.

683

:

With, with intimacy, I think again, it's

coming down to having those conversations.

684

:

I love what you said about

going for a walk cause it's

685

:

a little less intimidating.

686

:

I think one of the things I would add

to that a bit more skillful conversation

687

:

is to talk from the first person.

688

:

So if it's a case of I say, you're not

touching me anymore and you don't want

689

:

to, be intimate, that's a quite a blame

orientation where if it's, I want to

690

:

touch you, but you don't like that.

691

:

Or, I want to be with you

intimately, but you're, you're,

692

:

you're not giving me the signals.

693

:

We're talking from the

first person's experience.

694

:

It is undeniable and it's not about blame.

695

:

And if we change that

nuance, just, I'm feeling.

696

:

I feel rejected.

697

:

I feel like I want to, I feel I miss you.

698

:

Whatever it is.

699

:

If you say from I, my goodness me, it

just helps smooth out the conversation.

700

:

It gets rid of blame and argument and

it gets into what true communication is.

701

:

I have the right to speak and I have

the right to be heard, and you have

702

:

the right to speak and the right

to be heard, and we together will

703

:

do a lot better if we do this, than

just throwing stuff at each other.

704

:

Cool.

705

:

Tanith, perhaps I can get your thoughts on

some things we haven't touched on so far,

706

:

about the whole experience, the menopause

experience, the run up, the experience.

707

:

What else would you like to bring today

and really help us understand better?

708

:

Tanith Lee: I think, it feels like.

709

:

I think the more we can understand

menopause before women are going through

710

:

it, and it's a tricky one, I think women

are, we're becoming more aware of cycles,

711

:

and women are tracking cycles, and, and

what's going on with their body, which

712

:

is great, that seems, that, that, that's

really good, and the more we can start

713

:

to understand that, perhaps, younger,

in our, thirties and forties, then, then

714

:

it's going to, Pretty much guarantee that

it's going to be an easier transition when

715

:

we get to that because we're looking at

where we're more in more in touch with

716

:

our bodies, we're more in touch with

our cycles, we know what's going on.

717

:

I think because of contraception,

which of course is needed.

718

:

A lot of women are completely unaware

of their cycles, and we even cycle after

719

:

we finish our periods, so it's, it's.

720

:

really understanding our bodies

and what we have in our needs.

721

:

There's a big movement now, even

training exercise in, in, with the,

722

:

with your cycle in certain phases

of your menstrual cycle, because we

723

:

are, we don't do go through cycles.

724

:

And if we can start to identify how

we're feeling and what we need in

725

:

those cycles, then, and, and, and,

and, and implementing those things.

726

:

Then as we, get into menopause,

coming towards menopause, we're much

727

:

more, attuned to what's going on.

728

:

And also probably we've started to

look after ourselves a little bit.

729

:

So it means our body is going to be.

730

:

Nourished in all ways, so whether that's

through food, whether that's through

731

:

relationships, whether that's through

whatever, whatever area of a life, not

732

:

feeling nourished, I think is a really

lovely word to use in, in, in menopause.

733

:

So awareness of what's going on.

734

:

And also I'm a big, big advocate

when I work with clients

735

:

is making little changes.

736

:

Because I think if a woman has got

two perimenopause and it feels like

737

:

she feels hopeless and she's really

struggling, any big change is going

738

:

to be really tricky, really tricky.

739

:

So I think little, little, little

micro changes I think are really,

740

:

and we don't value those micro

changes, but those little changes...

741

:

done over time can really add

up and make a big, make a big

742

:

influence to how a woman's feeling.

743

:

I think we feel like unless we're

making some big, grand, massive,

744

:

transformational gestures and changing

this and radically changing that, that

745

:

it's not going to make a difference.

746

:

And actually it really does.

747

:

And it feels much more doable

for somebody who is knackered.

748

:

all up and down moods and

maybe, different food cravings,

749

:

just, just feels more doable.

750

:

So don't underestimate small changes and

also the power of, power of eating well.

751

:

And it doesn't have to be perfect,

but just adding in some more of the

752

:

good stuff can make a difference.

753

:

We, our body has such, different

needs at different times of our lives.

754

:

So it needs more, particularly the body,

because it's a stress, it can be felt the

755

:

body can perceive it with the stress, so

we can add more nourishment into our body.

756

:

It's going to help the body give it

the nutrients it needs and a cellular

757

:

level to be able to perform basically.

758

:

so I just, I, I, I'm a great

advocate of adding in, just add it.

759

:

So I don't, for working with clients.

760

:

I've got a client at the moment, actually

her first, yeah, all we're doing with

761

:

her at the moment is just, I said,

look, I don't, I'm not going to say

762

:

to you, you're going to have to eat a

different type of meal to your family.

763

:

You're going to cook a separate meal

because that's just crazy, right?

764

:

Because that's just adding so much

more stress to your, to your day.

765

:

Let's just kind of like pimp

up your meal a little bit.

766

:

Let's just add some more bits

and pieces in that feels doable.

767

:

and then, that, that's

just an easy way to do it.

768

:

So it's just those easy

wins, I think is, is, is.

769

:

is what can be really helpful and

we hear about exercise and movement.

770

:

We are designed to move and even

more I think, as we're getting

771

:

older, our bodies are changing and

it's not just menopause, is it?

772

:

We're getting older and it's

looking after our bodies.

773

:

So it's, we hear about

resistance training, mobility.

774

:

looking after our heart health, so

cardiovascular, all these things.

775

:

But again, we can keep it simple

because sometimes that can

776

:

all feel a bit overwhelming.

777

:

Like we think, I've got to be

in the gym every day and it

778

:

doesn't have to be like that.

779

:

Again, 10 minutes of doing

something is better than no minutes.

780

:

10 pushups, as you said earlier,

it's better than no pushups

781

:

without, even two pushups.

782

:

is better than no push ups because they

add up and you said and that's really

783

:

interesting what you said earlier

about that push response to the stress.

784

:

I didn't know that so I've really learned

something new today, but I think that that

785

:

just those don't underestimate the little

changes I think is probably the take home.

786

:

Sal Jefferies: Yeah, beautiful.

787

:

Yeah, you're absolutely right.

788

:

And, because you're so experienced in this

field and you've seen it in nutrition,

789

:

you see it with exercise, you see it

with the women you're working with.

790

:

you're, and it's something.

791

:

I've seen, I think what we're talking

to here is a bigger, like a meta

792

:

thinking process, a boom and bust,

it's the sort of 12 weeks to a beach

793

:

body, which is just ridiculous.

794

:

It doesn't happen, right?

795

:

Give it 10 years, you'll get it, right?

796

:

12 weeks, to get it.

797

:

It's not.

798

:

And I'm all about consistency.

799

:

If you look at any literature,

any research around fitness,

800

:

health, nutritional changes,

body composition changes.

801

:

Consistency is key, and as you beautifully

alluded to, small steps, but consistently

802

:

applying that, whether you're adding

some, some, some, whatever nutrition

803

:

you need to be, B vitamins, whatever

the thing is, and same with movement.

804

:

Forget the big grand gestures, do the

work every day, small steps and as

805

:

you rightly said, it goes to compound

interest, the idea of finance is

806

:

that you save like a couple of quid

every day and it's compact, but over

807

:

time like you get a lot of return.

808

:

A health pension is exactly the same.

809

:

Invest small and often and don't start,

you will get so much reward and I want

810

:

to, I want to speak to the movement part.

811

:

So much of work I, I do

around human performance.

812

:

Yes.

813

:

I look at psychology.

814

:

It's a huge part.

815

:

Emotions.

816

:

Absolutely.

817

:

Fundamentally run how we're

thinking, but our body is our mind.

818

:

We are embodied.

819

:

We, we don't live in a body.

820

:

We live through our body.

821

:

So if our body is in not good

shape, because you've been

822

:

busy being a mom, you've been

busy with work, all this stuff.

823

:

Okay.

824

:

But the minute you wake up and

realize it's not quite as it needs

825

:

to be, it doesn't feel the way I

want it to be, that's the minute you

826

:

want to start making some changes.

827

:

As you've said, Hannah, it's

small changes, but keep repeating.

828

:

And Daily Yoga.

829

:

I'm, I'm no spring chicken, I say it a

lot, I'm, I'm, I'm pushing hard, I've

830

:

gone a half a century already and yes,

I'm not a woman, I'm not in menopause,

831

:

but to, to other men, I now, I now live

like an athlete, I train all the time

832

:

and now sometimes I can't do as much,

I'm not a kid, but because over the

833

:

last probably eight years, I've really

been steadily building up, building

834

:

up, building up, my body's okay, we get

this, we can do what you want to do now.

835

:

If I tried to do what I do

now, like in, in, even in six

836

:

months, I'd just be injured.

837

:

I'd be in a terrible state.

838

:

So I think the, the sort of take

home is get connected to your body.

839

:

Definitely.

840

:

And there's many ways somatic therapeutic

work, yoga, Tai Chi, and, for women,

841

:

and I was at the gym this morning and

I really applaud all the women there,

842

:

a lot of weightlifting going on.

843

:

And one thing I'll say to any

people who don't understand

844

:

exercise, it's not how you look.

845

:

That's when you're younger.

846

:

It's how you feel.

847

:

It really is.

848

:

And yes, body composition change is

nice, but you can't beat feeling strong.

849

:

You can't beat feeling connected.

850

:

You can't beat feeling

assured in yourself.

851

:

And yeah, you might, your body might

look a bit nicer or not as nice

852

:

as way, but the feeling supersedes

the image by such a large amount.

853

:

So if you're really struggling with how

you're feeling about yourself, I feel

854

:

one of the go tos is go to exercise.

855

:

And any exercise we'll do at the

beginning, just anything will

856

:

give you the moving forwards.

857

:

Because if you get a relationship

with your body that's strong, you

858

:

are in relationship with yourself.

859

:

And that is obviously one of

the hardest things that I see,

860

:

is that the relationship with

ourself is falling apart inside.

861

:

So if the relationship between

mind and body happens, we go there.

862

:

What's

863

:

your thoughts on that

864

:

Tanith Lee: Yeah.

865

:

Absolutely.

866

:

Absolutely.

867

:

I've been, I've taught various types

fitness since, I think it was:

868

:

So it's been, it's been a

while and that's changed.

869

:

And what I've noticed with my, I used

to be into the body transformation

870

:

and I've done that, I've done

that, I've done all of that stuff.

871

:

but I think anybody that's starting

with exercise or somebody that's perhaps

872

:

coming back into exercise, which is my

experience, because I've been getting

873

:

so many different injuries and it's put

me off doing the stuff I used to love,

874

:

which would be lifting heavy stuff.

875

:

For me to re regain that spark.

876

:

I just thought, what do I love doing?

877

:

And actually it's constant about a

bit with music, exercise to music.

878

:

Do you know that's, that,

that's what kind of gets me.

879

:

'cause it's the music, it's, that's

what kind of, and and, and it just

880

:

reminded me of just what you've said

about that connection and that joy,

881

:

and then, and a little bit of, it

feels a bit fun and I get that lift.

882

:

And from there then that's,

it feels like that kind of.

883

:

Fires up my brain then

to explore other stuff.

884

:

and weightlifting is fantastic.

885

:

and my own personal experiences.

886

:

It's so frustrating that I can't

at the moment do it as well

887

:

as I do it as much as I could.

888

:

because if I get so

many injuries and that.

889

:

As a woman goes through menopause,

the estrogen levels, when they drop,

890

:

it changes our muscle and it changes

our tendons and our ligaments.

891

:

And we get more prone to, to injuries.

892

:

So I would always, Make sure we're

following a program that takes into

893

:

account a change in women's body

if you're, if you're, if you're,

894

:

especially if you're new to it.

895

:

but yeah, there's, there's so much

evidence, isn't there, about exercise,

896

:

resistance training and, and.

897

:

And what you said about feeling strong.

898

:

I still want to be able to go

in the garden and lug out, lug

899

:

the massive bags of compost.

900

:

I still want to feel that strong.

901

:

I've, I've, that's powerful for me.

902

:

So that's my kind of motivation

to do that, to feel strong.

903

:

Not so much, how it looks.

904

:

Yeah, if it happens, it's nice,

but it's just, it's the feeling.

905

:

of it.

906

:

And I think that, that

changes my motivation as well.

907

:

Then it changes how I train a little

bit more rather than just the aesthetic.

908

:

I've had a six pack.

909

:

I've been really lean.

910

:

I've done all that.

911

:

It still wasn't enough.

912

:

I still looked in the mirror and I still

thought, so it's more than that for me.

913

:

And I'm not saying there's nothing wrong

with body transformation, all that.

914

:

But I think, it's just finding for women,

finding a way that works, works for them.

915

:

So if you need to go and do Zumba or

anything like, dancey, go and do it.

916

:

If it gets you moving and it makes

you smile and it gets you a bit hot

917

:

and sweaty, great, because it just,

it's invigorating and I think on a

918

:

cellular level when you get into that.

919

:

Sal Jefferies: Absolutely.

920

:

Yeah, I love that.

921

:

And a word you said there which is so

important, certainly if you're having

922

:

darkness and difficulty, is joy.

923

:

joy is such a vibrant human

experience and it's not happiness.

924

:

When it's about buying things

that's, that's, joy is this depth.

925

:

You can't

926

:

change it.

927

:

Joy is this sort of inner

radiance, inner loveliness.

928

:

That is just so wonderful.

929

:

And if you're really struggling.

930

:

If you can find moments of joy, then

they're kind of like, I imagine like

931

:

a, lily pads, which is like a beautiful

frog would hop and that joy lily pad.

932

:

You can jump onto it.

933

:

Yeah, it's a bit of rubbishy

water in between, but let's

934

:

hop onto the next joy lily pad.

935

:

And.

936

:

and that's what I've seen from my

personal, in my personal life, and some

937

:

of the clients I've been working with, is

finding those points, so they're almost

938

:

way points, so if you're in a difficult

place, know that there's a good bit

939

:

coming, you might be going to the gym, you

might be going to Zumba, you, whatever it

940

:

is, You might be speaking to your other

half and saying, you know what, tonight I

941

:

need you to go, or I need a foot massage

or we need to the pub, whatever it is.

942

:

And, and that permission, that,

that communication, that openness,

943

:

it seems to me to be some of the

most important constituents to

944

:

navigate, menopause and that whole

experience in a more healthy way.

945

:

So we're not saying it's

going to magically be better.

946

:

That's just silly.

947

:

it's going to be difficulty, but if

difficulty is balanced by some joy

948

:

and some connections and growth, then.

949

:

there's a lot of spiritual masters

that talk about suffering is

950

:

beautiful if you understand it well.

951

:

So we're not talking

about living in misery.

952

:

No, of course not.

953

:

But getting through adversity.

954

:

but with understanding and learning

that creates post traumatic growth.

955

:

Disoppression and not understanding

stuff, confusion can create more

956

:

like a post traumatic response.

957

:

So if we aim for growth, it's

like, how do I make sense of this?

958

:

How do I have people on board?

959

:

And everything we've covered

today, hopefully will be some

960

:

of those constituent pieces.

961

:

Tanith Lee: No, I love that.

962

:

And I love what you said about, I can't

remember the exact phrase, but for what

963

:

you said, but I've got the analogy of

the lily pads and I love, and I love

964

:

that, that I can, I'm quite a visual

person, so I can really see that.

965

:

and my, my daughter, she, she's 20

now, but she probably said this about

966

:

a year ago to me, when I was going

through a little bit of, Feeling a

967

:

bit, feeling a bit low and stuff.

968

:

And she said, Mum, she goes, I

have to have something to look

969

:

forward to every week that I'm

going to do or, with someone.

970

:

She goes, otherwise, what's the point?

971

:

And those words have really

stuck with me because I just

972

:

thought, that's it, isn't it?

973

:

It's just finding those little things.

974

:

that we can look forward to, even

if we're feeling really rubbish,

975

:

even if it's small, doesn't have

to cost money, none of that.

976

:

You're just having those little

things to look forward to, just

977

:

so we can take our eyes from the

ground and lift them up to the sky.

978

:

Just have a little bit

of, a little bit of hope.

979

:

And I think, yeah, what you said

about, hopping from the lily pads.

980

:

I'm going to take that with me today.

981

:

Thank you for sharing that.

982

:

Sal Jefferies: You're very welcome.

983

:

You're very welcome.

984

:

I'm going to sum up something from

a man's side, and I'd love for

985

:

you to sum up from a woman's side.

986

:

so as a man experiencing, say, my

partner going through menopause, it's

987

:

been really hard, and I've learnt a lot

about us, and I've learnt a lot about

988

:

tolerance, I've learnt a lot about what

I need to work on in me, and, and I've

989

:

also learnt that nothing lasts forever.

990

:

So if you're having a difficult month or

whatever it is, it's yeah, this is tough.

991

:

But here's the thing, nothing lasts

forever, it doesn't biochemically, it

992

:

doesn't psychologically, everything

goes through cycles, so know that

993

:

if you're in a tricky spot, you're

gonna, you're gonna come through it.

994

:

But what can you learn about yourself?

995

:

Speak up, listen up, and

create that communication.

996

:

Those are the things that have worked and

made things better in my personal life.

997

:

I've had a lot of the female clients I've

worked with echo similar things, so that's

998

:

what I've seen from a male perspective.

999

:

Tanith, what would you like to close on

for, for your thoughts and your wisdom?

:

00:51:56,911 --> 00:52:00,571

Tanith Lee: I think the menopause

is just a part of aging.

:

00:52:00,581 --> 00:52:05,751

We haven't talked about what happens

to men when they go through a hormone.

:

00:52:05,751 --> 00:52:09,461

It's not as, as, as, as obvious,

but change, it's just change and

:

00:52:09,461 --> 00:52:10,841

it's just getting older, isn't it?

:

00:52:10,851 --> 00:52:12,651

And it's just noticing that.

:

00:52:13,721 --> 00:52:16,871

and you, you just use the

word wisdom and I love that.

:

00:52:17,031 --> 00:52:23,101

And I really do think there is so

much wisdom For women, we've got so

:

00:52:23,451 --> 00:52:27,761

much to give, and we do ourselves a

disservice as we go through menopause.

:

00:52:28,581 --> 00:52:32,091

And if you think how long

we're living now, potentially

:

00:52:32,241 --> 00:52:34,911

half our life post menopause.

:

00:52:35,061 --> 00:52:35,761

Potentially.

:

00:52:36,431 --> 00:52:37,191

That's huge.

:

00:52:37,841 --> 00:52:39,481

And a lot of women are

writing themselves off.

:

00:52:40,116 --> 00:52:43,736

They like saying they're not, don't

feel sexy, they don't feel seen, they

:

00:52:43,736 --> 00:52:48,876

don't feel, worthwhile, all that stuff,

which is just, unfortunately, like

:

00:52:48,876 --> 00:52:53,586

a script we've been fed because it

isn't like that in the whole world.

:

00:52:53,736 --> 00:52:59,176

There are parts of the world that the

elder woman, is revered and, she's

:

00:52:59,176 --> 00:53:04,686

full of wisdom and strength and she's,

she's someone to be admired and looked

:

00:53:04,686 --> 00:53:07,126

upon with, for, yeah, for the wisdom.

:

00:53:07,126 --> 00:53:09,316

So I think it's taking

that with, with that.

:

00:53:09,336 --> 00:53:15,516

It's understanding our own menopause

script and how we can start to change

:

00:53:15,516 --> 00:53:21,376

that for ourselves and for those around

us and perhaps for the generations to

:

00:53:21,376 --> 00:53:26,921

come, because We can rewrite it because

we could have so much to give and I

:

00:53:26,931 --> 00:53:29,691

think we have to go through this change.

:

00:53:30,281 --> 00:53:33,601

Mother Nature just needs, it's

given us a little bit of a whoop,

:

00:53:34,671 --> 00:53:36,551

a little bit of a take notice.

:

00:53:36,691 --> 00:53:41,131

you've got opportunities here to grow,

to learn and to, to, to without sounding

:

00:53:41,131 --> 00:53:43,321

too cheesy and cliche, step into, this.

:

00:53:44,481 --> 00:53:48,261

Older, wiser version of

yourself, and it's all possible.

:

00:53:48,321 --> 00:53:50,121

So I think that's really

what I'd like to share.

:

00:53:50,661 --> 00:53:51,231

Sal Jefferies: Beautiful.

:

00:53:51,421 --> 00:53:51,911

Beautiful.

:

00:53:51,991 --> 00:53:52,501

Love that.

:

00:53:52,761 --> 00:53:56,781

and if we're only halfway done,

we need to invest in everything,

:

00:53:56,911 --> 00:53:58,421

ourselves, everything, isn't it?

:

00:53:58,691 --> 00:54:01,851

If you're only halfway there,

do not write yourself off.

:

00:54:02,091 --> 00:54:04,931

I, I, I'm a big advocate

of this in midlife.

:

00:54:04,971 --> 00:54:07,551

I'm like, okay, midlife, people

talk about midlife crisis.

:

00:54:08,031 --> 00:54:10,411

people don't understand the

word crisis comes from the Greek

:

00:54:10,561 --> 00:54:12,471

krisis, which means choice.

:

00:54:12,846 --> 00:54:13,356

Decision.

:

00:54:14,426 --> 00:54:17,576

So you have a decision at midlife,

whether you're male or female.

:

00:54:18,526 --> 00:54:19,786

What are you going to choose?

:

00:54:19,826 --> 00:54:21,636

Because choice is power, right?

:

00:54:21,646 --> 00:54:23,026

It's the ultimate gift of consciousness.

:

00:54:23,026 --> 00:54:25,056

If what we choose, how do

I, how do I work with this?

:

00:54:25,056 --> 00:54:25,686

What do I do?

:

00:54:26,006 --> 00:54:29,056

Choice is power and what you

said there is just mind blowing.

:

00:54:29,476 --> 00:54:29,706

Yeah.

:

00:54:29,706 --> 00:54:29,946

Okay.

:

00:54:29,946 --> 00:54:30,156

God.

:

00:54:30,156 --> 00:54:30,396

Yeah.

:

00:54:30,396 --> 00:54:31,136

We're only halfway done.

:

00:54:31,136 --> 00:54:31,846

Thanks for reminding me.

:

00:54:31,846 --> 00:54:32,506

Of course we are.

:

00:54:32,816 --> 00:54:36,226

And if you're halfway done, there's

a lot of good stuff to come.

:

00:54:36,226 --> 00:54:36,556

So

:

00:54:37,786 --> 00:54:38,126

yeah.

:

00:54:38,176 --> 00:54:38,726

Amazing.

:

00:54:39,606 --> 00:54:39,956

Wow.

:

00:54:40,046 --> 00:54:42,506

thank you so much for sharing

some of your thoughts.

:

00:54:42,526 --> 00:54:44,876

Of course you are super

knowledgeable on this.

:

00:54:44,936 --> 00:54:48,086

we will put Tanya's details in the show

notes for anyone who wants to reach out

:

00:54:48,086 --> 00:54:51,536

and learn more because she obviously has

vast amounts of knowledge, more than I do.

:

00:54:51,606 --> 00:54:53,106

And, and obviously an absolute specialist.

:

00:54:53,476 --> 00:54:54,586

it is lovely to see you.

:

00:54:54,686 --> 00:54:55,286

Thank you.

:

00:54:55,396 --> 00:55:00,266

And, My dear listener, I hope you

have collected wisdom, insights, and

:

00:55:00,266 --> 00:55:04,236

perhaps a few nuggets you can implement

into your life with a man, with

:

00:55:04,236 --> 00:55:07,326

your man or woman, whether it's your

partner or your colleague or friend,

:

00:55:08,436 --> 00:55:11,646

take action, make your own choices,

and I'll see you on the next one.

:

00:55:15,030 --> 00:55:16,680

Thank you so much for listening.

:

00:55:16,950 --> 00:55:20,520

If you enjoyed the episode,

please subscribe and if a friend

:

00:55:20,520 --> 00:55:23,610

would benefit from hearing this,

do send it on to them as well.

:

00:55:24,810 --> 00:55:27,810

If you would like to get in touch

yourself, then you can go to my website,

:

00:55:28,050 --> 00:55:36,720

which is sal jeffries.com, spelled S

A L J E F E R I E s sal jeffries.com.

:

00:55:37,020 --> 00:55:40,380

Hit the get in touch link and there

you can send me a direct message.

:

00:55:41,325 --> 00:55:44,205

If you'd like to go one step further

and learn whether coaching could help

:

00:55:44,205 --> 00:55:48,885

you overcome a challenge or a block

in your life, then do reach out and

:

00:55:48,885 --> 00:55:52,275

I offer a call where we can discuss

how this may be able to help you.

:

00:55:53,145 --> 00:55:55,065

Until the next time, take care.

Show artwork for Mindset, Mood & Movement

About the Podcast

Mindset, Mood & Movement
Human performance podcast for life and business
Feeling stuck, stressed and exhausted is bad for you, your health and your business. But it doesn’t have to be like this.

Sal Jefferies is a coach who helps founders overcome anxiety, build confidence and become healthy. This podcast will help you feel calm, confident and strong in life and business.

Sal has a unique coaching philosophy which integrates psychology, emotional regulation and embodied action. This podcast aims to share knowledge, skill and strategies from these 3 interwoven areas - mindset, mood & movement.

Each fortnight, Sal will be in conversation with a guest from a specialist field of human performance and behaviour. The week in between will be Sal's own shorter episode where he's goes deep into various topics - all created to give you the tools to become calm, confident & strong.


About your host

Profile picture for Sal Jefferies

Sal Jefferies

I believe in helping people become free - free of anxiety; to be authentic; to not worry of what others think of you. Free to create, to love and free to be calm, confident and strong.

I understand what it’s like to find life difficult, to deal with challenges and to feel lost; that’s why I over the last 15 years I have immersed myself in yoga, psychology and human behaviour. I have been on a journey of deep change and growth and I know at the core of most life choices is the desire for freedom and peace. I work with people who think deeply and feel deeply and looking to change, evolve and grow.

I don’t take myself too seriously and I bring a light and positive energy to my work. When I’m not coaching, I love reading and learning about anything to do with the human experience. I am also super active and movement is a big part of my life - running, swimming, strength training, doing yoga or enjoying being out with my dogs.