How to find success leading to fulfilment (rather than disappointment) in life & business with Marc Convey

Sal Jefferies: 00:00:03

Welcome to Mindset, Mood and Movement, a systemic approach to human

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behavior, performance, and well being.

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Our psychological, emotional, and

physical health are all connected,

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and my guests and I endeavor to share

knowledge, strategies, and tools for

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you to enrich your life and work.

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Hello and welcome.

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Today's episode is a juicy one.

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I've got a guest with me, Mark McConvey,

who I'm going to introduce in more

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depth shortly, but we are going into

talk and Unpack how finding success

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that leads to fulfillment rather

than disappointment is absolutely

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crucial in life and in business.

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Now, Mark has a huge experience in life

and business and a lot to share and I'll

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be part of that conversation as well.

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So we hope to take you on a journey

that will really take you on a

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pathway of clarity and overcoming

some of the misunderstandings,

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misinterpretations around what success

is and that way to fulfill them.

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Mark, welcome.

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Marc Convey: Thank you for having

me Sal, what a lovely introduction.

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I'm really, really looking forward

to unpacking some of the things

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that you just, talked about.

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Sal Jefferies: Fantastic.

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Mark, success, fulfillment, these

are words, they're adjectives,

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and they take us in places,

sometimes to different things.

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May I ask, what would your

definition of success be?

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Marc Convey: Wow, that's a, that's a

big question to straight off the bat.

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I like it.

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You put me on the spot.

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success for me, I've come to learn is, is

what makes you feel content on the inside.

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You know, for me, it's, it's all about.

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internal validation.

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And, but you, but I think, you know, one

needs to, to make sure that they've got a

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level of consciousness within them to, to,

to understand what actually that means.

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and, you know, I love being.

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Best friend with the voice inside my

own head, and if I can get to a place,

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you know, of that peace of mind, then,

then I know everything that's going

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on around me externally is either

adding to my life or, or not taking

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away from, from that contentment.

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Sal Jefferies: Yeah, that's a,

that's a lovely description.

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I, my definition of success today

is a very different definition of

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success when I was in my 30s and

in my 20s and of course as a child.

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And it's been an evolving thing, so

I, my definition of success feels like

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it's a constantly evolving process.

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But as I get more mature in life...

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it seems to me that it's about feeling.

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So rather than the external metric,

and there's a place for that.

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It might be a number that you need to

earn for your business or your income.

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And there's, there's a place for that.

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But if it isn't connected to a feeling

that is authentic and wanted and healthy

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and rich, then that external metric

or thing that you might be chasing

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can be a road to the wrong place.

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So that's my, my definition.

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Mark, I kind of want to start where

you're at, I know your story a

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little bit, but for our listener.

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You've been on a bit of a journey

in the last couple of years with

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huge change and all around your

work and your business and yourself.

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Maybe you could share a little more

about where you've been in the last

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couple of years and how that is.

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Marc Convey: Yeah, so, I moved down

Brighton at the beginning of: 2017

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to launch a video production company.

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Which I ran until the beginning of

last year and I got to a point where

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I didn't feel aligned with the values

of the company or I didn't feel that I

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could be living my true self while also

running a video production company.

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And I think I'd fallen into the trap

of chasing some of those external

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things and those hard things that

we're talking about and trying to

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all about revenue and profit margins.

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So I decided after a lot of thinking

over the down, downtime over, over the

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Christmas of 2000, whenever it was 2021,

that, I needed to just jump from, from the

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train in between stations with no plan and

trust that the universe and me within it

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could figure out where I was going to go.

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So I did that and been on a

bit of a, I guess, a spiritual

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journey for the last 18 months.

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that took me via going on a year

long journey with another startup.

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called Thrive Now, and it

was very, very purpose led.

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It was really about, inside out way

of thinking, and helping business

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leaders, and trying to create a ripple

effect, you know, that would spread

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out into the world and do more good.

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But again, I realised that I'd got

to the point that it was so much

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about other people, and really, the,

the, the power of my story and my

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understanding was, was all I needed to...

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To, to one, feel fulfilled in what

I was doing and to use that from

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a now very, very stable place to

be able to, to, to help people.

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And it just so happens that I

really like helping people as well.

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So I'm, first and foremost,

I'm, I'm doing this for myself.

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You know, I'm, I'm taking

myself to the world.

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I'm trying to brand myself, sharing my

story so that I can help other people.

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You know, understand their own stories

and, and not fear them so much and, and

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yeah, it's, it's, it's led me to a, a

place where my life is in, is in great

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balance at the moment, you know, I still

need to, to monetize what I'm doing, so I

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still need to put in those, those things

that we talk about, so that I know that I

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can sustain this, but yeah, I don't think

I've ever felt better about what I'm about

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to do, and it feels authentically me.

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Sal Jefferies: That's amazing.

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That's such, such a powerful thing.

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And I resonate with so much you're

saying there about being in an agency.

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I going back a long way, I

was in an ad agency, this back

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sort of early, early part of my

career and thinking, this is it.

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This is the cool thing to do.

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And, and.

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And really getting caught in that trap,

you know, the, the, the, the trap of

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metrics, like earn more money, back at

the time I had a really nice car and it

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was all about this kind of more, more,

more, and of course the advertising world

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is, is, is very much about that to a

large degree, certainly when I was there.

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And, you know, when you sort of think...

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What am I doing this for?

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At some point, for many, many years,

I didn't think about that question.

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Like, what am I doing?

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And I think at different junctions of

your life, your twenties, thirties,

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forties, and so on, you think differently.

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So there are places for that.

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But there's something really

powerful, isn't there?

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When you check in with your own

internal, for me, it's, I call

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it a compass as a metaphor.

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That compass that says, where am I going?

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What, what am I doing?

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Why am I getting up in the

morning and doing something?

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Does it, does it resonate on a deep

level or is it putting some numbers

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in an account, which is arbitrary?

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Now, would it be okay?

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Cause I know your story personally and for

our listener, Mark's got a really powerful

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story, which of course I know you're

working, but in our, in our conversation

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today, maybe you could take us a little

more into your, your own story about

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how you've really kind of found so much.

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of coming through adversity.

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Marc Convey: Yeah.

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Do we want to, do we want to

dial it right back to the kind of

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the origins of where it started?

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Sal Jefferies: If you're happy to, it

will be, I know it's a powerful story.

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So just a kind of note for

the listener, Mark's story

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involves being in an accident.

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he's, you know, he's overcome

many, many things, but it's, it's

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a raw story, but it's so powerful.

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I'd love to hear more of it, please, Mark.

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Marc Convey: Yeah, absolutely.

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No problem whatsoever.

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You know, just to, to, look, a footnote

to that is that, you know, I've gotten

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to myself a place in life where I'm

really happy to, to share my story and

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know that it's not going to impact me.

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And I think that's really important,

for your listeners to, to understand.

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And it's something I'm

quite passionate about.

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We all can have very powerful stories

to tell, especially we've gone through

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traumas, but you've got to make sure

that if you are sharing it, that it's in

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no way going to impact your own mental

health, because it needs to, it needs

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to, you need to make sure that you're in

a good position to share it, even though

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you feel like you can help other people.

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If it's harming you, then

you shouldn't be doing it.

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So this is why it's taken me over 30

years, I think, to be able to be ready.

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to share my story.

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Not that I've been traumatized for 30

years, by the way, it's it's just that...

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Yeah, I was out there living life.

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But anyway, I digress.

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yeah, I was, burned very

badly when I was 14 years old.

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just a, a silly accident, you know,

the kind of cliched kids playing

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around with matches too close to

some petrol that went up in a garage.

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I was on holiday.

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in Ireland at the time and, somehow

managed to escape a burning garage and,

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was taken to a local hospital in the

west of Ireland where they stabilised

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me and then I was taken to Dublin, via

ambulance because there was no helicopters

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running at night time that day, a flat

line twice on the way, managed to come

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through that, was in an induced coma

in Dublin, Dublin, they accidentally

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administered, penicillin to me, which

I'm allergic to, so when I came out of

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the coma, I had to go back into a coma.

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and then it just started, once I was

stabilized and fought off, you know,

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multiple organs threatening to fail on me

and my eyesight was managed to get saved.

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It was a long, long,

long road to recovery.

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30 plus operations over two and a half

years, other challenges as well, like

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having to be able to learn to write with

my left hand because my right hand was so

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damaged and it was extremely important for

me to, to stay, with my school year and

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not drop back a year mentally for me, that

was a huge driving force in my recovery

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and gave me massive amounts of motivation.

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But I was extremely fortunate as

well that I had the most incredible

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family and community around me.

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so I was never, I was never isolated,

you know, with, with, with my trauma.

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And, you know, I had to wear a Perspex

mask for two years, 24 hours a day.

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So I had to deal with that.

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yeah, going back to school,

managed to get my...

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GCSEs, just the five GCSEs I needed

to do A levels, which was huge for me.

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but yeah, going back to school, I think

was, was the hardest day of my life.

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You know, reintegrating into a

very masculine, sporty, all boys

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school was, was really difficult,

but you know, I overcame it.

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And then probably the proudest

day of my life was deciding

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to leave that environment.

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So after I did my GCSEs, I realized that

I was wrapped up in cotton wool too much.

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And I decided that I, if I was ever going

to be able to make it to university, I

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needed to be able to, to, to integrate

more into society and not be in this

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environment where I was untouchable.

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So I left and went to a mixed sixth form

college, local, still wearing the mask

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and, and then managed to overcome that.

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And that gave me huge amounts of, huge

amounts of confidence to be able to know

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that I could make the step and get my

full independence back and, you know,

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leave home at 19 and go to university.

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So that kind of wraps up that,

that five year journey that I

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had from, from the age of 14.

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Sal Jefferies: Wow.

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That's a powerful story.

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And thank you for sharing.

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And isn't it?

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Gosh, I mean, there's so much

to kind of say about that.

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And I don't want to say too much.

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I think you've said enough.

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I've just really resonated with how

difficult that must be at such a young

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age, all of the layers, the physical,

the health, the social, the growing age.

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And absolutely amazing.

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As I, as I know you now, what

a vibrant human being you are.

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You're, you're, you do so many things.

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I'm really interested, like how your.

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How that may have shaped your worldview

and your perception around success

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and what, what that young Mark then

went on to do, how he kind of met the

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world and, and dealt with challenges,

you know, because you've been through

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a huge, huge challenge and you

obviously will continue to go through

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as you were healing over a long time.

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What would you say helped or what

kind of perception was shaped by

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that, by that, by that tragedy

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Marc Convey: Yeah, so it's a, yeah,

massively valid points you make there.

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And.

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So much, so much was, started or shaped,

in those moments, you know, in terms

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of just my own recovery, realizing that

I needed to lead the way, you know,

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I really wanted to be in control of

decisions that were being made about me.

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And at 14, there's an assumption,

especially back in the early 90s, that.

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You know, kids do as they're, you know,

as they're told, and there were too many

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conversations going on that I wasn't

a part of, and I wasn't having that.

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And it was also, you know, with my mum

being my primary carer, I thought as

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well as me taking control and feeling

better about it, I could take some

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of the responsibility of her, of her.

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You know, I've talked about this

before, that as soon as I became...

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CEO of my own, my own company,

my own recovery and you know,

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my lieutenant was, was my mum.

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So I think my own personal leadership

journey started at that point.

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And now you, you know, you, you

touched on the fact that the, you

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know, the growing and, different

things at that stage in my life.

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And on one hand, it's, it's

horrific, you know, just on the,

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on the cusp of puberty that.

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this would happen to me, but as well

as my body growing, you know, my mind

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was still developing and, you know,

in some ways I feel blessed that it

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didn't, it happened to me then and not

at 18 or 21 when so much of my being

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was, would have already been developed.

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So I was still able to create the, the,

the building blocks of my character

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that would become the I am because I was

still developing as, as, as a person and

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Some of the other things that we touched

on as well is in terms of seeking a

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bright future and hearing a lot of the

narrative that were going on around me

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and well meaning therapists and adults.

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Talking about me in a very general

way, and I was just like, that's just

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not how I'm feeling on the inside, and

it's like, I don't know what you, what

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you're talking about, you know, my mum

tells a really funny story of waiting

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outside my room in a hospital one day,

you know, And a therapist about 10 or

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15 minutes after being in to talk to

me, just walking out, shaking her head,

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going, My word, that boy could give

me therapy, and just walked out, never

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seen anything like it, shaking her head.

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Because she was sat there, and it was

like she was, you know, spouting from her

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textbook or some learnings, and, Well,

you must be feeling this, and you must

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be feeling that, and I'm like, Nope.

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I'm not, I know maybe I should be and

whatever, but I'm not, and I'm not gonna

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let you put those things in my head.

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I'm really sorry, but if you're gonna

sit down and you're gonna tell me how I'm

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feeling, because you've, you've learnt

this in some, you know, westernised,

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you know, funded, you know, course that

you've been on, that's just not who I am.

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So I used to just chase them out

the room if they were just trying

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to get me to think a certain way.

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You know, my therapists were my family,

my physiotherapist, nurse, people that

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inspired me, people that talked about

the human condition in a different

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way that wasn't from a textbook.

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And I, in the early days, I got

so much confidence and growth for

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that that, you know, I just thought

I can forge my own path here.

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And there were other conversations

going on around that.

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To me, he didn't, didn't really

paint a bright future, and I wasn't

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gonna, I wasn't gonna have that.

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You know, I said to my mum recently

that, I said I remember her having a

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conversation about how disappointed

she was when she heard that, that,

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that the burns on my face were

so deep that my, hair follicles,

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were never gonna come back.

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Because in her mind, she thought,

oh, you know what, when he

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grows up, he can grow a beard.

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And...

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And he can hide his scars, and I was,

and I was already beyond that point,

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and I kind of shocked her a bit, and

I said, look, I don't judge you, it's

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just the way it was, but I was already

facing up to things quicker than a lot

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of the people around me, and, and as I

said, you know, before that happening

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at such a young, at such a formative

age, I and I feel so privileged because

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it's enabled me to create this strength

of character, where I could ignore so

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many external forces and know that I

could rely on what was inside of me.

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But a key point to make is that

it was still incredible to have

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all those people around me.

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So I could be my own person, but

knowing that I wasn't isolated and I

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wasn't alone and that there were going

to be setbacks and I did need people

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to pick me up, but they just didn't

need to tell me how I needed to think.

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They just needed to be

there for me and support me.

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Sal Jefferies: Wow.

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Wow.

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: 00:17:00

I'm just, my nervousness has just had

a massive response from my skin as I've

289

: 00:17:03

listened to everything you've said there.

290

: 00:17:04

Just this kind of, wow.

291

: 00:17:06

I'm absolutely intrigued.

292

: 00:17:08

It's, you touch on such a good point

about, you mentioned a therapist, but it

293

: 00:17:12

seems in life other people can lay or,

impose their views or their ideas on us.

294

: 00:17:17

And clearly it was happening

to you at that time.

295

: 00:17:19

And, so fascinating to hear a real

story of someone who'd gone through

296

: 00:17:23

a trauma, had real, you know, had

burns, had all these things that are

297

: 00:17:26

working through and healing from.

298

: 00:17:27

Yeah.

299

: 00:17:28

To have the strength of mind to go,

No, I don't actually feel that way.

300

: 00:17:31

And to challenge the, the, the, the labels

or the terms that people put on you.

301

: 00:17:37

And I think this is such a radical

and powerful part of your story,

302

: 00:17:40

is to, for people to know, it's

like, Know, know your own mind.

303

: 00:17:44

Don't let others tell you what you feel.

304

: 00:17:46

Know what you feel.

305

: 00:17:47

And you've, you've, you've, your story's

so powerful, it really pushes that.

306

: 00:17:51

I'm also absolutely intrigued

about the environment.

307

: 00:17:54

As you've said, you had the right.

308

: 00:17:56

kind of team, the right caregivers

around you to help you and nourish you.

309

: 00:17:59

And, and that's as important, you

know, it's kind of, I guess, social

310

: 00:18:03

epigenetics, epigenetics is how genes

express space in the environment.

311

: 00:18:06

And if people around us are

helping us heal and challenging

312

: 00:18:09

us, but holding us and keeping that

space, that's a really vital part.

313

: 00:18:13

and I wonder when we think about, you

know, success in any nature, whether it's

314

: 00:18:17

as a human being, as a business person,

as a sports person, whatever it be.

315

: 00:18:22

Understand that we do

need that environment.

316

: 00:18:24

We do need the right kind of people

around us and it may not be that many,

317

: 00:18:27

but we need that as well as, as well as

the voice inside to absolutely hear that.

318

: 00:18:32

Now, the voice inside intrigues

me, Mark, and I know you and I

319

: 00:18:35

have spoken a little about this.

320

: 00:18:37

. I used to have a voice inside that wasn't

very nice, and, and that old voice sneaks

321

: 00:18:42

up sometimes and gives me a really hard

time and tell me just how rubbish I

322

: 00:18:46

really am and, and all this sort of stuff.

323

: 00:18:48

And, and I've done a lot of therapy

work on it, and I've really gone

324

: 00:18:51

into, and most of the time that

voice is, it's normally on side.

325

: 00:18:55

It's normally a kind, kinder voice,

but it kind of can sort of segue

326

: 00:18:58

back into being a, a, a militant

commander, a dictator I call it now.

327

: 00:19:03

For those of us who listen to our inner

narrative, and most of us do, could

328

: 00:19:08

you say a little more about how you've

managed to, that voice in your head, both

329

: 00:19:11

from perhaps the earlier days and the

present day, how you've made a healthy

330

: 00:19:17

relationship to that voice in your head?

331

: 00:19:18

Because I wonder if the voice in our

head isn't actually one of the biggest

332

: 00:19:23

blocks that we need to overcome or to

transition to live in a fulfilled way.

333

: 00:19:28

Marc Convey: Yeah, I think, I don't

know, I can't remember the actual

334

: 00:19:31

stat, but I think 70% of the, the

things, the narrative that goes

335

: 00:19:35

through our head is not true.

336

: 00:19:37

So, you know, our, the voice inside our

head is often trying to sabotage us.

337

: 00:19:43

And, if we, if we talk about

the present state, the present

338

: 00:19:46

day, the, you know, the...

339

: 00:19:49

the bit of the, I mean, it's such

a loaded term, spiritual, you know,

340

: 00:19:53

journey and whatever you want to

call it, mindfulness, spiritual

341

: 00:19:57

journey, just understanding oneself.

342

: 00:19:59

But the, whatever I've done in the

last 18 months and whatever you

343

: 00:20:03

want to call it, you know, it's up

to you, is, is understanding that.

344

: 00:20:09

You're never going to be

able to, to get rid of it.

345

: 00:20:11

It's always going to be there.

346

: 00:20:13

And for me, meditations really helped

that in the last 18 months, you know,

347

: 00:20:18

I used to think that meditation was all

about going in and completely shutting

348

: 00:20:23

it out and getting into his place

with it, where there's no thoughts,

349

: 00:20:26

but something that's, that's really.

350

: 00:20:29

come to me recently is

it's not about that.

351

: 00:20:33

for me, meditation is understanding

that these voices are going to,

352

: 00:20:37

are going to come into my head,

but when they come into my head,

353

: 00:20:40

I understand that they're in play.

354

: 00:20:42

And if I understand that they're in play

and I can then have control over that,

355

: 00:20:48

I can then tell them to bugger off.

356

: 00:20:50

So I, through that practice of

meditation, I have then been able

357

: 00:20:56

to apply that to my own life.

358

: 00:20:59

So, I know I've got an ego.

359

: 00:21:01

I know that there are

personas coming into play.

360

: 00:21:05

But what's different to before is that

I now understand when they are in play.

361

: 00:21:09

And if they are in play, then

I have a decision to make.

362

: 00:21:15

Do I allow that to be

compounded and let my ego drive?

363

: 00:21:21

forward my actions and, and

my next thoughts, or, or

364

: 00:21:25

do I tell it to bugger off?

365

: 00:21:27

And it's the same with, you know,

imposter syndrome and, and all,

366

: 00:21:31

all these different, different

things that we have to deal with

367

: 00:21:33

in, in, in our modern day life.

368

: 00:21:35

And for example, it's, I love now going

into, I used to be so competitive.

369

: 00:21:43

And I'm so glad that I am, because

it's that competitiveness that

370

: 00:21:46

probably helped me survive, and that

competitiveness that made me prove

371

: 00:21:50

people wrong for so many years.

372

: 00:21:52

But now I love going into a conversation

with no interest in being right.

373

: 00:21:58

And now that can make you build even

deeper connections with other people.

374

: 00:22:04

I just love that.

375

: 00:22:05

Because so often before, you go in to

discuss a subject and debate a subject,

376

: 00:22:11

And then before you know it, your ego's

in play, and it's more important that

377

: 00:22:16

you prove that other person right.

378

: 00:22:18

To be free from that is, it just,

suddenly you've got so much more control

379

: 00:22:24

over that voice inside your head.

380

: 00:22:28

Taking it back a bit further, yeah.

381

: 00:22:32

I don't know, I don't

know how, how much...

382

: 00:22:36

I was faking it until I make made it.

383

: 00:22:39

I don't know.

384

: 00:22:40

That's something I'm, I'm

really exploring at the moment.

385

: 00:22:42

You know, I've started to, to

write the book about my journey

386

: 00:22:45

and I'm going to want to become

a, you know, motivational speaker.

387

: 00:22:49

So that's something that I'm, I'm

exploring myself at the moment.

388

: 00:22:53

and I had a really

interesting conversation with.

389

: 00:22:56

a first cousin of mine.

390

: 00:22:58

So I did a bit of a journey around

back to Ireland a few weeks ago in my

391

: 00:23:02

camper van because I wanted to have

discussions with key stakeholders who

392

: 00:23:07

were either there on the night of Max

and then, you know, part of my recovery.

393

: 00:23:11

because when we suffer trauma, we

don't suffer trauma in isolation.

394

: 00:23:15

And what happened to me was the

biggest thing in, in all of our lives.

395

: 00:23:19

You know, my cousin said to me, you know,

Mark, there was life before your accident

396

: 00:23:23

and there was life after your accident

and it changed everybody's lives and

397

: 00:23:28

their perspective on life and all that.

398

: 00:23:31

So for me, before, part of the, I want to

create this ripple effect of positivity

399

: 00:23:37

and the first little wave around me is my

friends and family that were there for me.

400

: 00:23:43

So I wanted to pay respect to them

and go to Ireland and say, I'm now in

401

: 00:23:48

a place where I feel like I'm fully

healed, and I want to now use my story

402

: 00:23:54

for the good of others, but I want to

make sure that you're all okay first,

403

: 00:23:58

and got all their blessings, and had

incredibly deep discussions, but going

404

: 00:24:02

back to my cousin, he said to me that,

He was worried that, because I've got

405

: 00:24:07

this really big personality and quite

gregarious, and that was in me beforehand,

406

: 00:24:13

which was a massive asset for me to have,

to be able to have a sense of humor,

407

: 00:24:17

even in the darkest of times, was huge.

408

: 00:24:19

So I think I've flooded my brain a

lot with humor and with jokes, and

409

: 00:24:25

a lot of that is about deflection,

right, and putting walls up.

410

: 00:24:30

And he, and he, and he was worried

that that was the only way that.

411

: 00:24:34

That I was coping with

what I went through.

412

: 00:24:36

And he showed me a video, video of,

Patrick Kilty, the Northern Ireland

413

: 00:24:41

comedian, and he was on a, a panel

show, and he's done documentaries

414

: 00:24:44

about the trauma he's been through.

415

: 00:24:47

and what he did was he, he makes

humor, his, his wall, his barrier

416

: 00:24:51

to stop people getting close.

417

: 00:24:53

And Colin, you know, my cousin, was, was,

was worried that I was doing that, and

418

: 00:24:58

then he could see through our quite deep

discussions that I assured him it wasn't,

419

: 00:25:02

but now that I've come away from that

conversation a month later, I think he, I

420

: 00:25:07

don't think it's either or, I think it's a

mixture of both, I think I was lucky that

421

: 00:25:14

I had this very, very strong will and a

strong mind that I inherited, you know,

422

: 00:25:19

from my parents, but that wasn't enough

To, to play all the part that it needed

423

: 00:25:26

to play in, in, in my recovery and growth.

424

: 00:25:28

So I actually think that there's,

there's a lot of value and astute

425

: 00:25:32

observation that my cousin made.

426

: 00:25:35

That, that, yeah, I did use my humor

and protect myself and played various

427

: 00:25:43

personas while I was healing myself.

428

: 00:25:46

But it wasn't, none of it

was all one or, or the other.

429

: 00:25:49

Now I'm right to the point where,

I'm really zen and grounded, and now

430

: 00:25:56

it's why, why I'm in a, in a position

where I'm not faking anything.

431

: 00:26:00

It's the, the authentic me, but I

think it's been a dull that's been

432

: 00:26:03

moving over, but from probably from the

middle point over the last 30 years.

433

: 00:26:08

I hope that makes

434

: 00:26:09

Sal Jefferies: Yeah, it

does make a lot of sense.

435

: 00:26:10

And so many pieces of what

you've explained there are...

436

: 00:26:14

Intriguing on many levels.

437

: 00:26:16

I mean, firstly, when you hear, when you

say about, humor, I've had experience

438

: 00:26:19

of that when I did my psychotherapeutic

training by my, my mentor and trainer, Pam

439

: 00:26:23

would always say that the darkest thing,

sometimes you got to bring humor to it.

440

: 00:26:27

It's not wrong.

441

: 00:26:28

You're not making a joke of anything

bad, but you're bringing that balance.

442

: 00:26:31

You know, something like tragedy

or, you know, a fire or burn.

443

: 00:26:35

And there's humor.

444

: 00:26:36

It's this almost contradictory balancing

force, which is quite natural to do.

445

: 00:26:41

So I think it's, it's

instinctive in human.

446

: 00:26:43

If you, if you take away all

the preconceived shoulds or

447

: 00:26:46

shouldn'ts, it's instinctive.

448

: 00:26:48

I know some people, used

to know some firemen.

449

: 00:26:50

They'd see some dark stuff and...

450

: 00:26:52

You go out to road traffic accidents

and things, and they'd make

451

: 00:26:54

light of it, and you'd be like...

452

: 00:26:56

And they'd explain, they weren't being

disrespectful, it's the way they could

453

: 00:26:59

handle it, it was, it needed such balance,

so I think that's, that's important.

454

: 00:27:03

That's one thing I learnt

about why humour...

455

: 00:27:05

and difficulty or extreme

things can go together.

456

: 00:27:08

You know, for you, of course, it's,

you're entitled to, it's your, your

457

: 00:27:11

trauma, your experience, and you're

entitled to do what you want with it.

458

: 00:27:15

But that's sometimes why it seems

humor in those dark times is absolutely

459

: 00:27:18

needed as a, as a human system.

460

: 00:27:21

I was really interested about the wall

you said, and something came up in my

461

: 00:27:24

world recently about, my own blocks.

462

: 00:27:26

And I see this with people I work with.

463

: 00:27:28

And to keep the story personal to

me, my blocks are often like a wall.

464

: 00:27:34

So if I have my mind gets into

a block state, like I start

465

: 00:27:37

feeling, it's a wall of thoughts.

466

: 00:27:39

Now many years ago I went to,

I saw an exhibition by, Damien

467

: 00:27:42

Hirst and he did this piece of

work which you saw it from afar.

468

: 00:27:45

It was a huge piece of work on the

wall and you thought, Oh, what's that?

469

: 00:27:47

And you had to walk towards it.

470

: 00:27:49

I was actually in New York at the time.

471

: 00:27:50

I was walking towards it and you

got closer and closer and within

472

: 00:27:53

half a meter you realize it was just

Billions of blue bottle flies dead

473

: 00:27:58

stuck to the, and it was just like,

Oh my God, it's just so powerful as a

474

: 00:28:02

piece of work because it drew you in.

475

: 00:28:04

And I was sort of checked back in with

when I've had my own blocks mentally.

476

: 00:28:08

And those walls of thoughts that come

up and they're sort of like all these

477

: 00:28:12

points of disagreement or fear or worry,

or no, don't do this, or that'll go

478

: 00:28:17

wrong or whatever those narratives are.

479

: 00:28:19

Just all kind of overlaying

voices as a wall.

480

: 00:28:23

And of course, the important thing is

to ask one's mind, why is it doing this?

481

: 00:28:28

Rather than it's wrong or it's bad.

482

: 00:28:30

For me, I ask my own mind,

like, so what's the purpose of

483

: 00:28:32

this negative wall of thought?

484

: 00:28:34

What's it trying to do?

485

: 00:28:35

And invariably, one way or the

other, it's the same thing.

486

: 00:28:38

It's trying to keep me safe.

487

: 00:28:41

Always.

488

: 00:28:42

It's trying to keep you safe.

489

: 00:28:44

The problem being is that

it's sometimes built on

490

: 00:28:46

misunderstanding and misapprehension

about, well, what is safety?

491

: 00:28:49

You know, not taking a chance of

growing your business or speaking to

492

: 00:28:52

someone on a podcast or, or whatever

it is that you might feel is a risk.

493

: 00:28:57

And we have this inbuilt safety

system, but of course it's

494

: 00:29:00

filtered by what people tell us.

495

: 00:29:02

Culture.

496

: 00:29:03

Don't do this.

497

: 00:29:04

Don't do that.

498

: 00:29:05

And listening to one's, I guess,

quieter inner voice, that more

499

: 00:29:09

intelligent state, which you

alluded to coming from meditation.

500

: 00:29:12

To me sounds more powerful and it's

something I do quite similar about

501

: 00:29:16

meditation and internal check ins.

502

: 00:29:18

But that's such a big thing when we

think about what is success in a life?

503

: 00:29:22

Whatever that looks like for you.

504

: 00:29:24

Money, health, fitness,

happiness, whatever it is.

505

: 00:29:26

But what is the fulfillment?

506

: 00:29:28

Is it on your terms or

is it on someone else's?

507

: 00:29:31

And if it's on someone else's terms...

508

: 00:29:33

you better check the T's and C's because

that contract may not be right for you.

509

: 00:29:38

So cool.

510

: 00:29:40

I'd like to go a little bit more into how

you've been applying these understandings,

511

: 00:29:45

both from your early story, and you

know, you've done so many different

512

: 00:29:48

things, but how have you brought it

to be to get this authenticity to make

513

: 00:29:52

decisions like leave your video agency,

which I understand was pretty successful

514

: 00:29:57

at the time, and to then go on to do

Thrive and then to move on from that?

515

: 00:30:01

How have you?

516

: 00:30:02

Got to that decision point.

517

: 00:30:03

What, what is it in you that

gets you to that decision point?

518

: 00:30:07

Marc Convey: I think I've got

better at it over the years.

519

: 00:30:12

I think each decision I've made is,

is layered on top of the previous one.

520

: 00:30:20

so if we, we wind back a bit, you know, a

little bit further, before I founded and

521

: 00:30:26

ran 23D for, for five, over five years,

you know, I had a, a very successful

522

: 00:30:32

career in, in the poker industry of,

of all industries, like, How I got into

523

: 00:30:37

that, I don't know, but, you know, I was

at the top of the game, you know, I'd

524

: 00:30:41

won the biggest award that I could win,

and I'd hit a glass ceiling, and at that

525

: 00:30:48

point that I'd hit the glass ceiling,

I didn't want to join any of the gaming

526

: 00:30:51

companies, but I think my ego or people

were feeding my ego, you know, and it got

527

: 00:30:59

to a point where there was opportunities

to fill gaps in the market that I spotted.

528

: 00:31:05

And I had such a great balanced

life, you know, as a freelancer

529

: 00:31:09

in the, in the poker media world,

I was traveling around the world.

530

: 00:31:12

I could travel loads in between and

traveling for me has been really

531

: 00:31:16

important as part of my growth as well.

532

: 00:31:18

Maybe we can, you know, dive into

that afterwards, but in terms of.

533

: 00:31:24

You know, I fell into a trap, I think,

by leaving my freelance life behind

534

: 00:31:30

and starting a video agency because

people were telling me in these

535

: 00:31:34

big game companies that, you know,

you're the person that can do this.

536

: 00:31:37

And, you know, I talk about these

ideas that I had, you know, I'm

537

: 00:31:40

never short of creative ideas.

538

: 00:31:43

And I started to forget the

growth that I'd made, I think,

539

: 00:31:48

and was chasing riches there.

540

: 00:31:52

were things that hadn't made

me happy up to that point.

541

: 00:31:54

You know, wow, I could start

this creative video agency.

542

: 00:31:58

I can build a team.

543

: 00:31:59

I can earn off other people and not

just off, off myself, you know, margins.

544

: 00:32:05

And so pounds and dollar signs

started coming into my head.

545

: 00:32:10

And I was running into, to a, to

a, to a scenario that just wasn't

546

: 00:32:14

suited with, with who I am and, and,

and how I'd, how I'd live my life.

547

: 00:32:18

And I, you know, I chased, chased,

chased the riches and, and extra

548

: 00:32:23

glory off the back of already

winning an awards and being, you

549

: 00:32:26

know, lauded for what I was doing.

550

: 00:32:29

And, and that was a mistake and I learned

that the hard way and I think it probably

551

: 00:32:34

took the pandemic to slow me down.

552

: 00:32:38

And made me, made me

think, think a lot more.

553

: 00:32:42

And the, you know, the company

was, an interesting juncture.

554

: 00:32:45

You know, we could have, there

was opportunities to sell

555

: 00:32:48

into, into bigger agencies.

556

: 00:32:50

but it was right that we shut it

down because I allow, I needed to, to

557

: 00:32:56

allow my business partner, James, to,

to, to grow as well personally and.

558

: 00:33:02

By doing that, I would have put it

into a position that wouldn't have

559

: 00:33:05

been good for his health and his

home life and all sorts of stuff.

560

: 00:33:08

So at that point, I was reminded, you

know, of what's really important to

561

: 00:33:14

me and where I'd always got my, my

version of richness and happiness,

562

: 00:33:18

you know, inside out way of thinking.

563

: 00:33:21

And so we just, we just let it go.

564

: 00:33:24

And that was a, that was a, that

was a difficult, difficult time,

565

: 00:33:29

but also an empowering time.

566

: 00:33:32

And then, yeah, then the Thrive Now thing

came along, and, and that was, we were

567

: 00:33:37

just about really to, to go somewhere,

and it was at that point that I could

568

: 00:33:42

see myself at that point falling back

into the trap again, and I was at this,

569

: 00:33:47

I've been here before, this is when, you

know, I was just a freelance poker person

570

: 00:33:54

before, and I'm being fed these things

by external, external forces, you know,

571

: 00:34:01

looking out into the world, business

partners, needs of all these different

572

: 00:34:05

people that I think I could help.

573

: 00:34:07

And I'd forgotten about myself again.

574

: 00:34:10

But before I got too deep into it,

I'd recognized the signs again.

575

: 00:34:17

And so it was, it was

much easier to make that.

576

: 00:34:19

So I think if we, we evolve, I think,

and you know, it's just life experience.

577

: 00:34:25

And if you kind of look back on

Honest, And it, you know, it was a

578

: 00:34:30

braver decision leaving 23D, I think,

coming in and telling my team, I

579

: 00:34:36

think I've taken this as far as I can.

580

: 00:34:38

I need to, to live a

more purpose led life.

581

: 00:34:41

I need to live a life that's

more aligned with, with who I am.

582

: 00:34:46

And that was harder because I was

leaving a team behind and I was

583

: 00:34:49

impacting other people's lives.

584

: 00:34:52

When it came to leaving Thrive Now.

585

: 00:34:55

It's almost like it wasn't a decision.

586

: 00:34:58

You know, I've gotten to that point

where there is no other direction

587

: 00:35:01

for me to go than to follow what

I'm doing now and sharing, sharing

588

: 00:35:07

my story and helping other people.

589

: 00:35:09

And that's all I needed to do and

I needed to simplify things back

590

: 00:35:13

down again because my life was

quite simple when I was just...

591

: 00:35:16

Traveling around the world and talking

and writing about a game, you know, and

592

: 00:35:20

then I'd leave that behind and there

was no baggage when I went home and

593

: 00:35:24

then I could go off and do a lovely

trip and then next thing I know I was

594

: 00:35:27

in the Bahamas or I was in Las Vegas

or I was, you know, in Monte Carlo.

595

: 00:35:32

It was a, I didn't

realize how good I had it.

596

: 00:35:34

I had it so, so it got, it got,

it's getting easier and easier

597

: 00:35:37

as I get older and I get wiser.

598

: 00:35:40

Sal Jefferies: Lovely.

599

: 00:35:40

That's such a powerful story.

600

: 00:35:41

I love hearing that.

601

: 00:35:43

It's, it's so easy to think we need

more, you know, with the whole,

602

: 00:35:46

our entire culture is predicated on

it and our entire business models

603

: 00:35:49

are mostly predicated on growth.

604

: 00:35:51

I mean, I've spent a lot of time

around business people and it's all

605

: 00:35:53

about growth and, you know, exits

and this, that, and the other.

606

: 00:35:57

You know, like some of the guys I

work with, both male and female.

607

: 00:36:00

You know, in a, in a, in a high

pressure situation and they're

608

: 00:36:04

working really hard and that's

admirable, the work in hard ethic.

609

: 00:36:08

I really struggle with the expense

of the success chase though, because

610

: 00:36:13

I'll ask a client like, Okay, so

you're pushing all these hours.

611

: 00:36:16

Tell me about your sleep.

612

: 00:36:17

It's not good.

613

: 00:36:17

Okay.

614

: 00:36:18

Tell me about how your body feels.

615

: 00:36:20

Not good.

616

: 00:36:20

Tell me about your exercise routine.

617

: 00:36:22

What exercise routine?

618

: 00:36:23

And you're like, okay.

619

: 00:36:24

So you're building this thing, right,

that's going to amass you some money

620

: 00:36:28

and all this expectations, which

by the way, you do have no idea

621

: 00:36:32

whether it's going to happen or not,

because the future is so in flux now.

622

: 00:36:36

And you may not be healthy

enough to enjoy it.

623

: 00:36:38

And literally, this is the

worst business decision going.

624

: 00:36:41

You know, if your health is not in, in

the right space, and you've already kind

625

: 00:36:45

of picked up on this a couple of times in

our conversation, and it's, you know, dear

626

: 00:36:48

to my heart, your health is your wealth.

627

: 00:36:51

You know, it's a, it's a statement from a

yoga teacher that I heard many years ago.

628

: 00:36:55

But it's a no brainer, right?

629

: 00:36:57

If you don't have your health,

you don't have your business.

630

: 00:36:59

Full stop.

631

: 00:37:00

So forget your business and all

your hours and all that kind

632

: 00:37:02

of external commodification.

633

: 00:37:04

If your body doesn't work very well,

and you're not in good shape...

634

: 00:37:07

everything else will go to pot as well.

635

: 00:37:09

So it's so important.

636

: 00:37:11

And I think health, we talk about

it often thinking physically, but

637

: 00:37:14

in my world, there's no distinction

between mental and physical.

638

: 00:37:17

They, yes, there are distinctions of

course, but they're all connected,

639

: 00:37:21

but they're not separate entities.

640

: 00:37:22

So if your physical health's good, but

your emotional health isn't, then the

641

: 00:37:25

overall health isn't optimized or good.

642

: 00:37:28

Whereas if we can start to balance

them all, that really shifts.

643

: 00:37:32

Which leads me to think, well, if we're

on this kind of process of success

644

: 00:37:35

and growth and, and, but not sure,

like, how do I find the fulfillment?

645

: 00:37:39

You're asking questions like,

which bit of my life was good?

646

: 00:37:42

Was it popping over to Monte

Carlo and doing a thing and then

647

: 00:37:44

going to, you know, Las Vegas?

648

: 00:37:46

Or was it, you know, pushing hard in an

agency, lots of hours and stretching?

649

: 00:37:50

It's kind of, it's not

hard to decide, is it?

650

: 00:37:52

Like, well, which one was a better life?

651

: 00:37:54

So I guess one of the things I

hear and, and I'm sure all our,

652

: 00:37:58

our listeners here as well, there

is courage here in letting go.

653

: 00:38:03

There's courage in letting go and

perhaps what isn't right for you.

654

: 00:38:05

And clearly you've done that

multiple times recently and that

655

: 00:38:09

courage to step into the unknown.

656

: 00:38:11

And that really excites me when

I, when I hear that from you.

657

: 00:38:14

And obviously if I, if I, when I

step into that space, stepping into

658

: 00:38:18

the unknown with courage and trust.

659

: 00:38:21

That's absolute power because I do

wonder that the trap we get into is we

660

: 00:38:25

think something's going to happen and

it could be based on shaky grounds,

661

: 00:38:30

you know, the pandemic showed us this,

t all the business plans from: 2020

662

: 00:38:34

just got torpedoed because of that.

663

: 00:38:35

And there's going to be a whole host

of changes coming up with all the

664

: 00:38:38

things that's happening in the world.

665

: 00:38:40

I wonder if you could say a little bit

more around your focus on your kind of

666

: 00:38:45

mental, emotional and physical health

that you're really attuning to now as you

667

: 00:38:50

think about fulfillment and what you need.

668

: 00:38:52

How do you attend to those areas?

669

: 00:38:55

Marc Convey: there's, there's, there's

a couple of things that I do and I've

670

: 00:38:58

actually just added, added one this week

and it's taken me to a whole nother level.

671

: 00:39:03

And I think this really plays into

to what you practice with, you know,

672

: 00:39:06

the mind and body and movement.

673

: 00:39:08

morning routine is, is big for me, you

know, I heard on a, I can't remember

674

: 00:39:13

what part podcast it was, but someone

said, find the thing in the morning that,

675

: 00:39:18

that helps you swim upstream so that the

rest of the day you can drift downstream

676

: 00:39:25

and that can be whatever works for you.

677

: 00:39:27

It could be going for a run.

678

: 00:39:29

It can be, you know, having a workout,

it can be meditating, it can be reading,

679

: 00:39:33

it can be whatever you want to do.

680

: 00:39:36

So I found what works for me is

just a little bit of breath work

681

: 00:39:38

while I'm in bed in the morning.

682

: 00:39:40

Then I go and make myself a cup of tea.

683

: 00:39:42

then I get back into bed

and, I read for a bit.

684

: 00:39:45

normally, you know, it's a, a kind of,

a mindset story, positivity, whatever

685

: 00:39:51

it may be, what I'm into at that time.

686

: 00:39:53

and then I just do 10

minutes of meditation.

687

: 00:39:56

And that for me just sets me up and

that's what helps me swim upstream and

688

: 00:40:00

the rest of the day swim downstream.

689

: 00:40:03

but what now I've started doing

is at the other end of the day

690

: 00:40:06

is adding in some exercise.

691

: 00:40:08

So I've just joined a place where,

cause I'm doing a lot of, you know,

692

: 00:40:12

writing my story at the moment.

693

: 00:40:13

So I do that and I go in and then

I, two hours intensive writing and

694

: 00:40:18

then I've got the afternoon to.

695

: 00:40:20

to plan, do admin, have calls,

conversations, you know, come

696

: 00:40:25

on wonderful podcasts like

this, and then I do exercise.

697

: 00:40:28

But what I needed to do was find a place

where While I'm making that routine to

698

: 00:40:37

make it as easy and as accessible for me.

699

: 00:40:40

So I'm in a place where I'm

effectively working in the gym.

700

: 00:40:44

So there are no excuses for me.

701

: 00:40:46

And I can't tell you how good it's been

for my mental health just this week.

702

: 00:40:50

So I've got my day ends booked marked.

703

: 00:40:53

And I'm only going to do

that four days a week.

704

: 00:40:56

And then Friday it's going to

be whatever you want to do.

705

: 00:40:59

So I want to enjoy having a simplified

routine and now that I'm not running

706

: 00:41:05

an agency or trying to grow a movement,

my inbox is really quiet and I'm,

707

: 00:41:11

oh, it's honestly, it's just lovely.

708

: 00:41:14

It's like I could just focus on me now.

709

: 00:41:16

so it's, you know, it's novel, it's fresh.

710

: 00:41:19

So, you know, let's caveat that.

711

: 00:41:20

This is the first week of me doing it.

712

: 00:41:22

But yeah, it feels great.

713

: 00:41:24

I've kind of feel, feel like

I've got everything in the

714

: 00:41:27

right place at the moment

715

: 00:41:28

and everything's pulling in this,

in the right direction for me,

716

: 00:41:33

Sal Jefferies: That's

really, really great.

717

: 00:41:35

And, you know, I'm going to say it because

it's part of the MMM process that...

718

: 00:41:40

Movement is absolutely fundamental.

719

: 00:41:42

It's the hole that I saw when I was

working psychologically only that

720

: 00:41:45

people weren't connecting to their

bodies and from the simple things

721

: 00:41:47

like a breath work practice or a

more gentle like yoga practice to

722

: 00:41:51

running, to walking, to feeding and.

723

: 00:41:54

And I've shared my story many

times, and to kind of just keep

724

: 00:41:57

it short, I train most days.

725

: 00:41:59

And train means, it's just a

term I use, but I move most days.

726

: 00:42:02

So it'll look like, I mean, I have

a five million year year step count.

727

: 00:42:05

That's my, that's my target.

728

: 00:42:06

Sounds a lot.

729

: 00:42:07

It sounds a lot, but it's

only about 13, 500 a day.

730

: 00:42:10

So it's a really like, what a cool goal,

but actually 13, 500, super doable.

731

: 00:42:15

It's not

732

: 00:42:16

Marc Convey: you're you're not

counting to five million, are you?

733

: 00:42:18

Not each though.

734

: 00:42:19

Sal Jefferies: Not a shame.

735

: 00:42:19

No, no, it's

736

: 00:42:20

Marc Convey: 41,

737

: 00:42:21

444.

738

: 00:42:22

41, 445.

739

: 00:42:25

Come on Sal, you're almost at six figures.

740

: 00:42:27

Sal Jefferies: I know that's

why we use tech, right?

741

: 00:42:29

You know, that just I look at the

watch, it says what I've done.

742

: 00:42:31

I'm like, yeah, I'm not

too caught up on it.

743

: 00:42:33

It's it's again.

744

: 00:42:34

It's arbitrary.

745

: 00:42:35

It's all for me is about can I move

and can I say connected to my body?

746

: 00:42:39

Because there's a joyfulness to that.

747

: 00:42:40

There's a live and aliveness to that and

You know, as I've said many times, you

748

: 00:42:45

know, I'm, I'm now, pushing half over

half a century, which to some people

749

: 00:42:50

they get the old kind of like, well,

you kind of should be slowing down and

750

: 00:42:52

taking these like no absolute rubbish.

751

: 00:42:54

This is time to execute and go, go more.

752

: 00:42:57

And I'll do all sorts of

practices, but my practice is

753

: 00:43:00

the first thing in the morning.

754

: 00:43:01

I bracket the morning.

755

: 00:43:02

So the first.

756

: 00:43:04

Good few hours a day is for movement

and that could look like a walk with the

757

: 00:43:07

dog someday, swim, it's a gym session,

a lot of different gym sessions of

758

: 00:43:11

different types, but that's my time.

759

: 00:43:14

For someone else that

might not work at all.

760

: 00:43:16

You might get up and literally

just need to go straight into your

761

: 00:43:18

work scenario and that's fine.

762

: 00:43:19

Or you might need to

meditate and that's fine.

763

: 00:43:22

But finding where the friction is

or least friction to add in movement

764

: 00:43:26

is an absolute win win for everyone.

765

: 00:43:28

It's a win for your body,

it's a win for your mind.

766

: 00:43:30

And finding where it is.

767

: 00:43:32

So, I've got a buddy I was with the other

day and he can't do morning exercise.

768

: 00:43:35

It's not his thing.

769

: 00:43:36

But he's after work.

770

: 00:43:37

I'm like, awesome, just

bracket that time, do it then.

771

: 00:43:40

I'm completely the other way.

772

: 00:43:42

So not that one way is right, but it's

about making sure it gets put in as a,

773

: 00:43:46

as a, as an important piece of your day.

774

: 00:43:49

Because if you're moving well, if your

body is strong and supple and able to do

775

: 00:43:53

things, The expression in the mind and the

emotional state is vital, but I too will

776

: 00:43:59

meditate, but I do it after my exercise.

777

: 00:44:01

I go upstream first with lots of

stuff and then I come downstream

778

: 00:44:04

to say that that works for me.

779

: 00:44:07

I kind of want to bring

this to some summary now.

780

: 00:44:10

so we've spoken a lot about many

different things and your story is

781

: 00:44:12

vast and I can't wait to hear your

story pure and unadulterated and,

782

: 00:44:16

and you're of course always welcome

back on my, on my show anytime.

783

: 00:44:20

I kind of want to tap back in.

784

: 00:44:21

You know, we spoke a

while back, didn't we?

785

: 00:44:23

And we were saying about what

I call the looked at life.

786

: 00:44:26

So we can look at Instagram

or LinkedIn or you look at the

787

: 00:44:29

person with a very nice car.

788

: 00:44:31

Whatever the thing you're looking at.

789

: 00:44:33

And we can assume that what that

looks like feels like something.

790

: 00:44:39

For instance, if you have a, let's

say someone's looking good and they've

791

: 00:44:42

got all this wealth, let's say.

792

: 00:44:44

And you can assume that they are, they're

happy, they're content, they're fulfilled.

793

: 00:44:49

And yet I know from a coaching

practice of coaching a lot of

794

: 00:44:52

high net worth people that they're

not necessarily happy or content.

795

: 00:44:55

They have a lot of money, but

they'll come to me because we're

796

: 00:44:57

working on existential challenges.

797

: 00:44:59

And we spoke a little bit around

the distinction and the difference

798

: 00:45:02

between what you see on the outside...

799

: 00:45:04

And what you feel on the inside,

it can be very, very different.

800

: 00:45:07

And what kind of, would it be okay

to summarize on your own experience,

801

: 00:45:10

which I was really touched my heart

when you told me about, of course,

802

: 00:45:14

of course you, what you said to me

about how you weigh your trauma.

803

: 00:45:16

Are you happy to share a little bit about

that, that description for, for, for us?

804

: 00:45:21

Marc Convey: Yeah, big, big time.

805

: 00:45:22

You know, I think I touched on that a

little bit earlier where the picture

806

: 00:45:27

that was being painted for me during

my recovery in the early days, you

807

: 00:45:31

know, was one that wasn't very bright.

808

: 00:45:36

So I learned very, very early on that the,

the signposts that so called happiness

809

: 00:45:44

that this consumer driven world that we

live in, you know, you know, there for us

810

: 00:45:51

to follow, just, just, just don't work.

811

: 00:45:53

And while they weren't going to work

for me, so I was forced down a different

812

: 00:45:57

path really, because of the, the, the

Western world that I was growing up in

813

: 00:46:02

and you know what, I found a much nicer

path to, to, to go down and, you know,

814

: 00:46:07

I'll share a little story with you.

815

: 00:46:09

I sat in there.

816

: 00:46:10

I was sat in the pub, you know, I do

like a pub, if anyone knows me, with,

817

: 00:46:14

with my mum last year and explaining to

her that, yeah, it's okay, mum, I've,

818

: 00:46:19

you know, left this video company and,

you know, just kind of assuring her

819

: 00:46:23

that I wasn't having a midlife crisis

meltdown and actually that I was just

820

: 00:46:28

doing this for fulfillment And I've sat

with my mum, and she asked me, you know,

821

: 00:46:34

why I had never shown a huge interest

in, in trying to support charities

822

: 00:46:40

associated with, with burns victims

or defigurements, and it wasn't like I

823

: 00:46:44

wasn't interested in helping those people.

824

: 00:46:47

But I said to her, and I pointed over

to an imaginary corner in the, in the,

825

: 00:46:51

in the pub, and I said, I'm really

interested in helping that, that person

826

: 00:46:56

over there in the corner that, you know,

is Instagram cookie cutter perfect That

827

: 00:47:03

has probably like stepped out of a Range

Rover and it's got all the gear, looks

828

: 00:47:07

great, sit down Anyone would pass them

and look and be a bit envious about

829

: 00:47:13

the life that they had But just below

the surface They're really unhappy.

830

: 00:47:20

They've got a lot of trauma

going on and But what do they

831

: 00:47:24

have to complain about, right?

832

: 00:47:26

What do they have to complain about?

833

: 00:47:28

And I was like, there's a much bigger

problem that we have in society with,

834

: 00:47:34

with where we look for validation

and we look for it because we've

835

: 00:47:39

been turned from citizens into

consumers and it's all about driving

836

: 00:47:44

money and and we've got it so wrong.

837

: 00:47:48

And I'm just so thankful that what

happened to me happened 30 years ago

838

: 00:47:54

when there weren't, you know, camera

phones and there wasn't social media and

839

: 00:47:59

that my integration back into society

was made a lot easier because of that.

840

: 00:48:04

Now the problem's got so much worse

in the last 30 years and we're seeing

841

: 00:48:08

that the mental health is on the rise.

842

: 00:48:12

So I want to make it, you know,

a vocation of mine to be able to.

843

: 00:48:16

To help people understand that

there is a different way, that

844

: 00:48:19

it's all about internal validation.

845

: 00:48:22

And it's so little about

external validation.

846

: 00:48:26

And, and there is that

Richardson that we talked about.

847

: 00:48:30

And it, and it's not in,

it's not in Prada bags.

848

: 00:48:34

And it's not in Range Rover.

849

: 00:48:36

And it's, and it's not in getting

Botox and filling your lips.

850

: 00:48:40

And it's not about the Kardashians.

851

: 00:48:43

It's...

852

: 00:48:45

And so often you, you, you get

the things that you're chasing.

853

: 00:48:49

You remember this, we know this as kids,

we can all tap into our own journeys.

854

: 00:48:53

You know, that's the thing.

855

: 00:48:54

It's like the amount of presents we get

as kids and you get something up and it

856

: 00:48:58

makes you happy for 10 minutes and you

throw it aside and, but we all remember

857

: 00:49:03

the incredible holiday that we had.

858

: 00:49:05

And if we went to Disneyland or, you

know, that kid that we met, you know,

859

: 00:49:10

when we were running down the beach and.

860

: 00:49:12

These are the things, these are the things

that, that impact your soul, that, that,

861

: 00:49:16

that raise your consciousness, that, that

make you feel, you know, we, I want to

862

: 00:49:22

feel sad, I want to feel happy, you want

to fall in love with, with, with other

863

: 00:49:26

people, that's where richness come from.

864

: 00:49:28

It doesn't come from material things.

865

: 00:49:30

And the quicker we learn that

as individuals, then the more

866

: 00:49:35

content we'll be as human beings.

867

: 00:49:37

Sal Jefferies: Beautiful, beautiful.

868

: 00:49:39

So, so true.

869

: 00:49:40

So, so true.

870

: 00:49:41

We swim on the surface, but

the magic's in the depths.

871

: 00:49:44

Always.

872

: 00:49:45

Yeah.

873

: 00:49:46

Yeah.

874

: 00:49:48

Go deep, go deep.

875

: 00:49:49

and I resonate, you know, it's so

much of my, my trappings that I

876

: 00:49:53

was chasing a short story for me.

877

: 00:49:56

I was a photographer back when

I was in my thirties and it

878

: 00:49:59

was a struggle to get going.

879

: 00:50:00

That's a story for another podcast,

but it I finally got going and

880

: 00:50:04

I got to a point where I was

earning a lot of money from it.

881

: 00:50:05

I was getting paid very, very well.

882

: 00:50:07

I was doing very good work and.

883

: 00:50:10

And my heart wasn't in it at the end.

884

: 00:50:11

I literally had, like you, checked out.

885

: 00:50:13

People are like, what are you doing?

886

: 00:50:14

You're like, you're, you're so successful.

887

: 00:50:15

You've got money, you know, you've

got clients, you've booked up so much.

888

: 00:50:19

I was like, I'm done.

889

: 00:50:20

I'm literally, I feel

empty going to a shoot.

890

: 00:50:22

And that is no way to show up at anything.

891

: 00:50:25

and I retired.

892

: 00:50:25

I, I wrote my own, I

resigned from my own company.

893

: 00:50:28

I retired the business.

894

: 00:50:29

And I went on at that time

to become a yoga teacher.

895

: 00:50:32

And that is not a well paid trade compared

to the photography trade I was in.

896

: 00:50:36

So I probably took a 66% pay cut and

it was like, wow, that was massive.

897

: 00:50:42

And yet going to a yoga studio

and seeing change, it's priceless.

898

: 00:50:47

Now, yes, of course we need to pay

the bills, pay the rent, the mortgage,

899

: 00:50:51

whatever you, you need the basics

covered, but that's practicalities.

900

: 00:50:56

You need to cover that for sure.

901

: 00:50:57

So we don't want to diminish that,

but the deep stuff that matters.

902

: 00:51:00

It's about a conversation

or impact or something.

903

: 00:51:04

It's not about a 300 pound yoga mat or

some nonsense that we get caught up in.

904

: 00:51:08

Like I really need that thing.

905

: 00:51:09

And it's soon as we realize that and

realize that who does this serve?

906

: 00:51:15

It's a question I use myself.

907

: 00:51:16

It's a question I will

always ask a coaching client.

908

: 00:51:19

And it's a question I invite all of

us to think about who does this serve?

909

: 00:51:22

If you're thinking about buying

another thing, spending your money on

910

: 00:51:25

something else, who does that serve?

911

: 00:51:28

Does it serve you?

912

: 00:51:29

Or does it serve the, probably the

organization that wants your money to

913

: 00:51:33

go to their bank account and not yours?

914

: 00:51:36

And that's fine if it's transactional,

but if it's you're trying to buy

915

: 00:51:39

happiness and fulfillment and that's

your success model It will be like a

916

: 00:51:43

sieve and empty before you know it.

917

: 00:51:46

So yes, deep stuff.

918

: 00:51:48

Go deep.

919

: 00:51:49

Mark, thank you for your time.

920

: 00:51:51

I wonder if there is one last thought

you could share with us about you've

921

: 00:51:57

shared so much of course already, but

one last thought to kind of summarize

922

: 00:52:00

about this whole thing about what

is fulfillment, what is success.

923

: 00:52:04

The real stuff, not the illusory

stuff, but the real stuff.

924

: 00:52:08

Marc Convey: I think the,

it's about authenticity and

925

: 00:52:13

an inside out way of thinking.

926

: 00:52:16

So you need to, there needs to be balance,

I think, between putting yourself first.

927

: 00:52:25

It's okay to be selfless.

928

: 00:52:27

It's okay not to be a people pleaser.

929

: 00:52:30

But at the same time, you need a level of

consciousness that is balanced with that.

930

: 00:52:34

And if you get those two things right.

931

: 00:52:37

You won't become a narcissist.

932

: 00:52:38

You'll, you'll, you'll

find your core values.

933

: 00:52:41

You'll go deep into your soul and,

and those things will anchor you.

934

: 00:52:47

And, and then those things will make you

more attractive to other people as well.

935

: 00:52:51

So you'll end up getting, what

you need from, from the external

936

: 00:52:55

world, but just in different ways.

937

: 00:52:56

It will be in, in the depth of the

relationships we have with other

938

: 00:52:59

people, because if you're showing up.

939

: 00:53:02

As your true self, then, then that's

what people, that's what people want.

940

: 00:53:06

Sal Jefferies: Amazing.

941

: 00:53:08

To me, my mind came up with two

words to summarize what you said.

942

: 00:53:12

Ease, not effort.

943

: 00:53:15

Just ease into that.

944

: 00:53:16

Be yourself.

945

: 00:53:17

Be authentic.

946

: 00:53:17

Be magnetic.

947

: 00:53:18

Be, courageous.

948

: 00:53:20

Trust and Authenticity rather than the

efforting and, you know, the overworking

949

: 00:53:25

or whatever that thing is, which is toxic.

950

: 00:53:27

So Mark, amazing.

951

: 00:53:29

Thank you so much for sharing

some of your story at some level.

952

: 00:53:32

I know your story is even bigger

than that, but so much you shared,

953

: 00:53:35

which is really powerful to hear

personally, for my dear listener.

954

: 00:53:39

I trust that there's so much that Mark,

and hopefully I've been able to bounce

955

: 00:53:43

has really got you thinking around.

956

: 00:53:44

How do you think about success?

957

: 00:53:45

What do you think about fulfillment?

958

: 00:53:46

How are you living?

959

: 00:53:48

and Are You On A Place

That's Working For You.

960

: 00:53:51

So lots of thoughts.

961

: 00:53:52

It's a provocational podcast.

962

: 00:53:54

It's one to inspire.

963

: 00:53:55

I hope it has inspired you.

964

: 00:53:57

So until the next time,

thank you and goodbye.

965

: 00:54:05

Thank you so much for listening.

966

: 00:54:07

If you enjoyed the episode,

please subscribe and if a friend

967

: 00:54:10

would benefit from hearing this,

do send it on to them as well.

968

: 00:54:15

If you would like to get in touch

yourself, then you can go to my website,

969

: 00:54:18

which is sal jeffries.com, spelled S

A L J E F E R I E s sal jeffries.com.

970

: 00:54:27

Hit the get in touch link and there

you can send me a direct message.

971

: 00:54:31

If you'd like to go one step further

and learn whether coaching could help

972

: 00:54:34

you overcome a challenge or a block

in your life, then do reach out and

973

: 00:54:39

I offer a call where we can discuss

how this may be able to help you.

974

: 00:54:43

Until the next time, take care.