Episode 9

full
Published on:

14th Sep 2023

Why you need to be doing mobility training if you want to avoid aches, pains and injuries.

Aches, pains and restricted movement may be the result of a lack of mobility training. Gemma Ferguson and I go deep into what mobility is, how to integrate it into life and other exercise activities.

Mobility is way more than a bit of stretching. It's a foundation for all other movement - in every area of life. The positive effects on the body and how I feel make this a non-negotiable part of my training.

Gemma and I both teach Yoga and movement disciplines and we discuss the differences between yoga and mobility. We also call out the negative impact and risk factors a lack of mobility has on strength training and exercise. Gemma has such a positive energy and and I think you'll get a lot from this episode to support your body and fitness training.

Get in touch with Gemma

Facebook: gem.fit

Instagram: @gem.fit_

Website: https://gem.fit/

Get in touch with Sal

If this episode has caught your attention and you wish to learn more, then please contact me. I offer a free 20 min call where we can discuss a challenge your facing and how I may be able to help you.

Transcript
Sal Jefferies:

Welcome to Mindset, mood and Movement, a systemic approach to human

Sal Jefferies:

behavior, performance, and wellbeing.

Sal Jefferies:

Our psychological, emotional, and physical health are all connected,

Sal Jefferies:

and my guests and I endeavor to share knowledge, strategies, and tools for

Sal Jefferies:

you to enrich your life and work.

Sal Jefferies:

Today we are looking at why you need to be doing mobility training if you want

Sal Jefferies:

to avoid aches, pains, and injuries.

Sal Jefferies:

I'm delighted to have Gemma Ferguson off Gem Fit.

Sal Jefferies:

Joining me, Gemer is a specialist in mobility, so I have a

Sal Jefferies:

reasonable knowledge in the space.

Sal Jefferies:

Gemma has lots of knowledge.

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Together we're gonna look at how mobility training is super important

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and how it's gonna benefit you.

Sal Jefferies:

Gemma, welcome.

Gemma:

Thanks for having me.

Sal Jefferies:

Good to have you.

Sal Jefferies:

I'm, uh, I want to go straight into mobility because mobility, we want

Sal Jefferies:

to describe what it is and, and perhaps understand where and how you

Sal Jefferies:

got into it and, and why it matters.

Sal Jefferies:

And perhaps can we, can we get your definition of mobility

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to start with so we understand exactly what we're talking about?

Sal Jefferies:

And then secondly, perhaps you can take us like when you started

Sal Jefferies:

to pay a lot of attention to

Gemma:

Yeah.

Gemma:

So, for me, mobility is this like beautiful hybrid of flexibility,

Gemma:

stability and strength put together.

Gemma:

So there's a lot of ties there.

Gemma:

and I'm sure we'll unpack what each of those means and how we can have this.

Gemma:

Beautiful relationship with all of them.

Gemma:

but personally for me, whenever I started to do mobility training was definitely

Gemma:

when I, uh, really wanted to get into long distance running, triathlons, et cetera.

Gemma:

And I also knew that I was nursing a couple of autoimmune diseases.

Gemma:

So keeping the inflammation down in the body, uh, helping my joints have longevity

Gemma:

and then also increasing my performance.

Gemma:

On as well as that.

Gemma:

and also decreasing injury.

Gemma:

So yeah, it was a no-brainer for me to be honest.

Gemma:

Uh, when I heard about it, it sounded a bit like a magical formula.

Sal Jefferies:

when was that?

Sal Jefferies:

Cause I, I know we've spoken and you've said about, you know, distance

Sal Jefferies:

running triathlon, so some, some challenging, uh, areas of sport.

Sal Jefferies:

When, when, how, how long ago did you actually start paying a lot

Sal Jefferies:

of attention to mobility as part of your training and part of your

Sal Jefferies:

lifestyle?

Gemma:

I'd say it was probably about six to seven years ago, I'd

Gemma:

been practicing yoga for, I'd say probably over like 10 to 12 years.

Gemma:

And, uh, it was serving me really well, but I was also feeling like

Gemma:

I'm, I'm flexible, but am I strong?

Gemma:

And, and then I was trying to find this sort of hybrid element of it as well.

Sal Jefferies:

That's really interesting to hear about your

Sal Jefferies:

journey from yoga and into mobility.

Sal Jefferies:

I too, uh, practice yoga, and I've taught yoga for many years

Sal Jefferies:

and yoga's a great discipline.

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What I see with yoga is that sometimes some pieces are missing elements

Sal Jefferies:

of strength and some aspects.

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So for complete mobility, I, I think yoga's brilliant.

Sal Jefferies:

I wonder if we need a bit more so.

Sal Jefferies:

Can we go a little deeper into those three components that you described

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beautifully about what actually is mobility and, and of course to think

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about if you've got aches, if you've got pains, if you've got injuries,

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or you definitely don't want them.

Sal Jefferies:

Why we, why we need to understand these, these three pieces of what

Sal Jefferies:

mobility is.

Gemma:

like what you mentioned before, yoga is, is an amazing tool

Gemma:

both for the body and the mind.

Gemma:

And I'm also a yoga teacher.

Gemma:

I, I love yoga.

Gemma:

I teach it many, many classes.

Gemma:

And to be honest, most of my yoga classes are a bit of a

Gemma:

hybrid of both mobility and.

Gemma:

And yoga.

Gemma:

So it's a bit more like sports based stuff.

Gemma:

but.

Gemma:

If we were to really delve down into each and every single section of it, for

Gemma:

example, with a yoga posture, let's say at the end of the class when we do our

Gemma:

stretchy, stretchy sections, potentially, that's quite often what happens.

Gemma:

Uh, let's lie on our back and do a hamstring stretch.

Gemma:

So we're lying on our back.

Gemma:

We've got one leg up towards the sky and we're wrapping our fingers around the

Gemma:

back of the leg with us, the hamstrings.

Gemma:

and we're just lying there.

Gemma:

And every time we excel, maybe we pull the leg a little bit closer.

Gemma:

That's essentially flexibility.

Gemma:

Trying to let the nervous system calm down a bit, try and melt

Gemma:

into the stretch, and trying to find your passive range of motion.

Gemma:

So when there's nothing really active going on in the body quite

Gemma:

often it's a little bit of a letting the mind relax and getting the

Gemma:

parasympathetic nervous system to.

Gemma:

Allow yourself to get in to find that final and passive range of motion.

Gemma:

stability, however, is a little bit more around trying to find strength

Gemma:

around the joint capsule itself.

Gemma:

So if you were to try and hold that posture, But take the hand away.

Gemma:

Would you still be able to keep the leg exactly where it

Gemma:

is or will it fall back a bit?

Gemma:

Will it move back a bit?

Gemma:

And another way of doing it is that exact same stretch standing up.

Gemma:

Cause it's even harder.

Gemma:

You've got gravity to resist then as well.

Gemma:

and that is sort of where the relationship goes.

Gemma:

You're finding length still in your hamstring, but suddenly

Gemma:

your hips are like, ooh.

Gemma:

Oh my God, I've really gotta work hard here.

Gemma:

I've got stuff to hold onto.

Gemma:

I've got gravity to resist.

Gemma:

I've gotta still try and pull the leg in towards the chest, but my arms

Gemma:

aren't here to help, and that's whenever the magic can really start to happen.

Gemma:

So you need strength within your hips.

Gemma:

You need stability within the ligaments and the tendons around your hips.

Gemma:

And then you also need.

Gemma:

The flexibility of your hamstring to allow yourself to have the length

Gemma:

and the flexibility around many of the muscles around your hips as

Gemma:

well to bring yourself into that.

Gemma:

So maybe that answers your question a little bit as to

Gemma:

the difference between them.

Gemma:

and that's where I think we can then bring it into an actual real life scenario

Gemma:

where if you, for example, are doing trail running and suddenly you have

Gemma:

to run up a hill and you've got this.

Gemma:

Big step to get up onto.

Gemma:

You've gotta get your leg up there, you've gotta get your knee up there,

Gemma:

and then you've got to push yourself up.

Gemma:

So not only do you need the flexibility, you need the strength, you need the

Gemma:

stability, you need the mobility, and it all becomes like functional in this

Gemma:

sort of beautiful hybrid together.

Gemma:

and that's what mobility training can really help develop and yeah, bring

Gemma:

you into being a stronger athlete.

Gemma:

Increase in your range of motion and the power output that

Gemma:

you have at these new ranges.

Gemma:

That's, in my opinion of it.

Gemma:

Of course, maybe you will have something else to add.

Sal Jefferies:

That's, that is a, as an excellent description.

Sal Jefferies:

And yes, there's a lot of misunderstandings around

Sal Jefferies:

what mobility actually is.

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And, and of course we have go language.

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Language is like, there's signposts and they take our brain to a certain

Sal Jefferies:

description like, oh, I know what that is.

Sal Jefferies:

And you've described that beautifully.

Sal Jefferies:

It's interesting.

Sal Jefferies:

I, I mean, I do a full range.

Sal Jefferies:

I do the full pate, I do cardiovascular and zone two, which is, you know,

Sal Jefferies:

sort of, front cross swimming, running, that sort of thing.

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I go to zone five, so I play volleyball.

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I do plyometrics, which is jumping about lots, explosion.

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I do heavy, heavy weights.

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I do all, everything.

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And, and, and again, if, if, if you're not into activity that much

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at the moment, don't be intimidated.

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It's, I've been doing this a long time.

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It's all a start, but our body is amazing, our.

Sal Jefferies:

A nervous system is an adaptive system.

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It can adapt to the environment we give it.

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So whatever we want to do, whether we want to be simply more mobile,

Sal Jefferies:

uh, stronger, uh, more energetic, all of these things into play.

Sal Jefferies:

One thing I see with certainly strength work, it's very common in the gym.

Sal Jefferies:

You got the, the big strong.

Sal Jefferies:

Practitioners, there's a lot of strength going on, and I might observe somebody

Sal Jefferies:

and there's, I dunno, a lack of range of movement in the, in the ankles.

Sal Jefferies:

In the hips, and they're gonna go for heavy squats.

Sal Jefferies:

It's like, okay, you haven't got the range.

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And the structure and the stability to take that safely.

Sal Jefferies:

So what happens with the weight and that displaces perhaps somewhere

Sal Jefferies:

inappropriate and causes the classic shoulder problem, back problem injury.

Sal Jefferies:

And this is where I think mobility is.

Sal Jefferies:

I mean, it's a non-negotiable for me, it's non negotiating my training.

Sal Jefferies:

It's non-negotiable people I work with.

Sal Jefferies:

It's easy to forget though if you are into running or cardio

Sal Jefferies:

or, or mainly strength work.

Sal Jefferies:

Or perhaps you don't do too much and you're sitting at a desk and think,

Sal Jefferies:

oh, I don't really, you need mobility.

Sal Jefferies:

Yeah.

Sal Jefferies:

Now let's, let's understand injury because it's all very well, isn't it?

Sal Jefferies:

We have a mindset in our culture, which is, you know, when there's

Sal Jefferies:

a problem, we go get it fixed.

Sal Jefferies:

It's unfortunate is the way we're wired, avoiding injury.

Sal Jefferies:

It's something I'm really interested in, gem.

Sal Jefferies:

So think of it like this.

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If you got an injury, what would happen?

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Let's say you are active, then you can't be active.

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We know that tissue changes quickly.

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So there's, uh, there's a guy called Professor Andy Galpin.

Sal Jefferies:

He's a professor of kinesiology in California, I think.

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Super guy.

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He says that we lose muscle strength three times quicker than we lose

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muscle mass, and we lose muscle power three times quicker than strength.

Sal Jefferies:

So if we are injured, you can't go to work, you can't do your exercise.

Sal Jefferies:

The knock on effect of that physiologically is a massive problem.

Sal Jefferies:

What are you seeing with some of your experiences working with injury,

Sal Jefferies:

either prevention or cure, and how's mobility playing a good role in them?

Gemma:

What a question.

Gemma:

I love it.

Gemma:

Uh, so first and foremost, going back to all of the activities that you're doing.

Gemma:

Love that.

Gemma:

Music to my ears, like I do, do marathon running in the past and

Gemma:

long distance, medium distance, short distance, triathlon, and

Gemma:

probably everything in between.

Gemma:

From yoga to strength, I always say variety is a spice of life.

Gemma:

Also for your body.

Gemma:

So it's not about doing a million chats in a primary series Ashtanga class.

Gemma:

It's not about only doing shoulder cars.

Gemma:

Uh, for mobility training.

Gemma:

The body loves variety as much as we do.

Gemma:

Imagine if you were eating, I don't know, crunchy nut cornflakes every day, all day.

Gemma:

You get really bored of it and you probably get malnourished, and the body is

Gemma:

exactly the same if you go white and pine the concrete every single day running.

Gemma:

It's not gonna be super nice for your body in the long term.

Gemma:

So love that, preach that.

Gemma:

a hundred percent.

Gemma:

And also with mobility training, it's, uh, I would say it's also

Gemma:

not a one size fits all model.

Gemma:

Of course, you, you do it for the sports and the hobbies that you have or also

Gemma:

the lifestyle choices that you have.

Gemma:

Maybe it's the fact that, as you say, you sit at a desk for eight hours a day.

Gemma:

Oh my gosh, my neck, my shoulders, my lower back.

Gemma:

Mobility and training is there for you.

Gemma:

It's also there for you if you wanna run a marathon, everything.

Gemma:

Oh, everything in between it.

Gemma:

The only downside I think with mobility is that sometimes, in all honesty,

Gemma:

it's not that sexy in comparison to like hit training, and all those other

Gemma:

like buzzwords that are out there.

Gemma:

But I think that genuinely it's a humble unsung hero.

Gemma:

Of course, I'm a little biased towards it, but, I genuinely think it's a very

Gemma:

unsung hero in the sporting industry.

Gemma:

And also, as you said before, a bit misunderstood with stretching and yoga.

Gemma:

but if you are doing it now, bef whenever you are enjoying your sports,

Gemma:

I see it as nearly like prehab.

Gemma:

Prehab is more important than rehab because we don't wanna get to rehab.

Gemma:

Like we don't wanna be rehab in our body.

Gemma:

So if you really put a value on your movement, really put a value on your

Gemma:

health, the movements that you do right now, pain-free, actually having gratitude,

Gemma:

recognizing it, honor, like honoring it.

Gemma:

the best thing that you can do is.

Gemma:

Is to, to honor it, really, truly honor it by giving yourself this gift of mobility.

Gemma:

Because health and movement, it is genuinely a gift.

Gemma:

It's something that we take for granted until it's not there.

Gemma:

and that increase in your active range of motion.

Gemma:

Motion is lotion is motion.

Gemma:

Uh, motion is lotion.

Gemma:

It's, it goes around.

Gemma:

and if you don't use it, we lose it.

Gemma:

I'm saying all of the rhyming words right now.

Gemma:

but for example, if you are doing, as you said, with weight training and

Gemma:

overhead press in the gym, and you have got, uh, restrictional movements

Gemma:

in your shoulders, If you don't work on your shoulder mobility, suddenly

Gemma:

the ribs are gonna flare open.

Gemma:

The lower back's gonna take the load, and you are confused as to why you

Gemma:

have got a lower back injury whenever you haven't really looked at the root

Gemma:

cause as to, oh, it's actually because.

Gemma:

The only time I reach my hands over my head is whenever I'm in the gym and

Gemma:

suddenly I've put 40 kilograms on it.

Gemma:

And your body's like, ah, what's this, what's happening here?

Gemma:

I gotta find other ways to get this movement.

Gemma:

So, oh, what else?

Gemma:

Oh, I'm gonna tick my ribs.

Gemma:

They're gonna open up, that's gonna give me some, some movement.

Gemma:

Oh, oh, my lower back.

Gemma:

Yeah.

Gemma:

Yeah.

Gemma:

Let's jump into that vertebrae.

Gemma:

Uh, then suddenly you're just a bit confused about it.

Gemma:

so yeah, I genuinely believe whether it's your sport or your

Gemma:

movement, Adding mobility in with it.

Gemma:

And maybe you need a bit of guidance at the start.

Gemma:

Maybe it's organically there already in your head.

Gemma:

Maybe you need a bit of a kick up the bum with motivation, which

Gemma:

is also why we are here today.

Gemma:

but hopefully this will help guide and give you a bit of like, yeah,

Gemma:

give it a get up and go for it.

Sal Jefferies:

Let's see.

Sal Jefferies:

That's, that's really cool.

Sal Jefferies:

Injury is a big one.

Sal Jefferies:

If you've, uh, I've been injured.

Sal Jefferies:

I've had a shoulder injury that's gonna recurrent and I've done a lot of work.

Sal Jefferies:

I've done, all the physical work.

Sal Jefferies:

I've done rehab work, rehab work.

Sal Jefferies:

I've done psychological work on it because actually my shoulder, there's

Sal Jefferies:

a connection, the body to trauma, so it's an trauma I experience.

Sal Jefferies:

So there are these things that are, that are layered through and.

Sal Jefferies:

No, the whole premise of my, my work and mindset, mood and movement

Sal Jefferies:

is to help us see that our mind and our emotions and our body all

Sal Jefferies:

interrelating, inter affect each other.

Sal Jefferies:

And you, you make such a good point there, that if the body, the interrelationship

Sal Jefferies:

of the body, such as the shoulders aren't opening or they don't have the range, cuz

Sal Jefferies:

you haven't done the mobility work, but you ask your body to do the heavy work,

Sal Jefferies:

you push, uh, maybe you're picking up your kids or something like off the floor.

Sal Jefferies:

If you don't have the range of movement, you are gonna be compromised.

Sal Jefferies:

And the compromise generally ends up in an injury.

Sal Jefferies:

And an injury is expensive on a lot of levels.

Sal Jefferies:

First, you, you might have to pay for, for rehab and it can get price pricey.

Sal Jefferies:

But I think the real cost is in what happens to your mental and emotional

Gemma:

my gosh.

Gemma:

So multifaceted.

Gemma:

Yeah.

Sal Jefferies:

And this is so big, right?

Sal Jefferies:

You know, so those of us who like say active, if you, if you say to a person

Sal Jefferies:

like Covid, like you can't go and exercise, that's, that's a big problem.

Sal Jefferies:

There's all these reasons.

Sal Jefferies:

Exercise isn't just like, it makes you feel good.

Sal Jefferies:

It biochemically changes how we feel and it biochemically affects the brain.

Sal Jefferies:

And if we are injured, we have a big problem.

Sal Jefferies:

The other thing I think is really interesting to consider is timelines.

Sal Jefferies:

I, I'm all about timelines.

Sal Jefferies:

In the fitness world, we often talk about, uh, you know, you might

Sal Jefferies:

see a six week program, a 12 week program, and there's, there's some,

Sal Jefferies:

there's some val validities to that.

Sal Jefferies:

It can getting people into a thing.

Sal Jefferies:

But if you want muscles to get big, you could hit it hard in the gym

Sal Jefferies:

with a good trainer and you get some bigger muscles in 12 weeks.

Sal Jefferies:

Cause they take around 12 weeks to grow.

Sal Jefferies:

If you want range, then you want the fascia.

Sal Jefferies:

So that's all the connect issue in between the muscles and stri the muscles and

Sal Jefferies:

all around that takes, uh, around 12.

Sal Jefferies:

To 18 to sometimes 24 months to change.

Sal Jefferies:

Now I'm gonna put hands up.

Sal Jefferies:

When I first did yoga, and I've said this before, I was

Sal Jefferies:

awful, absolutely awful at it.

Sal Jefferies:

I'm not natural.

Sal Jefferies:

Uh, in terms of flexibility.

Sal Jefferies:

I had to work.

Sal Jefferies:

It took me two to three years to be able to do a downward dog

Sal Jefferies:

that resembled the correct shape.

Gemma:

But that's amazing.

Gemma:

But you, I bet you you're a much better teacher than those people who are bendy

Gemma:

and flexible and then can just go into those, you're the teacher that are,

Gemma:

is gonna really attract the people who really need yoga, if that makes sense.

Gemma:

Yeah.

Sal Jefferies:

Yeah, absolutely.

Sal Jefferies:

Because of course, if you are flexible, and I saw this as a teacher, I, I

Sal Jefferies:

remember teaching many classes and there was a student once and she

Sal Jefferies:

was so flexible and I, and I was observing the movement patterns.

Sal Jefferies:

Her body would, what I call.

Sal Jefferies:

Flop.

Sal Jefferies:

So those are super flexy people.

Sal Jefferies:

You can just flop into a forward fold or a back bend and, and I could

Sal Jefferies:

observe that her awareness of her body wasn't as good as it could be.

Sal Jefferies:

But the interesting thing, she didn't have strength to contain the range.

Sal Jefferies:

And this also can lead to injury.

Sal Jefferies:

This also can lead to a lot of serious joint problems for

Sal Jefferies:

hyper

Gemma:

gonna say hyper mobile people, they really need

Gemma:

mobility and strength training.

Gemma:

Yeah, yeah,

Sal Jefferies:

yeah.

Sal Jefferies:

Yeah.

Sal Jefferies:

Now let's touch into lower back.

Sal Jefferies:

Cause you mentioned lower back pain as an example of if the person doing overhead

Sal Jefferies:

presses didn't have shorter mobility.

Sal Jefferies:

Now there's some stats on, a global stats on back pain.

Sal Jefferies:

I think in the UK it's between one in four and one in six

Sal Jefferies:

people are gonna have back pain.

Sal Jefferies:

But globally it's something like 619.

Sal Jefferies:

619 million people worldwide.

Sal Jefferies:

Uh, got low back pain.

Sal Jefferies:

That's around 2020 that was studied and that was in the Lancet.

Sal Jefferies:

And it's just crazy.

Sal Jefferies:

And I mean, the impact on, on work, on output, you know, a lot of people who

Sal Jefferies:

might listen to, uh, our podcasts, uh, and people I coach are business owners.

Sal Jefferies:

If you can't work for a while, if you're a freelancer or founder, That's

Sal Jefferies:

expensive and damaging a lot of levels, and lower back pain is everywhere, and

Sal Jefferies:

there's a lot of things that are pointed at why do we have lower back pain.

Sal Jefferies:

One of the things that both studies and certainly I see is a lack

Sal Jefferies:

of movement on a regular basis.

Sal Jefferies:

So I was just gonna kind of caveat, it's if you haven't done a lot of

Sal Jefferies:

movement and you're starting, and this is where you're starting to

Sal Jefferies:

get your, your learning around it.

Sal Jefferies:

You're not gonna launch into do a marathon.

Sal Jefferies:

If you've done not done a 5k, you're not gonna bench press your body weight

Sal Jefferies:

if you haven't even lifted a dumbbell.

Sal Jefferies:

It all starts at the first stage.

Sal Jefferies:

But one of the things that we need to do is have mo uh, movement and mobility every

Sal Jefferies:

day, because if the joints and the tissues aren't working, if the range of movement.

Sal Jefferies:

Uh, and the movement patterns are not happening.

Sal Jefferies:

I e your sedentary, that's a big problem.

Sal Jefferies:

Jim, I, I wanna get your, your knowledge on how to get someone from,

Sal Jefferies:

let's say a, a sedentary situation.

Sal Jefferies:

Let's say they've been working in an office too long and just got out of

Sal Jefferies:

things and, and hearing us now and thinking, yeah, I really want to get

Sal Jefferies:

back into my exercise and, and so forth.

Sal Jefferies:

What would be your guidance?

Sal Jefferies:

Okay.

Sal Jefferies:

Where would we start with the mobility part to, to nurture that journey?

Gemma:

Well, actually probably my guidance would be quite similar to my

Gemma:

pre and postnatal ladies that I train.

Gemma:

Actually it's start low and go slow.

Gemma:

because it's all about trying to hone into mindful movement.

Gemma:

And quality over quantity.

Gemma:

And that's very true with mobility.

Gemma:

it's not about how many joint rotations you can do, it's about

Gemma:

actually how slow can you do it?

Gemma:

How much can you really segment the spine?

Gemma:

We go back to yoga a little bit.

Gemma:

A cat and a car.

Gemma:

If you know this exercise, if you're listening, like you're on an all fours

Gemma:

hands underneath the shoulders, knees underneath the hips, and then you tuck

Gemma:

the tailbone under, run the back into like an angry cat position, and then you just

Gemma:

let the belly go, the tailbone comes up.

Gemma:

Maybe the eye gaze neutral in front of you.

Gemma:

A lot of us in yoga are just like, inhale.

Gemma:

Exhale.

Gemma:

Inhale, exhale.

Gemma:

Flex, extend, flex, extend.

Gemma:

And.

Gemma:

What can you really do to actually vertebrae at a spot

Gemma:

like vertebrae at a time?

Gemma:

Nearly like, if you have a necklace of pearls, moving

Gemma:

each of those one at a time.

Gemma:

How much control, how much strength, how much actually mind, body connection

Gemma:

does it need for you to, to put that signal vertebrae at a time?

Gemma:

So my actual.

Gemma:

Big advice to people starting back into activity, back into movement is not

Gemma:

to jump into that, oh, shredded six pack abs in 12 weeks sort of program.

Gemma:

Or suddenly find yourself in a dark room at a really fast treadmill.

Gemma:

actually start very, very slowly and, and.

Gemma:

Actually listen to the story that your body's telling you.

Gemma:

Where is achy and pain at the moment, and what movements can you do?

Gemma:

For example, with the lower back pain, there's so many reasons why an

Gemma:

individual could have lower back pain, whether it's ergonomic setup at the

Gemma:

desk, how many hours you're at the desk, if you hold tension into your

Gemma:

hips and stress into your lower back.

Gemma:

That mind body trauma connection, as you mentioned with your shoulders.

Gemma:

It could be your inner thighs, it could be your glutes, your hips, et cetera.

Gemma:

And.

Gemma:

If you have a fitness professional who has that sort of care and attention,

Gemma:

then they can start to make a more like, uh, individualized program.

Gemma:

For the Xs and pains that you have.

Gemma:

It could be that segmentation of the spine and hip cars.

Gemma:

So hip joint rotations, cars is an acronym, a very fancy

Gemma:

way of saying joint rotations.

Gemma:

If you're listening, and thinking what on earth that is.

Gemma:

Uh, we just doing that movement, standing up and taking five minutes every hour.

Gemma:

Do some spine movements, do some hip movements, sit back down.

Gemma:

That's, that's probably gonna be amazing for you at the start.

Gemma:

So start low, start slow, bite size chunks, nearly like those smart goals that

Gemma:

you always hear the corporates talk about.

Gemma:

it doesn't have to be big and fancy and a big commitment.

Gemma:

It's just actually what you can commit to right now.

Gemma:

I've got clients at the moment who are coming back, big CEOs,

Gemma:

three kids under the age of, uh, four, really, really busy bu and.

Gemma:

I have her doing 10 minute workouts a day, mobility, and all about getting the

Gemma:

abdominal wall back knitted together, DR.

Gemma:

Focused trainings.

Gemma:

And that's all that she's doing at the minute because that's the

Gemma:

time that she can commit to me.

Gemma:

But it's also amazing for her to have that moment and have that time and

Gemma:

then she goes back to her pelvic floor specialist and is able to track and see

Gemma:

the progress and is also able to say, Hey, my hips are actually so much better.

Gemma:

I'm able to sleep at night cuz my back's not sore anymore.

Gemma:

I feel like my core is able to support me more.

Gemma:

So it's all starting to knit together again for her.

Gemma:

And then more movement can start to unlock for her.

Gemma:

So step by step.

Gemma:

Unlocking more movement to be a stronger individual for

Gemma:

whatever it is that you need.

Gemma:

Whether it's walking to the shops, lifting your kids, chucking a ball

Gemma:

for your dog, or playing backyard cricket with your, with your family.

Gemma:

It doesn't matter what it is, it has to just be important for you,

Gemma:

and it's a good goal to aim for or to even strive to maintain.

Sal Jefferies:

Really nice.

Sal Jefferies:

Yeah, really, really nice.

Sal Jefferies:

And so interesting to hear the description of, you know, 10 minutes with your climb

Sal Jefferies:

and coming back from childbirth, obviously taking care of the correct, uh, work

Sal Jefferies:

and level and that it's interesting.

Sal Jefferies:

That you also mentioned about how to do a cat cow really well.

Sal Jefferies:

if you've been in a yoga class with you at the front or the practitioner,

Sal Jefferies:

you know, it's a million extensions, flexions, uh, can be quite mindless

Sal Jefferies:

and, and often what I call a lot of flip

Gemma:

Yeah, that's a really nice way.

Sal Jefferies:

the spine, especially the flexible people and then

Sal Jefferies:

perhaps the, the people who got more restriction in their body.

Sal Jefferies:

It's kind of, it's just awkward and it's uncomfortable and.

Sal Jefferies:

Yeah, so one person could kind of flip in and out.

Sal Jefferies:

The other person is kind of clunky and struggling.

Sal Jefferies:

I really like this premise that you are suggesting.

Sal Jefferies:

It's something that I adhere to.

Sal Jefferies:

Slow it down, slow

Gemma:

Less is more.

Sal Jefferies:

I.

Sal Jefferies:

Yeah, if you can't get the neurological conversation from the motor cortex

Sal Jefferies:

in the brain to talk to the lower vertebrae, the middle vertebrae, the

Sal Jefferies:

left shoulder, then how are you gonna do, how are you gonna play tennis?

Sal Jefferies:

Well, how are you gonna pick up your kids if you dunno what

Sal Jefferies:

your lower back's telling you?

Sal Jefferies:

Because switching this whole, neurological conversation on from the feedback from

Sal Jefferies:

the body to the brain is really important.

Sal Jefferies:

And it's subtle.

Sal Jefferies:

And if you are, if you are, you know, we we're all about trying to

Sal Jefferies:

avoid aches and pains, but if you are listening thinking, yeah, but my back's

Sal Jefferies:

killing me and my shoulders achy.

Sal Jefferies:

Well, they're loud signals.

Sal Jefferies:

They're like the loudest signals.

Sal Jefferies:

The feedback system of the body can tell you or tell you your brain.

Sal Jefferies:

The subtle signals are, oh, does that, is that looser?

Sal Jefferies:

Is that more subtle?

Sal Jefferies:

And it does take the quieter practice.

Sal Jefferies:

Now, I, I do a warmup system called ramp, which is raise, uh,

Sal Jefferies:

activate, mobilize, potentiate.

Sal Jefferies:

This is based on a, a sort of scientific printer and.

Sal Jefferies:

Mobilizing for the right workout is vital in there.

Sal Jefferies:

And, and I think if we use the ramp system, uh, which is raising your blood

Sal Jefferies:

pressure, excuse me, raising your blood flow, uh, raising heat, raising everything

Sal Jefferies:

in the body, and then activating the right parts and mobilizing the right

Sal Jefferies:

parts, whether you are a runner.

Sal Jefferies:

Whether you're a tennis player, whether you're a weight trainer, it's, it's

Sal Jefferies:

mobilization can go in at this warmup.

Sal Jefferies:

And I, and I love that because it becomes a non-negotiable for, for my practice,

Sal Jefferies:

for my clients, that we do the ramp system, we go through it and it works

Sal Jefferies:

really well in terms of lower back.

Sal Jefferies:

I, I wanna touch on this cause I, you know, the stats are

Sal Jefferies:

ridiculously high, low starts.

Sal Jefferies:

We have low back pain and I used to have a lot of low back pain too.

Sal Jefferies:

And I, I want to talk a little bit about the.

Sal Jefferies:

Synthesis between the back pain or let's say another body area, but let's

Sal Jefferies:

say we're back pain and where that takes you emotionally, how that feels.

Sal Jefferies:

People who are in pain are often quite miserable.

Sal Jefferies:

Yeah.

Sal Jefferies:

You know, people who are physically struggling are

Sal Jefferies:

often quite snappy and short.

Sal Jefferies:

So then if we think about the ecology of what happens if you've got lower

Sal Jefferies:

back issue, well, you're a bit grumpy.

Sal Jefferies:

That might mean you're grumpy to your partner, to your colleague.

Sal Jefferies:

That might mean that you're snappy to the assistant you talk to in,

Sal Jefferies:

in the store, that sort of thing.

Sal Jefferies:

What is going on with that whole energy is directly correlated between

Sal Jefferies:

how well you feel or not and how well you express yourself in life.

Sal Jefferies:

So when we think about mobility, it isn't just a nice like, oh,

Sal Jefferies:

it's kind of helpful to do my overhead presses or pick up my kids.

Sal Jefferies:

It's actually part and parcel of how does your mind experience

Sal Jefferies:

life because injury is

Gemma:

Yes.

Gemma:

That's a very nice way, but it injury is misery.

Sal Jefferies:

Yeah.

Sal Jefferies:

and, and I think this is, I really, really strongly want to get across is

Sal Jefferies:

that if our body is not working well, We are gonna have emotional issues.

Sal Jefferies:

So if we've got anxiety and depression, you know, the, the two ends of the

Sal Jefferies:

spectrum of the nervous system into over mobilize or shut down, well,

Sal Jefferies:

what's happening with our body?

Sal Jefferies:

Is it strong enough for what we do?

Sal Jefferies:

Is it supple enough for your lifestyle?

Sal Jefferies:

And if those answer those questions are, are both, no, you know, we are not,

Sal Jefferies:

that supper can't really do what I want to do, or I think you're strong enough

Sal Jefferies:

and you're not attending to it, you, you're really missing an opportunity

Sal Jefferies:

to not only physically be better, But emotionally and mentally be better.

Sal Jefferies:

And this is one of the, my bug bears with the sort of psychotherapeutic

Sal Jefferies:

heating arts, is that if we talk mind and psychology, wonderful, we, I can

Sal Jefferies:

do loads of work with all the cool psychology psychological models, but if

Sal Jefferies:

a person is unable to hold their body in an upright posture with stability

Sal Jefferies:

and confidence, physical, then we are missing the, the, the embodied mind

Gemma:

And I, I have to say like I think we really do miss a trick in the fitness

Gemma:

industry and also in the psychotherapy industry and the, psychological industry

Gemma:

not interconnecting this stuff enough.

Gemma:

yeah.

Gemma:

In, in the.

Gemma:

In the fitness industry, it's so saturated on aesthetic outputs, and in the moment,

Gemma:

just go hard, go home, put on the flashing lights, have an instructor scream at

Gemma:

you, and it's all about getting 110%.

Gemma:

And there sometimes are moments for that.

Gemma:

But it's all about listening, as you say to those subtle cues.

Gemma:

Listen to the story that your body's telling you, because it's always talking.

Gemma:

We choose a lot of the time not to listen or we've forgotten

Gemma:

how to listen in all honesty.

Gemma:

So I love that.

Gemma:

Yeah, really nice.

Sal Jefferies:

A common thing that we all share is we probably all use either

Sal Jefferies:

a computer or a mobile phone, or both.

Sal Jefferies:

Now, these are normal, right?

Sal Jefferies:

We use 'em all the time and we can get some long-winded debates about whether

Sal Jefferies:

they're good, bad, or indifferent.

Sal Jefferies:

One of the structural issues I see with, uh, mobile phone usage is the positioning.

Sal Jefferies:

And laptops can be similar by default, if you, if we are using a phone,

Sal Jefferies:

we'll have our chin tucked down, our upper body rolled forward, we'll

Sal Jefferies:

be in a slightly flexed position.

Sal Jefferies:

The overstretch on the neck, the stress on the neck, the, the holding of that

Sal Jefferies:

pattern for a long time reconfigures the architecture of the body.

Sal Jefferies:

Now, I've said this before, both on podcasts and to, uh, many clients,

Sal Jefferies:

if we are flex forward, that.

Sal Jefferies:

Implicitly is a threat response position for our body.

Sal Jefferies:

So if we are generally folded forwards a lot, cuz we're using

Sal Jefferies:

our phone maybe more than we need to, this can be a serious problem.

Sal Jefferies:

And then we start to talk about, well, why do I feel anxious?

Sal Jefferies:

Why do I feel nervous?

Sal Jefferies:

Why, why is my nervous system in a threat response?

Sal Jefferies:

Well, how is the shape of your body?

Sal Jefferies:

So for, for this very nature, cause we're not gonna get rid of phones,

Sal Jefferies:

they're, they're with us, right?

Sal Jefferies:

We use, I use mine all the time.

Sal Jefferies:

How can we use mobility to deal with that?

Sal Jefferies:

Very Very common issuer.

Sal Jefferies:

We're using a phone, but the position's technically bad for us

Sal Jefferies:

and has all these extra effects.

Sal Jefferies:

What would your guidance pjm on how to address that using mobility?

Gemma:

well.

Gemma:

Oh, how much time do I have?

Gemma:

Uh, yeah, so this is a really common one.

Gemma:

and I even have like corporate programs with my work, like desk dwellers.

Gemma:

There's literally a whole section on my portal.

Gemma:

that's.

Gemma:

All around essentially Tex neck, uh, that's sort of hunched

Gemma:

over forward, over position.

Gemma:

and there's even loads of exercises that we can do literally right now seated.

Gemma:

those joint rotations for the neck, the neck cars, taking the neck

Gemma:

through its active range of motion, even drawing the shoulders back and

Gemma:

drawing the shoulder blades back.

Gemma:

And dawn a little brace of the court.

Gemma:

I can see you literally doing it right now, and

Sal Jefferies:

Pat Gem, perhaps, can we, can we do it?

Sal Jefferies:

I, I, I'd like to join in, so if you'd like to guide, I'm gonna join

Sal Jefferies:

you And if, and if, if you are, if, uh, if, uh, for, if you're listening.

Sal Jefferies:

Uh, and it's safe for you to do so you're not driving or something like that.

Sal Jefferies:

I, I invite you to, to follow along because this is ubiquitous.

Sal Jefferies:

So let's see if we can have a direct experience from

Gemma:

So, I mean, like even if you, for example, are sitting and you've

Gemma:

got a video call and maybe you've taken the actual video of the video call

Gemma:

off, but you're at work and you're just listening, you're in a conference

Gemma:

or something, you can literally be sitting in the seat right now and

Gemma:

think about softening the ribs.

Gemma:

So the ribs, drawing them down towards the hips.

Gemma:

Drawing the belly button in.

Gemma:

And then maybe in your next exhale, let's focus on drawing the shoulders back.

Gemma:

And together those shoulder blades like you're trying to hold a little tennis ball

Gemma:

in between your shoulder blades, there's still that little brace of the core.

Gemma:

And then in your next exhale, let's imagine that there's somebody at the top

Gemma:

of your head, like a little puppet master, and there's a string coming out and

Gemma:

lifting you up from the top of your head.

Gemma:

And then let's tuck the chin in.

Gemma:

And back.

Gemma:

So tuck the chin in and then draw your head back like it's trying to

Gemma:

push up against the back of your chair or the back of a wall, and feel

Gemma:

the length in the back of the neck.

Gemma:

Feel the spine stacked on top of each other and feel

Gemma:

the whole core and the whole.

Gemma:

Center of your body and the shoulders drop down from the ears.

Gemma:

It's a whole new position that you probably haven't sat in for

Gemma:

about three hours if you've been already at the desk all morning.

Gemma:

Right.

Gemma:

Which is pretty much what we've been doing, I'd imagine.

Gemma:

Uh, so even that moment, like taking a few breaths there and being aware of

Gemma:

it, suddenly whenever you relax back down into it, you don't automatically

Gemma:

fall back into this sludge, but you're a more relaxed, upright position.

Gemma:

And doing neck cars.

Gemma:

So taking your neck through the active range of motion.

Gemma:

I start every single one of my classes with it, whether they're doing a

Gemma:

running class or a hit class or a yoga class, because I think that we all, I.

Gemma:

Spend a lot of time looking down at our phone, hunched forward,

Gemma:

so opening up those shoulders and opening up the neck a bit.

Gemma:

Sometimes whenever I do this, it literally sounds like a crisp packet

Gemma:

getting scrunched up in my hand.

Gemma:

Like you could hear all the, the creaking and the popping, and as long as it

Gemma:

feels okay, you know, that's, That's great because it's everything being

Gemma:

like, oh, I've needed this for a while.

Gemma:

Thank you, thank you for this.

Gemma:

so they're like, , that's a simple little like movement that you can do.

Gemma:

Super small, super subtle.

Gemma:

You don't really need to, you don't need to change your clothes, you

Gemma:

don't need to warm up neck rotations.

Gemma:

Don't need to warm up.

Gemma:

Change your clothes.

Gemma:

So easy.

Gemma:

And for the upper back, I'd say one of my favorite exercises to do at

Gemma:

the desk is to literally get up and put your hands across the top of

Gemma:

the chair and hinge your hips back.

Gemma:

Let your head dive in between your arms, so nearly like

Gemma:

your ears are by your biceps.

Gemma:

And then let yourself like.

Gemma:

Sinked on.

Gemma:

Every time you exhale, allow your head and your nose come a little

Gemma:

bit closer towards the floor and feel that upper back go.

Gemma:

Oh gosh, I've been waiting for this.

Gemma:

Oh, where have you been?

Gemma:

Yeah, so yeah, de desk dwelling exercises.

Gemma:

So many of them,

Sal Jefferies:

Yeah, Thank you, Gemma That's a really helpful set of

Sal Jefferies:

exercises to do something that we can do quickly, immediately, and frequently.

Sal Jefferies:

I want to add, and I, I'm sensing you're the same quick fixes, so

Sal Jefferies:

there are quick things to do.

Sal Jefferies:

You can change things fairly quickly, but a quick fix to solving your neck

Sal Jefferies:

issue or your back issue or your shoulder issue, there aren't quick fixes as such.

Sal Jefferies:

It's about building a sustainable.

Sal Jefferies:

Uh, practice and sustainable body, and of course sustainable joints

Sal Jefferies:

if you're gonna hit the pavement and start pushing the miles.

Sal Jefferies:

If you're gonna do, you know, contact sport, if you're gonna lift heavy,

Sal Jefferies:

then if your joints aren't strong and stable, something's gonna give.

Sal Jefferies:

And I think the three spots that we all need to look at for a neck,

Sal Jefferies:

shoulders, Uh, so probably four spots.

Sal Jefferies:

So neck, shoulders, lower, back knees.

Sal Jefferies:

They, they seem to be the hotspots where there are issues cuz there's

Sal Jefferies:

a lot of load goes through a lot of transmission of force.

Sal Jefferies:

So we are transmission of force.

Sal Jefferies:

Uh, and thinking about that, how can we use cars?

Sal Jefferies:

So is it complete articular rotation?

Sal Jefferies:

I believe that means, yeah.

Sal Jefferies:

So how can we use cars?

Sal Jefferies:

So if we're thinking about, okay, I'm starting to understand mobility is

Sal Jefferies:

strength, stability, and flexibility as one whole system, but how can we use cars?

Sal Jefferies:

To really help support those key joints, knees, low back, shoulders, neck.

Sal Jefferies:

How are cars gonna help the stability and the safety?

Sal Jefferies:

So when we're putting, loading through it, they're gonna be good to go.

Sal Jefferies:

What's, what's your, what's your guidance on them?

Gemma:

Well, firstly I'd like to say that like joint rotations, in general,

Gemma:

the reason why I love them is because they're literally accessible to everyone

Gemma:

at any, it doesn't matter what your range of motion is, anyone can do it.

Gemma:

So whether you are a 95 year old, Chair based lady who maybe has got lots

Gemma:

of arthritis, rheumatoid arthritis, you can still do joint rotations.

Gemma:

It will look very different from a six year old potentially doing joint

Gemma:

rotations, but that's the beauty of it, because it's accessible to everybody.

Gemma:

You're moving to your own range of motion.

Gemma:

Joint rotations.

Gemma:

I love them because you're essentially, Nu bringing nutrients first and

Gemma:

foremost into the joint by bringing in that fresh blood supply, bringing

Gemma:

in that, getting that salvi fluid around the joints moving and grooving.

Gemma:

And if again, we think about sitting on a desk all day.

Gemma:

Shoulders are frozen, neck is frozen, hips are frozen, knees are frozen.

Gemma:

You get up and you think, Hey, Oh, it's time for my dog walk, or it's

Gemma:

time to go and run, or it's time to go and play tennis, and then suddenly

Gemma:

you just go from, okay, I've been sitting at the desk for five to seven

Gemma:

hours straight into throwing a ball in the air and doing a big serve, and

Gemma:

then running around to tennis court.

Gemma:

Then the joints are like, ah.

Gemma:

so it's a really great warmup exercise in terms of getting all the blood flow

Gemma:

and all the nutrients going to the joints, but also bringing nutrients,

Gemma:

bringing blood flow to the joints is essentially giving your joints fuel.

Gemma:

And we all know what it feels like to be given fuel food wise.

Gemma:

The joints are exactly the same.

Gemma:

The blood is full of all the goodies that the joints really

Gemma:

like for longevity and health.

Gemma:

So without wanting to go into it super scientifically, feed your joints.

Gemma:

Then whenever we take our, our joints through the active range of motion,

Gemma:

again, we're looking at increasing them.

Gemma:

So even if we were to use the example of sitting at the chair and doing wrist

Gemma:

cars, wrist rotations, probably after one very strong mindful joint rotation, your

Gemma:

wrists might even be quite icky because you're suddenly doing new movements.

Gemma:

That you haven't done with your wrists because you've probably just had it frozen

Gemma:

over a mouse or a keyboard for an hour, and again, maybe you haven't really moved

Gemma:

through your wrists very much because the elbow will come in and help and

Gemma:

the shoulder will come in and help you isolate that joint, and then you actually

Gemma:

see what movement that you have within there and then start to increase it.

Gemma:

More movement, more range of motion, more life.

Gemma:

That's essentially what I sort of say.

Gemma:

If you've got more movement in your body, you've got more life, if you've got more.

Gemma:

Ability to have more movement.

Gemma:

Like we mentioned before, psychologically you are feeling much more able to do more

Gemma:

things with your life, much less limited.

Gemma:

Suddenly you're feeling more confident in yourself and your body

Gemma:

and it all is really interlinked.

Gemma:

So more movement, more life joint cars.

Gemma:

Is that a good, good enough plug for you?

Sal Jefferies:

I love it.

Sal Jefferies:

That's so good.

Sal Jefferies:

Yeah, and we're gonna kinda, I, I'm thinking back to when I've been un

Sal Jefferies:

uh, injured and unwell and I told you I had a shoulder injury and

Sal Jefferies:

that's been a massive challenge.

Sal Jefferies:

I've had to really, I've had to back off.

Sal Jefferies:

So as a back off strength work had to back off a lot of things,

Sal Jefferies:

and the impact of that was huge.

Sal Jefferies:

Now, of course, I'm in a place where I do this professionally and personally.

Sal Jefferies:

So I, I love to learn.

Sal Jefferies:

It didn't make it easy though.

Sal Jefferies:

It didn't make it easy to go back to doing tiny two kilo, uh, shoulder

Sal Jefferies:

rotation movements when I could probably overhead press a very large sum.

Sal Jefferies:

Now the numbers are arbitrary.

Sal Jefferies:

Really, it's just about can I, what can I do that's healthy and interesting and fun?

Sal Jefferies:

Cuz all training for me is fun.

Sal Jefferies:

I've said this many times to people be like, wow, you are so motivated.

Sal Jefferies:

I'm like, no, I'm having fun.

Sal Jefferies:

Because if you could find the joy in movement, Which I

Sal Jefferies:

think is absolutely natural.

Sal Jefferies:

What ki when, when were we kids, we weren't, we were always

Sal Jefferies:

running about doing stuff.

Sal Jefferies:

I, I mean, no.

Sal Jefferies:

Younger generation now might be more screen orientated, but generally

Sal Jefferies:

children are playful and they're moving.

Sal Jefferies:

It's utterly natural.

Sal Jefferies:

And yet as an adult it's so easy to become sedentary and not do anything.

Sal Jefferies:

And then that can create aches, pains.

Sal Jefferies:

My term is misery.

Sal Jefferies:

You know, you don't wanna be walking around feeling miserable and in aches

Sal Jefferies:

and pains and medicated all day.

Sal Jefferies:

You want to walk around, ideally as well as you can,

Sal Jefferies:

because that affects your body.

Sal Jefferies:

It affects your mood and it affects your mind.

Sal Jefferies:

And that then affects everything you do.

Sal Jefferies:

So there's such a, such a connection between all these parts, which I think

Sal Jefferies:

is absolutely vital to, to understand.

Sal Jefferies:

Why bother doing the rotations?

Sal Jefferies:

That's why it's all

Sal Jefferies:

interrelated.

Gemma:

I'll have to say like if you need a little bit of motivation for

Gemma:

it, because you're just like, oh yeah, Gemma joint rotations, yada, yada.

Gemma:

If you, if you genuinely find love in movement, because I always say

Gemma:

like, Personally, I really tried, whenever I teach my clients to really

Gemma:

intrinsically enjoy movement, we moved from, we moved from a place

Gemma:

of pleasure rather than punishment.

Gemma:

Essentially, a lot of people within the fitness industry

Gemma:

nearly see it as a punishment.

Gemma:

Oh, I had a cake at the weekend.

Gemma:

I had a bit massive blowout at the weekend.

Gemma:

I'm gonna go to the gym and just sit in a cross trader for 45 minutes, sweat it out.

Gemma:

Uh, and it's a, it's a bit of a toxic relationship.

Gemma:

And then, you know, why then would you want to be like, oh, I'm gonna do

Gemma:

joint rotations so that I can keep.

Gemma:

Standing on that cross trainer that I hate for two hours every week.

Gemma:

Whereas if, for example, playing tennis or dancing or hula hooping,

Gemma:

or chasing after your dog or running after your kids is what brings you joy.

Gemma:

Doing your joint rotations or doing your mobility so you can

Gemma:

keep that enriched moment in your life and that joy in your life.

Gemma:

Suddenly the purpose becomes very different because you're

Gemma:

not doing it because, Hey, I don't want arthritis, which, yes,

Gemma:

it helps prevent it in the future.

Gemma:

That's a very good extra thing, but right now, in this moment in time, you're doing

Gemma:

it so that you can, in not just two weeks time, think about that tennis tournament

Gemma:

or whatever your sport is, your triathlon.

Gemma:

You can think about.

Gemma:

Being a veteran in a, in your tennis club, and whenever you're

Gemma:

like 60 or 70, that's the aim.

Gemma:

That's the hope.

Gemma:

That's the dream, right?

Gemma:

Or whether you wanna weigh in your age category as a

Gemma:

veteran triathlon or whatever.

Gemma:

So I always think if you move from a place that's not of punishment

Gemma:

with exercise, really feel what intrinsically motivates you.

Gemma:

Those days where it might be a little bit less motivating, or cuz motivation

Gemma:

does come and go, then you know that actually you're gonna be better for it.

Gemma:

You're not doing like three minutes of burpees because you feel like you

Gemma:

should do three minutes of burpees.

Gemma:

You're doing it because you want to.

Gemma:

I mean, not many people do wanna do three minutes of burpees, but

Gemma:

there are some people, so yeah.

Gemma:

Yeah.

Gemma:

That's you.

Gemma:

I love it.

Gemma:

I love it.

Sal Jefferies:

Yeah, I really wanna speak to this point.

Sal Jefferies:

It, it's, again, it's ubiquitous and we have to really careful with

Sal Jefferies:

this sort of subtle cultural thing because it, it's, we just absorb it.

Sal Jefferies:

But this punishment model, which seems to be very pervasive and it's

Sal Jefferies:

incredibly toxic, such as, uh, I've over overeaten, I've over drank, or

Sal Jefferies:

I'm carrying a little body weight, or I'm undernourished, whatever it

Sal Jefferies:

is, I need to punish myself into it.

Sal Jefferies:

That is such a.

Sal Jefferies:

It is such an unhealthy mental model to bring to movement of any nature and.

Sal Jefferies:

Who says you need to be punished?

Sal Jefferies:

Who came out with that?

Sal Jefferies:

First thing I would do when I'm coaching someone is we challenge that, that

Sal Jefferies:

belief immediately, cuz that's toxic and erroneous, it's full of errors.

Sal Jefferies:

You do not need to punish yourself if you've, let's say,

Sal Jefferies:

had a blowout the weekend.

Sal Jefferies:

If you are moving, that's a nourishment, that's an investment.

Sal Jefferies:

That's a play that is not this task master beating you up.

Sal Jefferies:

And, and I know women get a bad rap on this.

Sal Jefferies:

It's, it's even more pervasive, uh, for women about you, you, the shoulds.

Sal Jefferies:

What you should do and, and it's, it just needs to stop.

Sal Jefferies:

So take punishment out of your vocabulary and your mind as best you can, and

Sal Jefferies:

look to find joy and playfulness.

Sal Jefferies:

It.

Sal Jefferies:

It's really, I'm gonna say if most people said to me, would you like more joy?

Sal Jefferies:

I don't think I or most people can go, no, thanks.

Sal Jefferies:

I'm

Sal Jefferies:

good.

Sal Jefferies:

I'm gonna be a bit

Gemma:

My cup is full.

Gemma:

I

Sal Jefferies:

I don't want any

Gemma:

possibly have anymore space

Gemma:

for this.

Sal Jefferies:

many more.

Sal Jefferies:

Yeah.

Sal Jefferies:

I'd rather just be kind, miserable for a bit.

Sal Jefferies:

Alright, we're being playful here.

Sal Jefferies:

But, you know, joy is one of the magic parts of life and it's so easy suddenly

Sal Jefferies:

as an adult to, to kind of get caught up in busyness, whether you are a

Sal Jefferies:

parent, whether you're a business owner, professional, and get caught up in the,

Sal Jefferies:

the, the seriousness of adulthood and.

Sal Jefferies:

It's a big problem if you're not missing joy, cuz this is a one way show.

Sal Jefferies:

You know, we, you can't sort of go back, oh, I'll do the next

Sal Jefferies:

10 years and be more joyful.

Sal Jefferies:

It's like, no, you can't go back.

Sal Jefferies:

That's not an option.

Sal Jefferies:

And as a midlife, uh, human being as I am now in the middle of life,

Sal Jefferies:

whatever that might be, I know that my body needs a different treatment.

Sal Jefferies:

I know that my mind needs different treatment and I know that if I don't stay

Sal Jefferies:

mobile and if I don't exercise and move.

Sal Jefferies:

There are our ho hosts of problems.

Sal Jefferies:

Now I wanna speak to something you said at the top of the show and, I

Sal Jefferies:

have an autoimmune condition as well.

Sal Jefferies:

Now autoimmune is, is, is a whole subject, which we probably can't

Sal Jefferies:

go into too much, but if you have a condition, it's tempting to.

Sal Jefferies:

To be challenged by that.

Sal Jefferies:

So my autoimmune condition is, uh, what is called ulcerative colitis.

Sal Jefferies:

So my along will Ulcerate and it's, uh, it's a horrible condition.

Sal Jefferies:

I've had it for 40 plus years.

Sal Jefferies:

Its origin was in trauma, uh, as most, uh, as according to gavel Matt's work.

Sal Jefferies:

Most autoimmune conditions are based in some kind of traumatic event.

Sal Jefferies:

Now, we are not gonna get too much into this, but, so I've done my work on that

Sal Jefferies:

and most of the time, It's in remission, but I was training a while back.

Sal Jefferies:

I was in CrossFit, uh, at this time, doing a really strong CrossFit program.

Sal Jefferies:

And, and I had what's called a flare up.

Sal Jefferies:

So I literally couldn't do what I needed to do.

Sal Jefferies:

I went one session and let's say I was, I, I don't know, Uh, back squatting 60 kilos.

Sal Jefferies:

I can't remember what it was.

Sal Jefferies:

Let's say it was 60 kilos.

Sal Jefferies:

That very week when I had this flare, I couldn't even lift 40, so

Sal Jefferies:

I was down down to 60% of energy.

Sal Jefferies:

The week after.

Sal Jefferies:

I couldn't even lift half of what I lifted two weeks ago.

Sal Jefferies:

And, and this, uh, episode lasted like six months, so I was wipes hell.

Sal Jefferies:

And it's very tempting if you have a condition like

Sal Jefferies:

that to be really despondent.

Sal Jefferies:

So I, you know, I'm, I'm with you if that's, that's what's going on for you.

Sal Jefferies:

But one of the things I'd say is it's all about, well, where am I at

Sal Jefferies:

today?

Sal Jefferies:

So if you have an autoimmune condition, maybe your mom coming back

Sal Jefferies:

from pregnancy, maybe you're new to exercise and you haven't been working

Sal Jefferies:

out for a while, where are you today?

Sal Jefferies:

What is your body okay with?

Sal Jefferies:

We're not doing punishment, we're doing play.

Sal Jefferies:

We're doing joy, we're doing respect, and it might look like a 10 minute workout, as

Sal Jefferies:

you've already suggested with your climb.

Sal Jefferies:

It might look like a brisk walk for the next month and then into a gentle jog.

Sal Jefferies:

But where am I at today?

Sal Jefferies:

I think has so much more power and compassion to work with whatever condition

Sal Jefferies:

we we just unique people have, rather than it be a problem and a stopping point.

Sal Jefferies:

So I, I hope that's, uh, if, if you, if anyone's got a condition and they're

Sal Jefferies:

thinking, oh God, yeah, that all sounds nice, but I've got this problem, then

Sal Jefferies:

there's always a way to do something, you know, from the small ranges you've

Sal Jefferies:

alluded to already, Jim, to, to, to, to go into bigger, over long term.

Gemma:

My little thought process with that was right, because obviously, yeah,

Gemma:

I've, I've had definitely flareups in the past as well, where suddenly I,

Gemma:

you know, would go from running, uh, a marathon to then suddenly not even being

Gemma:

able to walk a kilometer, in the past.

Gemma:

And some of it is the fact that I really hadn't had that body mind connection.

Gemma:

and I really had.

Gemma:

To process a lot of stuff myself with autoimmune conditions, but also, you

Gemma:

know, my advice to people is rather than focus on the stuff that you can't

Gemma:

do, focus on the stuff that you can do.

Gemma:

So that was for me, a lot of mobility training, a lot of even lying on

Gemma:

the mat and doing deep diaphragmatic breaths and listening to what.

Gemma:

The pain was because pain is also incredibly multifaceted and where it's

Gemma:

coming from and how we are interpreting it, and really just honing in and

Gemma:

tuning in on it, and that takes time.

Gemma:

And rather than me being like, oh, well, you know, I entered this half marathon

Gemma:

and now I can't do it, or now I've wasted all this money on this half iron man that

Gemma:

I've been training for for six months.

Gemma:

I was like, what can I do today?

Gemma:

Okay, well I can go and have a drink with my friend, uh, like a cup of coffee with

Gemma:

my friend, which, you know, I wouldn't have been able to have done last week.

Gemma:

So I'm gonna walk there and that's gonna be my activity.

Gemma:

So it's, for me, it was flexibly inflexible, an

Gemma:

incredibly flexible program.

Gemma:

But there was always some time every day dedicated to whatever movement I could

Gemma:

do, whether it was joint rotations, whether it was stretching, whether it was

Gemma:

walk, whether it was some lightweights, and knowing that, hey, when I've got

Gemma:

this high level of inflammation, high impact activity, it's not happening.

Gemma:

Big strength stuff.

Gemma:

It's not happening.

Gemma:

But I can maybe do some body weight stuff.

Gemma:

Maybe I can.

Gemma:

Maybe I can.

Gemma:

But yeah, come see . It this time will pass.

Gemma:

If I listen to my body sooner, it will pass sooner.

Gemma:

Maybe sometimes it doesn't for those, but for me in that moment, it, it did.

Gemma:

And yeah.

Gemma:

Listen, like we said before, listen to the story your body's telling you,

Gemma:

especially autoimmunes like, like us.

Gemma:

Yeah.

Sal Jefferies:

Abso, absolutely.

Sal Jefferies:

Yeah.

Sal Jefferies:

Really, uh, really, uh, wise words and such a, such a key point to kind

Sal Jefferies:

of suggest that if, cuz if it isn't working out for you, if there are

Sal Jefferies:

these issues, whether it's health, uh, autoimmune, whether it's an injury,

Sal Jefferies:

lifestyle, start with where you are.

Sal Jefferies:

But start, I think that's a distinction.

Sal Jefferies:

Start with compassion.

Sal Jefferies:

But start, do something, whatever that is, but do, and I think the

Sal Jefferies:

distinction between not doing something and doing something,

Sal Jefferies:

it's often a little bit of effort.

Sal Jefferies:

You're like, okay, I'm gonna roll out a mat, do some, do some shoulder work, do

Sal Jefferies:

some mobility, maybe do a little bit of body work, but it's commit to something.

Sal Jefferies:

Now I'd like to bring this all to a sort of, conclusion.

Sal Jefferies:

So for, we've gone a lot into all the, the benefits, the impact, the

Sal Jefferies:

ecology of mobility, how it affects both fitness, health, and mindset

Sal Jefferies:

and, and, and everything we do.

Sal Jefferies:

What final takeaways, suggestions, or processes would you suggest that someone

Sal Jefferies:

who's, uh, either want us to learn more about mobility or to really get into

Sal Jefferies:

it, what would you suggest they do?

Gemma:

I would suggest what I mentioned for my desk dwellers.

Gemma:

Start low, go slow.

Gemma:

It doesn't have to be a one hour mobility practice every day.

Gemma:

It can literally be a five minute practice in at your desk, getting as a desk

Gemma:

break, maybe a warmup before a workout that you hadn't considered before.

Gemma:

Start just adding these little bits of mindful movements into your body

Gemma:

because this will then start to be the habit that will bring the change.

Gemma:

Like me flossing, I didn't floss at all until like three years ago, and I put in

Gemma:

New Year's resolution, the only New Year's resolution that I'd ever kept, and then

Gemma:

I went back to my dentist and my dentist was like, oh, what's happened here?

Gemma:

She's been flossing, and that was the only feedback I needed.

Gemma:

Not always floss, but it's only two minutes of a day that I floss and

Gemma:

that little, little healthy habit.

Gemma:

Has, you know, had a big impact on my oral hygiene, and it's a very convoluted

Gemma:

example, but it doesn't take a lot to.

Gemma:

To ha to make a big difference.

Gemma:

And that is the beauty of mobility.

Gemma:

You need a bit of patience.

Gemma:

It might not be the most sexy thing in the world.

Gemma:

You might not be able to see that extra seven degree of extra range

Gemma:

of motion in your shoulders, but I promise you that your body will, and

Gemma:

mobility is sometimes that thing that.

Gemma:

It might not be able, you might not see the benefit straight away, but

Gemma:

then whenever you stop it and then you remember what it feels like to be locked

Gemma:

up again and those shoulders, that pain between the shoulder blades, that egg

Gemma:

and the neck, and then you suddenly realize that this stuff is golden.

Gemma:

so I say give yourself the gift of mobility and, uh, give your appreciate

Gemma:

where you're at with your body right now.

Gemma:

Start slow, start low, build it up, and, uh, thank us later.

Sal Jefferies:

Yeah.

Sal Jefferies:

That's lovely.

Sal Jefferies:

Yeah, absolutely.

Sal Jefferies:

It's, it's, yeah, , put it in, uh, I have a nice, simple process, which

Sal Jefferies:

is start from the ground up, so when I get up in the morning, well, if

Sal Jefferies:

you're standing, it's the ankles.

Sal Jefferies:

Yeah, so move the ankles, move the toes.

Sal Jefferies:

Then I work to the knees, then I worked to the hips, then I worked to

Sal Jefferies:

the lower back and then I worked to the mid-thoracic and some twisting

Sal Jefferies:

up to the shoulder, up to the neck.

Sal Jefferies:

Uh, I've done it for years.

Sal Jefferies:

I sort of roll out a bed, just stand up and do it.

Sal Jefferies:

It's quite gently in the morning cuz I'm not that warm.

Sal Jefferies:

So it's, it's nice and gentle.

Sal Jefferies:

And when I go to the gym, so I was at the gym this morning, I'll do

Sal Jefferies:

that whole kind of in the warmup.

Sal Jefferies:

It's like, what am I doing this morning?

Sal Jefferies:

It was pushing work and jump work.

Sal Jefferies:

So it's like, well what do we need to mobilize with the stuff

Sal Jefferies:

in the shoulders, the back.

Sal Jefferies:

Just get in there and as you beautifully articulated, put it in non-negotiable.

Sal Jefferies:

Two minutes every session or every time you do a warmup, but

Sal Jefferies:

repeat day in, day out and the the benefits will always compound.

Sal Jefferies:

It's a little like compound interest in money.

Sal Jefferies:

It's exactly the same in the body.

Sal Jefferies:

Repeat daily.

Sal Jefferies:

You all feel great.

Sal Jefferies:

Amazing, Jim.

Sal Jefferies:

Well, I know, we've got so much, uh, knowledge on mobility.

Sal Jefferies:

You've got a huge experience and I'm so happy to have spoken to you and learn a

Sal Jefferies:

little bit more from your perspective at mobility and to, to speak with you today.

Sal Jefferies:

So thank you for joining

Sal Jefferies:

me.

Sal Jefferies:

Uh, we'll

Gemma:

you.

Gemma:

Thank you.

Sal Jefferies:

I put uh, gem's details in the show notes, uh, if you wanna get

Sal Jefferies:

in touch with Gem and obviously myself.

Sal Jefferies:

so dear listener.

Sal Jefferies:

If you are seated how you're sitting, could you roll those

Sal Jefferies:

shoulders back and down?

Sal Jefferies:

Could you loosen your neck?

Sal Jefferies:

Maybe you need to get up and go for a little walk and loosen up those

Sal Jefferies:

hips, but mobility and movement will affect your mood and your mind, so it's

Sal Jefferies:

nourishment for the soul, let's say.

Sal Jefferies:

Dear listener, I will speak to you on the next one, Gemma.

Sal Jefferies:

Thank you for your

Gemma:

Thank you.

Gemma:

See you guys later.

Sal Jefferies:

See ya.

Sal Jefferies:

Thank you so much for listening.

Sal Jefferies:

If you enjoyed the episode, please subscribe and if a friend

Sal Jefferies:

would benefit from hearing this, do send it on to them as well.

Sal Jefferies:

If you would like to get in touch yourself, then you can go to my website,

Sal Jefferies:

which is sal jeffries.com, spelled S A L J E F E R I E s sal jeffries.com.

Sal Jefferies:

Hit the get in touch link and there you can send me a direct message.

Sal Jefferies:

If you'd like to go one step further and learn whether coaching could help

Sal Jefferies:

you overcome a challenge or a block in your life, then do reach out and

Sal Jefferies:

I offer a call where we can discuss how this may be able to help you.

Show artwork for Mindset, Mood & Movement

About the Podcast

Mindset, Mood & Movement
Human performance podcast for life and business
Feeling stuck, stressed and exhausted is bad for you, your health and your business. But it doesn’t have to be like this.

Sal Jefferies is a coach who helps founders overcome anxiety, build confidence and become healthy. This podcast will help you feel calm, confident and strong in life and business.

Sal has a unique coaching philosophy which integrates psychology, emotional regulation and embodied action. This podcast aims to share knowledge, skill and strategies from these 3 interwoven areas - mindset, mood & movement.

Each fortnight, Sal will be in conversation with a guest from a specialist field of human performance and behaviour. The week in between will be Sal's own shorter episode where he's goes deep into various topics - all created to give you the tools to become calm, confident & strong.


About your host

Profile picture for Sal Jefferies

Sal Jefferies

I believe in helping people become free - free of anxiety; to be authentic; to not worry of what others think of you. Free to create, to love and free to be calm, confident and strong.

I understand what it’s like to find life difficult, to deal with challenges and to feel lost; that’s why I over the last 15 years I have immersed myself in yoga, psychology and human behaviour. I have been on a journey of deep change and growth and I know at the core of most life choices is the desire for freedom and peace. I work with people who think deeply and feel deeply and looking to change, evolve and grow.

I don’t take myself too seriously and I bring a light and positive energy to my work. When I’m not coaching, I love reading and learning about anything to do with the human experience. I am also super active and movement is a big part of my life - running, swimming, strength training, doing yoga or enjoying being out with my dogs.