How can you handle adversity, trauma, tragedy and threats using the Havening Technique?

Sal Jefferies: 00:00:03

Welcome to Mindset, Mood and Movement, a systemic approach to human

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behavior, performance, and well being.

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Our psychological, emotional, and

physical health are all connected,

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and my guests and I endeavor to share

knowledge, strategies, and tools for

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you to enrich your life and work.

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Hello and welcome.

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I'm joined today by my guest Mark

Wingfield, and we're going to be coming

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some really interesting, but some quite

sensitive areas around how do we handle

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adversity, trauma, tragedy, and threats.

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And using, what Mark uses is a

psychosensory approach called the

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Havening Technique, which we're

going to go into and learn more.

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A little, care note.

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We are going to be talking about

some sensitive issues around trauma.

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so please be aware there

is some sensitive content.

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It doesn't go too deep.

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And, Mark explains things in a way

that's very professional and very safe.

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but hopes to share that.

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There are ways to overcome

difficulties and traumas and some

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of the bad things that may happen.

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So I want you to be aware of that.

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Now, Mark is, as we said, a

havening trainer and he's a speaker.

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He also works with adrenal stress,

programs, and really helped people

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come to their full potential.

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So I'm really excited to have Mark.

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share with us today the

processes that he works with.

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And I don't know much about

the havening technique myself.

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So I'm going to sit back a little

more on this one and become a

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learner too, to learn about how

this approach might help all of

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those areas that we've spoken about.

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Adversity, trauma, tragedy,

threats, and perhaps how we can

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apply that for ourself and how you

might learn more to take forward.

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Welcome Mark.

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It's good to have you.

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Mark Wingfield: Thank you Sal, lovely to

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be here.

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Sal Jefferies: Mark, I'm intrigued

because you've already shared to me

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this lovely approach that you do.

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It's fascinating.

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I'd like to go a little deeper,

like how did you get to this

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point in your life so you became a

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practitioner of havening and what is that?

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Mark Wingfield: Well, that's that's

a really good question and I'll give

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you a potted history because it time

to unpack that but was, I didn't

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come to Havening by the normal route.

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Within the Havening community we

have people who are dyed in the wool

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psychotherapists, very experienced,

very capable, Come from all sorts

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of different backgrounds, using

all sorts of different modalities.

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We have neuroscientists.

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We have psychologists.

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We really very experienced people.

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And then there's me.

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And I, I came to Havening

because I'm curious.

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And you have to be curious

to, to look at Havening.

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That's all, all you have to ask

for because Havening will, will do

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the But I come from a background

where a very experienced trainer.

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And my business had evolved primarily

providing conflict management,

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I had a particular niche in

helping people with aggression and

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violence, although all that I did.

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And somebody said to me one day, Oh,

ought to get into havening, Sorry?

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I've been to havering.

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What on earth is havening?

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They said, no, no, you don't understand.

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It's about putting people in a safe haven.

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I said, well, okay.

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So how does that apply to me?

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And I'd mentioned to this on my courses,

where the aggression and violence courses,

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the way that we work is quite intimidating

at times, it's designed to be scary.

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So that people experientially learn how

to deal with nasty And be successful.

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But because it's scary, sometimes,

using the methodology we use,

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some people can't access it.

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Because they're like, Crikey,

what's he going to say to me?

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What's he going to do?

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And they've had prior trauma, and they're

just not in a place to even be in the same

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room to see that sort of stuff happen.

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So, curious, and I thought, well, I'll

talk to the guy that's running the

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training And I'll talk to some people

that I know have been involved in And

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so I first spoke to a lady called Annie.

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And the reason I did that was because I

saw a picture of Annie as a demonstration

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volunteer in a Havening session.

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I thought, that's Annie!

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What's she doing there?

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So I phoned her up and said,

what's this Havening about?

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She said, Oh, it's brilliant!

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Absolutely brilliant!

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tell me, tell me all.

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Anyway, so she told me more about it,

how she got immediate sounds interesting.

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So I phoned up the guy afterwards

who was running the training.

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And he said, look, be as

sceptical as you like.

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He said, I was.

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Because it just sounds far too

good to be You know, you rub your

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arms, or stroke your face, or

your palms, and it all goes away.

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He said, there's a lot more to

it than that, of course, but

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it's backed by neuroscience.

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It was developed by a neuroscientist

who became a In fact, he's just retired

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after 40 years as And he said, you

know, if you think it can help you,

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and I was thinking about a one to

one treatment for those people that

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couldn't access the scary training.

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He said, if you're interested, you

know, come along to the training

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and make of it what you will.

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So I came along, fairly

sceptical, but intrigued.

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The words of Annie ringing in my ears,

there's something to this, clearly, but

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what it I sat down, and one of the first

things we did was we had a demonstration.

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And I saw a lady called Patty, who I'm

still in contact with she had had an awful

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situation where, briefly put, her mum had

died very on the operating and Patty had

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said to her mum that morning, Look mum,

stop worrying about the operation, you're

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going to be fine, I'll see you later.

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never saw her mother again.

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So she was traumatised by her last

words, her last argument with her mum,

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you know, the memory of that, and I saw

her over a period of, I think, it was

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about half an hour, something like that,

maybe 40 minutes maximum, and we saw

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this transformation in Patty, where she

explained what the problem was initially,

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tears, every time she thought of her

mum, over the years, there were always

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And the trainer took her through, very

and I was just watching he's obviously

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got a focus here, and there were more

tears, briefly, but then there was this

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change, and she seemed a lot calmer, and

anyway, was called to a close, the and

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Patty turned to the audience, and And

there were tears streaming down her face.

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I thought, oh, it still crying.

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And she could see the

incredulity audience's faces.

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no, no, no, no, these are tears of joy.

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She said, I can't believe I'm

thinking about my mum, and

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I'm not really, really upset.

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I'm so unburdened.

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I can't remember exactly the

word she used, but it was kind

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of, oh, dropped the shackles.

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And I thought, ooh, okay, so we then had

a cup of coffee and I went over to Patti

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and I said, but this is just amazing.

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So I was hooked and, so we did the two

days training and by the end of it, I was

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a little bit competent in delivering And

that started, that was: 2015

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I, I certified in science so that's, that

was my bizarre way into Havening, and I

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didn't really use it for, in a great way.

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In a great way, in a, in

very regularly I should say.

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I used it in a great way, in lots

of ways, lots of relief for people.

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But anyway, it took me a while

to get into it, and because I was

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very busy doing my other stuff.

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And then lockdown And all my business

died Because practically all of it

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was face to Now the lovely thing about

Haveney is you can do it online as well.

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So I've helped North America,

Asia, all over the world.

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Just through things like Zoom, or

Skype, or whatever it happens And

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I thought, well, maybe I can, pick

up the crumbs of the business here,

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and, least earn some money, because

I had no money coming in whatsoever.

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And, anyway, so that reset me.

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And I'd been asked to be

a Havening trainer before.

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I'd helped out on the very

first French training in: 2015

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I speak fluent German, I'd helped the

rst German online training in: 2021

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And I thought, yeah, timing's right now.

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So, anyway, so I've been doing

it for a couple of years now as

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a, as a trainer, adding havening

to existing doing in the past.

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And so that's a bit convoluted how I got

here, but that's the, that's the story.

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that's, how I got to be involved

in havening on a regular basis.

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And it's my primary focus

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Sal Jefferies: Thank you.

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That's really, really interesting.

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I'm intrigued by your sort of

skepticism as well, because

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certain practices there's many practices

in the world for all sorts of, needs

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modalities and, and yes, sometimes

things can sound too good to be true.

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I had an old friend that used to say

like, you know, always, if you're going

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to experience something in life, try to

experience it, suspend judgment you've

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experienced it and then you'll know.

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And I, and I really I've always

taken that sort of premise

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forward and it's intriguing.

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Well, I'll make a point.

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trauma is something I've worked with

both from my psychotherapeutic origins.

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it's in my, with friends

and people I know.

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So I understand that trauma is,

there's layers of trauma and

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levels of it, but it's, it's tough

and it's, and it's difficult.

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So if, if, um, if you're listening and

this is a little triggering for you,

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obviously just be mindful to be okay with

this and choose whether this is right.

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But Mark and I will obviously

aim to hold the space safely.

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Um, yeah.

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And I'm really interested because you

mentioned to me about conflict management

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and, And the scary stuff which when I

think about something like havening and,

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healing and that loveliness, that healing

a person, that's wonderful, isn't it?

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But when you mention about

violence and, conflict management,

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that's the scary stuff.

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And

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it piqued my interest because I did a

course a while back with a company called

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Pilgrims with their own setup in a village

where we went through hostage training.

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And it

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was for overseas people like

journalists and foreign officials.

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I was fortunate enough to

join them for various reasons.

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And it was I think three days

of training where we were put

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through literally Hostile ambushes,

explosions really intimidating stuff.

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And I understand that some of the work

you've done, what intrigues me is how an

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individual like you has got that field,

like, you know, that's a scary place.

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That almost warfare style, violent place.

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And yet now you're blending into

the haven in the healing space.

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How do you manage that?

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how have you, not manage, I would

say, perhaps I'm intrigued about

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how do you bring the skills and

understanding from both of those spaces?

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to, to work and

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to help people.

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Mark Wingfield: That's a

really good question, I think

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that's my opening into Haven.

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That's how I started empathise

and understand about people

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who had been traumatised.

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I consider myself very lucky in

that I don't believe, That I've

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had any really severe trauma But I

know many, many people that have.

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And sometimes they wouldn't

class it as trauma, it's just,

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well, that's how I grew up.

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Well, quite traumatic.

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Environments can We talk about the

landscape of the brain within Havening,

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that has a huge impact on whether somebody

will be traumatised, and whether somebody

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else will not be, even though two people.

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Observe or experience exactly the same

thing, but I, I saw people in my work

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dealing with aggression and violence

who not in a we, we worked and still

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work frontline staff who've assaulted,

whether that's verbal or physical.

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And in fact, my very first.

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Commercial application of Havening I

happened to know the managing director

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of a railway And he said, Oh, I wonder

if you can help this sexually in the line

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of her serving food and drink on a train.

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I won't get into the detail of

what happened, it happened just

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before she was going on holiday.

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And she left the train, having

endured that experience,

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and she wasn't going back.

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I'm done.

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I can't go back on that train.

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I'll be in the same place, same

day, every day, if I go back.

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And she was going off for two

weeks holiday, and the company

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contacted me and said, Look, this

lady's had this awful experience.

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Can you help her?

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I said, I don't know.

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the circumstances.

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I'm very happy to talk to the

lady if she'll allow me to.

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And we had an initial telephone call.

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And I explained my background,

what I intended And whether she

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wanted to the phone, or on Zoom, Or

whether she'd like me me that brief

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that they were happy to fund it.

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So, she said no, I'd

rather do it in person.

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So, I said okay.

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So I went up to Hull, where she was based.

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And, got a private office, and she'd

come in, especially on a holiday,

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know, she seemed fine on the outside,

and then we started talking, and

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I saw the police report, and, not

very nice lovely thing about Haven

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is you don't have to talk about it.

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So, I said, tell me as much

as you feel comfortable with.

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She said, well I don't really want

All the details in the police report.

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So I said, okay, let me just read

the police read the police report.

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I thought, I've got enough

said about Looking at How I was

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going to help her explained the

methodology got a permission.

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In fact, I asked for permission.

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I said This is a psychosensory

approach it involves touch.

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Now, I fully understand if you don't want

me coming anywhere near you, particularly

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based on what you've just been through.

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Strangely, she actually allowed me to, but

the touch is only on the shoulders, the

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arms, the face, So it's not intrusive, but

you do need to seek And, so I, she allowed

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me to apply it to the arms and shoulders.

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And, within 40 minutes, The

emotional stress And looking at me

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kind of, what, What have you done?

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Has it really gone?

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And, I said, yeah, it's

a permanent process.

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It's a biological change

that we've affected here.

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You and me.

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And she was grinning from

ear to Well, I love my job.

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That means I can go back to my job.

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That's fantastic.

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So, That was brilliant in the first

place, but I looked on my watch, I

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thought, well, this only took I've

come all the way from to Hull, and the

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company's paid me to do this, a bit

more time yet, and I said this to her,

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I said, look, you know, the company's

very kindly funded is there anything

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else we can help you said, Oh, know.

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What, what, what do you mean?

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I said, well, for example, this

works really well on phobias.

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Cause phobias are I said, Oh,

well, I've got a couple of Okay.

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I'm a bit embarrassed.

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a clown okay.

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Oh, and an ant phobia.

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Right.

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Not combined.

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Didn't happen at the same time.

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No, no, no.

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They're quite separate.

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Important to check.

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Anyway.

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So, We worked on the clown phobia

and cleared that very quickly

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because it was based on some scary

films that she'd seen as a child.

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And that was Event Havening,

just like incident on the train.

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If it's event based, one off, not

associated with other things, it's

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relatively easy and quick to Permanently.

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And then the Ant Phobia is when

she was a little girl, she was

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in the woods, and she was playing

with some friends, laid her head...

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got covered to lie on an that started it

So again, that was cleared really quickly,

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and so within a short space of time very

happy and she said, oh, are we done then?

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Say well, I'm very happy to

work with you any further.

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Is there anything you'd like to

work on in terms of development?

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Because Haveny is brilliant for trauma

and nasty stuff, but it's also wonderful

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to Build resilience to build capability

and there's a whole other side to

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Havenick which isn't talked about

that much but is just as very useful.

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In fact, half the people I train

as practitioners from the coaching

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world rather than the trauma Anyway,

so I did a few bits and pieces but

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not really that much after that.

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She was very happy, she kind of

skipped out of the office and The

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health and safety manager looking

shocked, She's just given me a hug.

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She never gives What have you been doing?

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So I said, well, all with her

permission, I did this, blah, blah, blah.

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he said, I've never seen her

like So I said, well, you know,

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that's kind of what happens.

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And he sat down and said, we need to talk.

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can never let this happen ever again to

our staff, and that's when we sat down

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and talked about training all of and

that's what we so that their assaults

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dropped from a very high unacceptable

level to three assaults, these are

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verbal assaults, in 180, 000 journeys.

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And he's the health and safety

guy, he measured it meticulously.

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Also encouraged people to

report things they might just

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think minor, you know, you...

305

: 00:18:55

expletives here, but just you, whatever,

that would be shouted across the gate

306

: 00:19:01

line carriage, that sort of stuff, that

would be recorded as a verbal assault.

307

: 00:19:05

three and And, so that was wonderful.

308

: 00:19:11

And the, the HR lady what's,

been to come back to work.

309

: 00:19:19

saying she didn't want

to And we were pleased.

310

: 00:19:23

Delighted, but we're kind of,

we didn't expect it to be this

311

: 00:19:28

So, that's what Havening can do.

312

: 00:19:30

and it was a lovely blend, it kind of

mirrors going back to what I was saying

313

: 00:19:34

earlier about how you can help somebody

nasty, violent in this instance situation

314

: 00:19:44

and just help them grow, lose stuff

that's happened in the past and move on.

315

: 00:19:51

In fact, the book that started this all,

which was written by a guy called Dr.

316

: 00:19:54

Ron is called When the

Past is Always Present.

317

: 00:20:01

And it's all about causes of

traumatisation, and you learn

318

: 00:20:05

how traumatisation a trauma

therapist, practitioner.

319

: 00:20:11

And then how you, and, and the

encoding process that's with

320

: 00:20:14

you for life to protect you.

321

: 00:20:17

And then you learn how, the biology

of that, and how with Havening,

322

: 00:20:21

reverse the encoding process.

323

: 00:20:24

Now, if it's Event Havening,

it's pretty straightforward.

324

: 00:20:28

If it's far more complicated, and

you talked about layers earlier,

325

: 00:20:32

and I often refer to it as layers of

an onion, you take away something.

326

: 00:20:37

got some relief.

327

: 00:20:39

Ooh, something underpinning that.

328

: 00:20:41

Ooh, okay, let's get rid of that one.

329

: 00:20:43

And, you know, if it's very complex,

like complex PTSD, for then it'll

330

: 00:20:48

take a lot longer, but it's still

remarkably quick most approaches.

331

: 00:20:55

So, yeah,

332

: 00:20:57

Sal Jefferies: Not at all.

333

: 00:20:58

That's intriguing.

334

: 00:20:59

Absolutely intriguing.

335

: 00:21:00

And I'm wondering if you could

go just a little into the science

336

: 00:21:03

because I, I a certain amount.

337

: 00:21:05

I don't know where we were, what,

how we're going to scale it but you

338

: 00:21:07

know, how neural states as in fight,

flight, flow, freeze, or shut down

339

: 00:21:11

the different nervous system states.

340

: 00:21:13

Um, as you know, I mentioned I'm a

breathwork, practitioner teacher.

341

: 00:21:18

a, great mediator of emotional

regulation for a lot of people.

342

: 00:21:22

And it's something I, I really you

know, teach with my coaching clients

343

: 00:21:26

and people are just like, even the

basics, just get the basics right.

344

: 00:21:30

But I'd love you to say a little

more about the kind of the science

345

: 00:21:34

of, of, of how that might happen.

346

: 00:21:36

So you mentioned touch, you mentioned the

347

: 00:21:38

You might touch the sort of shoulder

area of a person and the outer

348

: 00:21:41

arm area and perhaps the palms.

349

: 00:21:43

now I know a lot about the hands.

350

: 00:21:44

There's, there's more,

neural stimulation, i.

351

: 00:21:46

e.

352

: 00:21:46

there's more nerves in your

hands, and lips and tongue

353

: 00:21:49

than anywhere else in the body.

354

: 00:21:51

So it's called the word, homoculus,

but it's part of the brain.

355

: 00:21:56

It's all this coding.

356

: 00:21:57

So hands are very powerful.

357

: 00:21:59

we have a lot of sense in our hands, but

certainly as a, uh, as an experiencer or

358

: 00:22:03

as practitioner, so tell me, can you say

a little more about how, if, if I was,

359

: 00:22:07

if I was like, oh, I've got this problem,

and I hear you can help with that, how

360

: 00:22:10

would a contact point of the shoulder or a

361

: 00:22:13

contact point of the arm, how does, what's

the science that you have around that?

362

: 00:22:16

How does that actually work?

363

: 00:22:17

Mark Wingfield: Okay, probably useful

to take a step backwards actually before

364

: 00:22:22

we get to that talk about how, just so

that a listener can understand there

365

: 00:22:29

is proper science because when we are

traumatized in the first there are things

366

: 00:22:36

called gamma waves that are present all

the time as brain waves, there are lots

367

: 00:22:40

of different types of brain but gamma

wave will be the predominant Brain Wave

368

: 00:22:44

Type at Time of a very, very fast, high

frequency Up to 100 waves per second.

369

: 00:22:53

something awful's happened.

370

: 00:22:54

I need all my resources to do something

about And your brain's going into multi,

371

: 00:23:02

just working very, very hard to try

and When you that Brainwave operating.

372

: 00:23:13

have not only glutamate critical,

part of the equation but because

373

: 00:23:20

there is this gamma wave operating

at per second, very, I'll keep this

374

: 00:23:27

very it causes an oscillation at

that speed calcium, and I won't go

375

: 00:23:38

through all the detail here because

we don't have like to show pictures

376

: 00:23:41

and so on when we're doing it as well.

377

: 00:23:43

But essentially, at that very high

oscillation, there's a number of

378

: 00:23:49

consequences with And, very simply

and crudely put, you have receptors,

379

: 00:23:58

AMPA receptors now go onto the

postsynaptic surface of the neuron.

380

: 00:24:04

within the amygdala, the

emotional center of the brain.

381

: 00:24:07

And these are fixed for life with

a kind of biological superglue.

382

: 00:24:11

Ready to protect you in the future.

383

: 00:24:13

So whatever got you out of that

scrape, whatever you needed to

384

: 00:24:16

do to get out of it, and be safe,

it's now there as pre programmed.

385

: 00:24:22

This is what you do as your if

something like this ever happens again.

386

: 00:24:28

So any triggers that were there at the

time of traumatization, Sounds, sights,

387

: 00:24:32

smells, touch, all these different

things, maybe even colours, shapes.

388

: 00:24:41

bit like a phobia, you see a little

shape running across the floor, you

389

: 00:24:45

think, Oh, a spider, or whatever it

might be, that, that terrifies you.

390

: 00:24:49

You automatically go, shift.

391

: 00:24:51

You don't think about it Your, amygdala

is working for you, just slightly

392

: 00:24:57

faster than the cognitive function.

393

: 00:25:00

I'm making you driving that so

that, that's, that's traumatization.

394

: 00:25:05

What happens the touch that you is

that when you touch in a certain

395

: 00:25:11

way, at certain points on the you

generate something called a delta So

396

: 00:25:16

we talked about gamma waves before,

with this very high frequency, up to

397

: 00:25:20

100 cycles The delta wave is slower.

398

: 00:25:27

It's very soothing, it's pop.

399

: 00:25:29

0.

400

: 00:25:29

4 to up to 5 5 cycles

per second, not the 100.

401

: 00:25:36

Very calming, people I'm sure will

relate to delta waves that you sleep.

402

: 00:25:46

It's not when you were dreaming,

deep sleep where basically re

403

: 00:25:52

sorting the mental filing cabinets.

404

: 00:25:54

We're replenishing, we're recuperating

from the day, and we're getting

405

: 00:25:57

ready for the And interestingly,

delta waves were the predominant

406

: 00:26:02

brain wave when we were children.

407

: 00:26:04

When we're learning, soaking up

all this stuff that's And that

408

: 00:26:08

dropped dramatically after our

So, we are generating delta waves.

409

: 00:26:14

You and I, right now, we're

generating delta waves.

410

: 00:26:16

But not many.

411

: 00:26:18

It'd be very low level.

412

: 00:26:20

However, suddenly if we start, you

can probably hear on the microphone

413

: 00:26:24

I'm stroking my arms, shoulders.

414

: 00:26:27

We suddenly start.

415

: 00:26:29

Generating Kind of artificially,

but we're doing them.

416

: 00:26:33

And it feels nice!

417

: 00:26:37

If you had...

418

: 00:26:39

If you were a little boy...

419

: 00:26:40

And you fell over, Sal, many years ago...

420

: 00:26:42

You might have had a kindly

friend or relative...

421

: 00:26:44

Pick you up, dust you down, go...

422

: 00:26:46

There there, Sal, you'll Just

stroke your arm and shoulder and

423

: 00:26:49

you'll be you very delta waves...

424

: 00:26:54

Which are immediately soothing...

425

: 00:26:56

And...

426

: 00:26:57

Again, crudely put, sending a

signal that everything's okay.

427

: 00:27:00

You're in this safe haven,

name Havening came from.

428

: 00:27:05

The same thing happens, what do

we do when we rub our We feel

429

: 00:27:12

a soothing, calming feeling.

430

: 00:27:15

That's the delta And you're absolutely

right, loads and loads of receptors

431

: 00:27:21

there are some skin type C receptors

that have been found only very recently.

432

: 00:27:25

And that's helped pinpoint

the research areas to go to.

433

: 00:27:29

Another area is the cheeks of the face.

434

: 00:27:31

I'm now stroking the cheeks of my face.

435

: 00:27:32

You can go under the eyes,

you can do the forehead.

436

: 00:27:36

And those three areas are

just, we've known for millennia

437

: 00:27:40

that they are soothing areas.

438

: 00:27:41

So, I'm not going to do it because

I've got my headphones on, but I

439

: 00:27:44

often demonstrate by going, Oh my

goodness, and stroking my face.

440

: 00:27:50

And that's what people do

when they're really stressed.

441

: 00:27:52

Ooh, it's a self soother.

442

: 00:27:55

When we, when we rub our chin like

this, you know, we're considering

443

: 00:27:59

things or maybe not too sure about this.

444

: 00:28:01

It's a self soother.

445

: 00:28:03

There's a reason why we do it.

446

: 00:28:05

It's a natural So not only do you have

this nice soothing feeling, but the touch

447

: 00:28:10

that's, that you're doing is changing the

whole So before I talked about, glutamate

448

: 00:28:19

appearing, well, glutamate's still

there, and calcium, that's still there.

449

: 00:28:23

But because you've got this much other

neurotransmitters, and people will

450

: 00:28:29

recognize words like serotonin they're

just some of people recognize, now come

451

: 00:28:37

to the equation, and again, very crudely

that combination of, that cocktail of

452

: 00:28:44

chemicals, cause a different chain And

this time instead of a super glue being

453

: 00:28:53

applied to receptors that say, Ooh, Ooh,

this happened before you need to do this.

454

: 00:28:59

There's kind of a biological

super glue remover.

455

: 00:29:04

That's takes away glue that

held those receptors together

456

: 00:29:08

so the receptors get recycled.

457

: 00:29:11

And you lose the.

458

: 00:29:14

What could be the way you think about it.

459

: 00:29:17

The way your body reacts, so

autonomically, so you're, you're

460

: 00:29:20

breathing, you're blushing, a stammer

of some kind, maybe, And any other

461

: 00:29:27

somatosensory feelings, so pains, aches,

posture, might be linked you feel about

462

: 00:29:34

something or when something occurs.

463

: 00:29:37

And, and the emotional side.

464

: 00:29:39

So you, you have different

outcomes, which are much more

465

: 00:29:42

pleasant, and much more natural.

466

: 00:29:45

Rather than being, that kind So, that,

that's why the touch is so important.

467

: 00:29:51

And I've done, I've done

demonstrations before now.

468

: 00:29:54

Where, I've had a, on Zoom,

I remember it vividly.

469

: 00:29:57

I did a demonstration for And

there was must have been about

470

: 00:30:03

six ladies in this group.

471

: 00:30:05

And I said, by the way, we're

all going to get a go to try this

472

: 00:30:08

out and feel how soothing it is.

473

: 00:30:10

And just work on a minor worry or anxiety,

nothing, nothing majorly traumatic,

474

: 00:30:15

And you must do the Havening Touch.

475

: 00:30:18

Otherwise it will not work.

476

: 00:30:21

Okay, great.

477

: 00:30:24

We did the exercise and four out of

the six said, Oh, it's brilliant.

478

: 00:30:29

Fantastic, that was really good.

479

: 00:30:31

Terms didn't make any difference to me.

480

: 00:30:33

And I was watching them.

481

: 00:30:34

And I said, well, I did say that you need

to apply Havening Touch all the time.

482

: 00:30:38

You two ladies didn't.

483

: 00:30:40

And as a result, it will not work.

484

: 00:30:43

You can talk about it

until the cows come home.

485

: 00:30:45

Unless you actually apply, it won't work.

486

: 00:30:48

So, I did a demonstration

earlier this week.

487

: 00:30:51

We think about 26 people in all

of them Got relief from whatever

488

: 00:30:58

is they brought and they didn't

have to tell me what it was.

489

: 00:31:00

I just said you must follow, please,

when I ask you to, just the touch and

490

: 00:31:05

follow what I do distractions and so on.

491

: 00:31:09

And, you know, let's see where you are.

492

: 00:31:11

So I asked them for what we call a

subjective unit of distress before.

493

: 00:31:15

So you think about something

distressing right now.

494

: 00:31:18

And then after we've done this, we

only did it for about five What's

495

: 00:31:22

your subjective unit of distress now?

496

: 00:31:24

Put it in the chat.

497

: 00:31:25

And we'll compare it.

498

: 00:31:27

I'm just looking around on my desk

because I did have a piece of paper

499

: 00:31:30

with all the numbers on, but anyway.

500

: 00:31:32

They all went down.

501

: 00:31:33

Some went down from an 8 to a 6,

some went from a 0, some went from

502

: 00:31:37

a 5 to a 4, but they all went down.

503

: 00:31:41

Some things are far more And, but it's

just a lovely thing to be able to do.

504

: 00:31:47

And these people now know

what we call self havening.

505

: 00:31:51

So you can...

506

: 00:31:52

Immediately downregulate if you're worried

about something, whatever it might be,

507

: 00:31:56

because we're working on the amygdala,

the emotional center of the brain.

508

: 00:31:59

Havening is beautiful in that you don't

have to have been severely You can

509

: 00:32:05

use it just to, bit worried about that

exam that's gone out on that night out,

510

: 00:32:11

that horrible boy, I don't just a bit

concerned hope she doesn't drink too

511

: 00:32:19

Whatever it might be, if you're worried

about somebody who's been going through

512

: 00:32:22

COVID it's not very well for some other

so many things you can work on just to

513

: 00:32:29

just one of my practitioners earlier

this they are going quite a horrible

514

: 00:32:40

situation personally that's just happened.

515

: 00:32:44

And they said, we know we can do self

having on her husband trained with me

516

: 00:32:49

as well, we just want to do it with

get rid be able to function at the

517

: 00:32:57

moment know, we're downregulated a

bit ourselves, really be able to cope.

518

: 00:33:06

We're not coping so anyway,

again, I'm rambling now, so.

519

: 00:33:14

Hopefully that gives you a bit

520

: 00:33:15

Sal Jefferies: Yeah,

that's really helpful.

521

: 00:33:16

And I'm just kind of processing

in my mind about that encoding.

522

: 00:33:21

I remember doing work and training around

what's called timeline therapy years ago

523

: 00:33:26

and various things obviously, I

mentioned you, I'm a yoga teacher

524

: 00:33:29

and what I see with a lot of, let's

say, I mean, we use the word trauma.

525

: 00:33:36

I'm just going to sort I mean we've,

we've mentioned there's often two

526

: 00:33:38

types of trauma to loosely put it.

527

: 00:33:40

There's capital T trauma, which could

be something like, you know, extreme

528

: 00:33:43

violence attacks could be, you know, a

horrible accident, something like that.

529

: 00:33:48

And then small t trauma, which is maybe

things like you didn't get seen so much

530

: 00:33:52

by your parents when you were younger

or at school, there was kind of, you

531

: 00:33:56

were not really part of, the group.

532

: 00:33:57

But what happens with small t trauma,

it's more surreptitious, I see.

533

: 00:34:01

It's a, A lot of people, myself

included, didn't really see that

534

: 00:34:05

big a deal, like, well, it wasn't

that bad, but actually there's this

535

: 00:34:08

layering and it's a bit because

it's layered and it keeps happening

536

: 00:34:11

that can affect us in a way as well.

537

: 00:34:13

And I think if we go beyond the word into

the experience that I've got something

538

: 00:34:18

stuck, I'm stuck in a state and I'm

triggered by a certain set of conditions.

539

: 00:34:25

And I would like to be free of that.

540

: 00:34:26

I think is if we take all the names and

perhaps the descriptions, that's how I see

541

: 00:34:31

a lot of this stuckness, you know, whether

it be, you know, the really extreme

542

: 00:34:34

trauma, a subtle trauma, or we just are

over amped, you know, that amygdala is

543

: 00:34:39

firing like crazy.

544

: 00:34:40

Like it's so amplified, it's so reactive

and One thing I've noticed is that a

545

: 00:34:47

lot of people were saying, Oh, there's

a lot of anxiety around right now.

546

: 00:34:49

Well, there was a world changing

pandemic, you know, literally

547

: 00:34:52

destabilizing everything from health

548

: 00:34:54

to money to businesses.

549

: 00:34:56

and there's a knock on

effect to that stuff.

550

: 00:34:58

And sometimes it's post traumatic, trauma.

551

: 00:35:00

Sometimes there's post traumatic growth,

which is another interesting field,

552

: 00:35:03

but either way we wonderful

humans, we are adaption machines.

553

: 00:35:08

We adapt to the environment.

554

: 00:35:09

Whether that's, you know the

environment of the house or the

555

: 00:35:11

business or the world around us and

that adaption may or may not be helpful.

556

: 00:35:15

You know, sometimes it's a

helpful, like a growth adaption

557

: 00:35:18

and sometimes it's more of a

stuck, like fear based adaption.

558

: 00:35:20

And I'm really intrigued how

559

: 00:35:22

Mark Wingfield: Based on what you've

560

: 00:35:23

Sal Jefferies: yeah, what you said there

about how that sort of encodes and like

561

: 00:35:26

how we can sort of let's say, loosen that

encoding and re retrain the system, so to

562

: 00:35:31

speak, which really, really fascinating.

563

: 00:35:35

actually know it.

564

: 00:35:35

This is an area where I'm just more

in the, I'm more in the listener space

565

: 00:35:39

rather than, adding a lot of the content.

566

: 00:35:40

I, I asked you before we started

recording, I'd like to be a client.

567

: 00:35:44

I'd like to experience this on

568

: 00:35:45

a

569

: 00:35:46

simple level and for our listener

if you want to join us and that

570

: 00:35:49

it's safe for you to do so.

571

: 00:35:51

Please do.

572

: 00:35:51

Remember, mind your own boundaries.

573

: 00:35:53

If it isn't, and you just want to kind

of listen in, please do, but I'm going to

574

: 00:35:55

be a client, uh, and Mark, I'd love you

to take me through a very simple, perhaps

575

: 00:35:59

demonstration that I can experience.

576

: 00:36:01

And if, if our listener

wants to join us as

577

: 00:36:02

well, they certainly can come along.

578

: 00:36:04

Would that be okay?

579

: 00:36:06

Mark Wingfield: course, yeah.

580

: 00:36:06

And I'll just re emphasise what

you just said making it safe.

581

: 00:36:13

Please don't work on because this

a minor worry or anxiety, just as I

582

: 00:36:21

relative, that type so what I ask people

to do, and I'll ask you to do this

583

: 00:36:27

some as well, is just concentrate on

how whatever it is that bothers you,

584

: 00:36:32

and you don't have to tell me, how it

makes you if it helps to close your eyes

585

: 00:36:39

and and if there's any feeling in your

body that expresses tightness in the

586

: 00:36:45

throat or the chest just focus on that.

587

: 00:36:50

anything maybe it's a recent

event, if you focus what happened

588

: 00:37:00

pull together the sights, sounds,

589

: 00:37:14

Sal Jefferies: Yes, I've got a

feeling and I, it's kind of for

590

: 00:37:16

me physically, it's happening in

the lower belly, lower abdomen.

591

: 00:37:19

It's activity going on there.

592

: 00:37:21

There's a little bit of.

593

: 00:37:22

activity coming up to my throat area.

594

: 00:37:24

I'm just going to describe the sensations.

595

: 00:37:26

it's, it's, yeah, it's a tightening sense.

596

: 00:37:29

There's a sort of a closing in sense.

597

: 00:37:31

as I

598

: 00:37:31

check back in with this.

599

: 00:37:34

Mark Wingfield: thank you.

600

: 00:37:34

And, on a score of naught to ten,

where ten is really horrendous,

601

: 00:37:38

zero you, where would you put your

602

: 00:37:41

Sal Jefferies: It's about five.

603

: 00:37:42

It's, it's kind of, it's, it's, it's

not nice, but it's, it's not that bad.

604

: 00:37:45

So obviously I've chosen something

which isn't, as you've already,

605

: 00:37:48

carefully guided saying nothing too,

too deep, uh, but yeah, it's kind of,

606

: 00:37:52

it's an uncomfortable situation and

it's, yeah, my body's responding, to

607

: 00:37:56

that

608

: 00:37:58

Mark Wingfield: great,

thanks for doing that.

609

: 00:37:59

And, You choose whichever Havening Touch

you, you prefer, whether it's the, the

610

: 00:38:04

shoulders, the face, the hands, and

just, just start applying that now if

611

: 00:38:09

you would, and just clear your mind, and

I want you to go to your favourite place

612

: 00:38:13

in the world, Sal, where would that be?

613

: 00:38:16

Sal Jefferies: Good question.

614

: 00:38:20

I'll probably make you

615

: 00:38:20

chuckle, but it's often the gym.

616

: 00:38:24

That's quite an animated place.

617

: 00:38:26

In terms of a relaxed place, I'd

probably say by the beach early morning

618

: 00:38:32

when it's really calm and still.

619

: 00:38:34

Mark Wingfield: Okay,

so where, where's the

620

: 00:38:36

Sal Jefferies: It's near

me, yeah, in Brighton.

621

: 00:38:38

Mark Wingfield: Ah, okay, so

it's a pebbly beach, because

622

: 00:38:40

I've been on the rotten beach.

623

: 00:38:42

I want you to imagine that

you're on the beach now.

624

: 00:38:45

And you're walking along and you

hear the crunch of the pebbles, hear

625

: 00:38:49

the waves you look out to the sea,

tell me what you would see on a, on

626

: 00:38:55

a typical morning, let's say it's a

beautiful sunny you're only out there

627

: 00:38:59

Sal Jefferies: yeah.

628

: 00:39:00

It'd be early and, very few people around.

629

: 00:39:03

Maybe tiny bit of cloud in the distance,

a little animated cloud structure.

630

: 00:39:07

a lot of space, a lot of plasterly

light because it's early.

631

: 00:39:12

and

632

: 00:39:12

yeah it's the sound that gentle sound

of the waves just gently lapping.

633

: 00:39:19

Mark Wingfield: and what

kind of smells are there?

634

: 00:39:21

Sal Jefferies: slightly salt air

Got bit of the organic matter

635

: 00:39:26

of the fish perhaps, just a

636

: 00:39:28

small amount.

637

: 00:39:29

But Yeah, there's also a breeze.

638

: 00:39:33

Mark Wingfield: Yeah?

639

: 00:39:33

it's a light breeze on your capture

that as you're walking along, and

640

: 00:39:38

each step that you're taking, hearing

those crunching pebbles, little

641

: 00:39:44

bit getting rid of any tension

that still throat in your belly.

642

: 00:39:58

Just let light lovely thing to looking

out to sea, safe, calmed your mind's eye.

643

: 00:40:53

What can

644

: 00:40:55

Sal Jefferies: Let's see my

645

: 00:40:58

Mark Wingfield: Ah, okay,

what kind of dog have you

646

: 00:40:59

Sal Jefferies: got?

647

: 00:40:59

two.

648

: 00:40:59

I've got a Cocker Spaniel and a

649

: 00:41:01

Pointer.

650

: 00:41:02

Mark Wingfield: Lovely.

651

: 00:41:03

What are their names?

652

: 00:41:04

Sal Jefferies: Chester and Hugo.

653

: 00:41:08

Mark Wingfield: and so

what do Chester and Hugo

654

: 00:41:10

Sal Jefferies: Running around.

655

: 00:41:13

Scampering

656

: 00:41:14

Mark Wingfield: probably

quite a racket on the pebbles.

657

: 00:41:15

Sal Jefferies: not too much.

658

: 00:41:16

Sometimes,

659

: 00:41:17

Mark Wingfield: And do they bark

660

: 00:41:19

Sal Jefferies: yeah.

661

: 00:41:19

Hmm.

662

: 00:41:22

Mark Wingfield: having fun together.

663

: 00:41:23

They play together nicely.

664

: 00:41:28

So today they're playing together

really nicely and, just feel the joy

665

: 00:41:34

of seeing them playing being in that

safe space, feeling really comfortable

666

: 00:41:48

take a little just If you were to

go back to thinking and whatever

667

: 00:42:02

you gave me a five you still at the

668

: 00:42:05

Sal Jefferies: No it

seems like a three now.

669

: 00:42:07

Two, three.

670

: 00:42:08

Yeah, it's definitely a, an easing.

671

: 00:42:10

Yeah, easing

672

: 00:42:10

down.

673

: 00:42:13

Mark Wingfield: And

that was, that was a few

674

: 00:42:14

minutes.

675

: 00:42:15

Sal Jefferies: Hehehe,

676

: 00:42:18

Mark Wingfield: clearly, if we were

doing a one to one, be finding out a lot

677

: 00:42:22

more information about you background

and what we're looking to work on.

678

: 00:42:26

But that's something that I do, which is

very People come on to an intro as I do.

679

: 00:42:33

I do these at It's free of charge.

680

: 00:42:36

People come along and they just

get to experience try things

681

: 00:42:43

out before pre judging, saying

this is just a load of rubbish.

682

: 00:42:46

Well, you can call it a load of rubbish

if it doesn't work for you, but it

683

: 00:42:50

Sal Jefferies: Yeah

684

: 00:42:51

Mark Wingfield: Because it's a natural

biochemical change to our you work with

685

: 00:42:57

a certified practitioner, They how to

reverse the And they've gone a rigorous

686

: 00:43:06

process of learning how to do that.

687

: 00:43:10

So that, you they are in a

good place to help you very

688

: 00:43:15

Sal Jefferies: Yeah, yeah.

689

: 00:43:16

Mark Wingfield: compared to

anything that's some will be.

690

: 00:43:19

Some will be hugely experienced

psychotherapists, some will be,

691

: 00:43:23

great coaches, others will be

oddballs like me a, slightly

692

: 00:43:31

Sal Jefferies: Thank you.

693

: 00:43:31

So, yeah, the listener,

694

: 00:43:32

if you've joined us with that

I hope you're feeling good and

695

: 00:43:36

that your own experience, uh, to

share mine, it was intriguing.

696

: 00:43:39

Just, I was using the outer arm touch,

quite a gentle, I'm wearing a t shirt

697

: 00:43:42

so I could feel my hands on the on

the sort of skin of the upper arm.

698

: 00:43:45

yeah, and there's a, there was a

natural, For me, it felt very embodied.

699

: 00:43:49

I'm lucky because I will perhaps I

do, I am embodied and I have worked

700

: 00:43:53

with people that literally have got

no connection to their body because

701

: 00:43:56

of things like a trauma event.

702

: 00:43:57

So there are, you know, nuances to this,

but my experience, which I think it's

703

: 00:44:01

just important to share was, was, To bring

the visual and the physical together.

704

: 00:44:07

That was my takeaway.

705

: 00:44:08

I really found that helpful and very

useful to have a very visual experience.

706

: 00:44:12

One that you guided nicely and

an elegant way into a happy

707

: 00:44:16

space and to have that feeling.

708

: 00:44:19

as opposed to only using perhaps a

visualization, which was, which of

709

: 00:44:23

course is, you're already explaining

to us that that's the havening process.

710

: 00:44:28

And it kind of made me think

what you mentioned about if I was

711

: 00:44:31

a kid And you know, maybe fell

over and someone picked you up.

712

: 00:44:33

And it's funny, isn't it How we, we, seem

to have lost contact with the humanity,

713

: 00:44:39

the natural state, the things that is

utterly imbued in us as human beings.

714

: 00:44:44

because it's not okay to, you know, touch

someone or, if you, if your family has a

715

: 00:44:49

Victorian line, you might've got a pat on

the head or something like They're there,

716

: 00:44:53

you know, that natural, physical touch

between human to human or from yourself.

717

: 00:44:58

and the

718

: 00:44:58

impact that your encoding system

does, whether that's positive

719

: 00:45:02

or negative, it's fascinating.

720

: 00:45:04

So thank you for

721

: 00:45:05

taking us through that that exercise.

722

: 00:45:07

I feel very calm and very chilled now.

723

: 00:45:09

It's lovely.

724

: 00:45:10

Mark Wingfield: Good.

725

: 00:45:11

I'd just like to throw in, if I

may, just to add to that, that some

726

: 00:45:14

people do struggle with visual And

we've got other ways of doing it.

727

: 00:45:18

So if people are thinking, well that

didn't work can't do visual People

728

: 00:45:24

tend to be in the minority But we

just access it in different ways

729

: 00:45:28

and we do different distractions.

730

: 00:45:31

distractions are only one I've taken you

through it again, that's Event Havening.

731

: 00:45:35

That I've just done.

732

: 00:45:38

listening, simply use self but

there are so many, there are

733

: 00:45:43

ten different types of train.

734

: 00:45:47

event is just the easiest,

we always start there,

735

: 00:45:51

Sal Jefferies: yeah,

lovely, really lovely.

736

: 00:45:53

Well, we started off the show kind

of saying about how we can touch

737

: 00:45:57

on some of the difficult stuff that

happens to people in life, you know,

738

: 00:46:00

from anxiety to anguish to trauma.

739

: 00:46:02

and these are big fields and I don't know,

Mark, you've, you've been very sensitive.

740

: 00:46:06

I too, we just want to echo the.

741

: 00:46:09

Sometimes life is tough and bad

things happen and that's really hard.

742

: 00:46:12

So I guess the, the sentiment here

is there are different practices.

743

: 00:46:16

There are different processes where you

can reach out to, you can find out about

744

: 00:46:20

and Havening being one of them as a way to

Heal, to grow, to, grow, beyond the pain.

745

: 00:46:26

I heard a lovely phrase once and I'm

afraid I can't say it's author because

746

: 00:46:30

I can't remember, but they said,

you know, really good growth work,

747

: 00:46:33

whether it's therapeutic coaching,

it doesn't matter, is to grow far

748

: 00:46:37

bigger than the problem ever was.

749

: 00:46:39

And love that.

750

: 00:46:40

That's a really powerful statement.

751

: 00:46:42

And so I I hope, dear listeners, that

if you've got a challenge, if you've got

752

: 00:46:47

some, some stuff that's stuck, that this

gives you an opening to start reaching

753

: 00:46:52

out, whichever way you want to reach out.

754

: 00:46:54

This is one way.

755

: 00:46:55

Uh, but of course we'll leave details

for Mark's, contact about Havening

756

: 00:46:59

and, and how you can learn more,

uh, in the show notes, of course.

757

: 00:47:01

So people can reach out

to you directly and learn.

758

: 00:47:04

Um, that'll be really interesting.

759

: 00:47:06

Wow.

760

: 00:47:07

So I've learned myself.

761

: 00:47:08

I was quiet on this episode.

762

: 00:47:09

Normally I'm quite a conversationist

as part of our, of the podcast.

763

: 00:47:13

Uh, but today I was kind of sitting

back and just taking on board this,

764

: 00:47:16

this process, which I don't know about.

765

: 00:47:17

And I'm, and I'm really,

you know, I'm very lucky.

766

: 00:47:19

I've learned something today.

767

: 00:47:20

I always love learning.

768

: 00:47:21

So thank you, Mark, for sharing

your experience, your history

769

: 00:47:25

you've come to this process.

770

: 00:47:26

Um, and it's wonderful.

771

: 00:47:28

It sounds a really lovely process

that can be applied at different

772

: 00:47:32

levels of intensity for different

practitioners, both self, Okay.

773

: 00:47:35

and professional.

774

: 00:47:35

So it's lovely to learn about that

and I really thank you for your time.

775

: 00:47:40

So dear listener, I trust, as

always, that you've gleaned and taken

776

: 00:47:44

something from that that's going to be

helpful for you and take it further.

777

: 00:47:48

Whatever you need, take it further

and, and hope you heal and hope you

778

: 00:47:52

have a flourishing rest of your day.

779

: 00:47:55

Mark, thank you, dear listener, thank you.

780

: 00:47:57

I'll speak to

781

: 00:47:57

you on the next one.

782

: 00:47:58

Mark Wingfield: Thanks, Sal.

783

: 00:48:01

Sal Jefferies: Thank you

so much for listening.

784

: 00:48:03

If you enjoyed the episode,

please subscribe and if a friend

785

: 00:48:07

would benefit from hearing this,

do send it on to them as well.

786

: 00:48:11

If you would like to get in touch

yourself, then you can go to my website,

787

: 00:48:14

which is sal jeffries.com, spelled S

A L J E F E R I E s sal jeffries.com.

788

: 00:48:23

Hit the get in touch link and there

you can send me a direct message.

789

: 00:48:28

If you'd like to go one step further

and learn whether coaching could help

790

: 00:48:30

you overcome a challenge or a block

in your life, then do reach out and

791

: 00:48:35

I offer a call where we can discuss

how this may be able to help you.

792

: 00:48:39

Until the next time, take care.