Episode 36

How working with the body changes your experience in life with Tom Waldron

Published on: 25th April, 2024

Summary:

This podcast conversation is with Tom Waldron, a movement specialist who works with biomechanics and the body. Our discussion revolves around the importance of understanding and working with the body to improve overall well-being, performance, and life experience. Tom emphasises the interconnectedness of physical, mental, and emotional aspects, and how addressing issues in one area can positively impact other areas.

There are some fantastic things to learn - key points below!

Key Points:

1. Understanding the schema of the body and knowing where the joints are located is crucial for proper movement and function.

2. Applying the right amount of tension in the body is necessary for optimal performance and avoiding excessive strain or injury.

3. Addressing physical pain or limitations can also alleviate stress and improve emotional well-being.

4. Engaging in movements and exercises that complement the body's natural functions and evolutionary design can enhance overall health and vitality.

5. Managing energy levels through proper sleep, posture, and mindfulness practices is essential for overall well-being.

6. Developing awareness of energy mismanagement and addressing it can help optimise energy utilisation.


Show Notes:

0:00 - Introduction to Tom Waldron and the topic of working with the body.

3:00 - Tom's approach to understanding a client's goals and needs.

5:00 - The interconnectedness of physical, mental, and emotional well-being.

7:00 - Understanding and addressing psychosomatic aspects of pain.

9:00 - Giving clients the experience of what they want and teaching them how to reproduce it.

12:00 - The importance of knowing where the hip joints are located for proper movement.

16:00 - Working with forces and tension in the body.

21:00 - The influence of thoughts and visualization on physical movements.

24:00 - Addressing lower back pain by modifying movements and increasing tolerance.

28:00 - Challenging the orthodoxy of diminished health and mobility with age.

33:00 - Motivating clients by highlighting the undesirable consequences of inaction.

37:00 - The privilege of having an able body and the ability to move.

41:00 - Focusing on the body's natural functions, such as walking and throwing.

45:00 - Energy management and minimizing energy leakage through optimal alignment.

48:00 - The importance of sleep and rest for energy management and injury prevention.



Get in touch with Sal

If this episode has caught your attention and you wish to learn more, then please contact me. I offer a free 20 min call where we can discuss a challenge your facing and how I may be able to help you.

Get in touch with Tom

Tom how's the range of fascinating workshops and trainings. Please let Tom know you've listened to this episode with me. You can contact him here.

Transcript
Tom Waldron:

Sometimes, you never have those moments where you just realise,

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"Oh, being alive is really weird."

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Like you almost catch yourself, because

you get busy in your day, and you're

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like, "I don't do taxes, whatever."

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Like you're late for something.

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You just get sucked into just

like the, for lack of a better

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word, I guess the rat race.

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Sal Jefferies: So if we don't know where

our body is, how do we know where we are?

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It's such a big thing with

the embodied movement, which I

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really push embodied cognition.

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A brain does not function inside a

black skull, dark, nothing going on,

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without inputs from the body, from

the sense receptors, from everything

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that's going on in the environment.

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Our body is actually feeding up

to our brain, but our experience

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of self, do I move well?

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Do I feel creaky?

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Do I say, "Oh, my back's killing me?"

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Or do I walk with a sense

of power in my posture?

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And I love what you said there is if

you don't know the schema of your body,

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whether you're deadlifting or trying to be

more confident, you're in trouble because

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you don't know where the right things are.

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How do we manage tension or apply

tension appropriately in your experience?

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Tom Waldron: Yeah, I think

there's two questions.

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There's one is how do we do that?

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And then how do we apply it?

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So I think like one thing that I do

all the time now, which I've just found

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to be the most effective approach is

give someone the experience of what

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they want and then teach them how they

can keep or reproduce that experience.

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I think the more you learn about,

again, the body, and it's funny

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how these things transcend culture.

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We know, for example, that your

postural system is governed by your

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serotonergic system, and you can trace

that system, a third of a billion

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years back in the past, because you

can look at certain animals and you can

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see how that same, neurophysiological

relationship governs their posture and

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also governs the level of serotonin.

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Sal Jefferies: What do you see in a body

that you're also seeing in their life?

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Hello and welcome.

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Today I'm joined by my guest, Tom

Waldron, who is a movement specialist.

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He works with biomechanics and

all cool things with the body.

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Now this is really interesting because

Tom shares an interest in the body like

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I do, but in a much more, detailed way.

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But we were talking recently and I was

absolutely intrigued with his work about

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how working with the body changes how we

experience life and do things in life.

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We're going to get into this.

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A big thing is if you've got a lot

of challenges going on mentally,

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getting into the body is going to be

a massive Massive benefit for you.

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So we shall unpack.

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Tom, welcome to the show.

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It's good to see you, mate.

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Tom Waldron: Thanks for

having me Sam, thank you.

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Sal Jefferies: Cool.

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Okay.

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So give us a little context around what

do you do that's different with people

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that that's movement orientated that

really helps them connect with their body?

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Tom Waldron: I would say probably

with that the main thing, and you

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could even say this is the difference

between potentially an instructor and

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a coach, is just initially finding

out why the person has come to see

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you in the first place, and that's

definitely not unique to me by any means.

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A good therapist will do that, or a

good clinician will do that, but I

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suppose the first thing is finding out

what that person's goals are, because

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that's the most important thing, and

then Respectfully, with my background,

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if I feel like, you know what, you would

benefit from this a bit more, or benefit

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from this a bit more, we can have

that discussion and then move forward,

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with some interventions that would help

with that as well, if that makes sense.

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a bit of what they want, and then a

bit of what I think they also need.

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Sal Jefferies: Yeah, really nice.

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That's a nice way of kind of

meeting the middle, isn't it?

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figuring out what that person's

requirements are, what their pain points

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are, and understanding their version

of the world, plus your, knowledge

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overlaying, which is, really, really nice.

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It's so interesting with that body stuff.

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I'm an S& C trainer as well now, as a

psychotherapist, as a mindset coach, and

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the more I work with my own physiology,

my own body, and the more I work with

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other people's, the more I see that,

If we are looking at human performance,

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if we're looking at mental being and

emotional well being, we really,

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really want to be including the body.

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And it's often been a

secondary thing, hasn't it?

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That I'll do a workout after

work or I'm too busy to exercise.

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and I would say, actually, there's so

much data and knowledge now that says

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if you're not exercising, if you're

not physically well, Your business

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isn't going to go well, your health is

probably going to be damaged in some

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way and your relationships are impacted.

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So it has this whole kind of

cascade of influence, doesn't it?

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Whether it's negative or positive.

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Now, what are you seeing when

someone comes to you with a problem?

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I can only imagine they come Oh, I've got

a sore shoulder or my back's killing me.

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one of the classics.

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What do you see in a body that

you're also seeing in their life?

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What do you notice in those parallels?

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Tom Waldron: Yeah, I think one of the

things can definitely be, let's say if

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we just talk about pain for a moment.

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I think at this point, if you're not

addressing any psychosomatic or lifestyle

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aspects to someone's pain problem, it

doesn't really matter where the pain

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actually is, then you're probably

on some level not finishing the job.

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So I think, one thing that's always

good is you're always trying to

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maintain some form of retention.

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motivation with people.

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So obviously if someone comes in

with a painful shoulder, one of the

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first things you want to do is try

and reduce or minimise the symptoms.

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So they get what they want, and then

along the way you also might help

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them with what they need to make

those positive changes longer lasting.

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So for example, I guess a more

obvious example, from my experience,

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has been lower back pain.

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so one of, probably the second or

third question I'll ask someone

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these days is, how's your sleep?

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These days, how are you sleeping?

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So quality of sleep and also quantity.

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I'm definitely not a sleep expert.

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I've listened to people

who are sleep experts.

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but there's definitely enough,

research to convince me that

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yeah, if someone is undersleep.

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That's going to really ramp up,

their amygdala and that's going to

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increase their pain sensitivity.

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Not that they're sensitive as

a person, just literally the

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sensitivity of the nervous system.

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And so addressing things like

rest is also really important.

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I used to say tension, I'm always

changing my, dialogue around tension.

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I used to think tension was bad.

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but as tension means many things.

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You can talk about the tension of the

connective tissue, or you can talk

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about literal, psychological tension.

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And so I think of that, maybe

physiologically, we're also fine

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tuning the tension on a level.

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whether that's actually reducing or

increasing tension in certain areas.

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and I think that does have, a direct

influence on, their psychology as well,

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how they feel about their back afterwards.

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Sal Jefferies: yeah,

that's cool, isn't it?

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I understand about tensional forces,

having, taught yoga for many years,

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got into, different gyms, learned

about, heavy lifting, learning about

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torque, as in T O R Q U E, so how to

create torque in the body and tension.

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And tensional forces in

the body are appropriate.

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So if you are going to do a deadlift

and you've got no core activation, no

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glutes really working, you're probably

going to load your erectors, erectors,

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you're going to damage your lower

back, you're going to have problems.

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Application of tension, I think it's

really skillful, both in the gym, in

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the boardroom, and perhaps in life,

because if we aren't reflexive enough,

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then we can either be a soft, gentle

individual, or we're too hard and too

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edgy, and I find this, way of being

in, the 21st century, that if we are

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able to flex, we've got really good

things and skills available to us.

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there's a time to stand up to someone

and there's a time to be gentle

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and we want to know where and how.

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And I think the body is such a good

physical experience of this, am I holding

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tension in my shoulders because I'm just

stressed to hell with what's going on?

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Or am I creating tension in

my chest muscles because I'm

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about to do a chest press?

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So I think this conscious,

deliberate application of

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tension is a really skillful arm.

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Then the question goes,

how does a person do that?

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People say to me, so how do we do that?

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that's always the figure out question.

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So how do people, how do our bodies, how

do we manage tension or apply tension

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appropriately in your experience?

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Tom Waldron: Yeah, I think

there's two questions.

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There's one is how do we do that?

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and then how do we apply it?

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So I think like one thing that I do

all the time now, which I've just found

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to be the most effective approach is

give someone the experience of what

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they want and then teach them how they

can keep or reproduce that experience.

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So I think when I'm back in the day, I

would very much be like, okay, so it's

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this and this and you explain the thing.

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And it might be right, it probably was

wrong sometimes as well, but the idea

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is it doesn't really mean anything

unless someone has a literal experience

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in their nervous system of what it

feels like, for example, to have a

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quote unquote tension free shoulder.

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and then you can give them the, the steps

on how they can recreate that experience.

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So it's funny, again, language is

interesting, how we use language.

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So I, obviously, I even just

said tension free shoulder.

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And in reality, you're never tension

free, so the collagen fibres that are

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in the matrix of certain connective

tissues, they're always under tension.

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Even if you're quote unquote relaxed,

there's still a level of tension

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there, they're never under slack.

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So if you want to actually have the

experience of not feeling tension, it's

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about fine tuning the right level of

tension for your body in that moment.

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And so for example, that would

be, then how would you get to

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the practical aspect of that?

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sometimes people have these preconceived

ideas that oh, before I do this

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movement, I have to pre activate

this muscle or, when I'm doing

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the movement, I have to keep these

muscles short and these ones long.

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And the issue of that is obviously

if you're going to move the

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body, things have to change.

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So you have to have different

neurological impulses.

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You need to have different, literally

different levels of tension going

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through your connective tissue.

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And then you have different, muscle,

cells going on and off as well.

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I think on that level it's

also addressing, are there any

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preconceived ideas about the body

that this person might have, either

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if they're also a professional and

they've been taught a certain way.

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or if they've gone to certain

classes and they've just been taught,

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you can't lift your leg until you

brace your core first, for example.

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And I think, they're all, they're

not bad things, you're not going to

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break someone if you teach them that.

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but, you might be reinforcing patterns

of excessive tension over time.

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to, then they get to the point in

present day where they feel like they

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can't move their shoulder a certain way.

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or they can, but it just

feels uncomfortable.

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my big thing is always starting with

what's the experience you want, and

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then it's doing a few, sometimes

it's essentially like little magic

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tricks to give them that experience.

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that experience is inherently always going

to be temporary, because most short term

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change is neurologically driven anyway.

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But then how can you give someone

the tools so then they can build that

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experience for themselves long term?

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Does, am I making sense?

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Or am I just rambling?

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Sal Jefferies: that's really, really good.

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I'm quite metaphorically driven.

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My mind sees things in

metaphors, and I'm imagining, a

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violinist, or a guitar player.

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Now, I've never played

either, but I've seen them.

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And they're really cool

when they're strung nicely.

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So I can imagine, looking at the

strings of a guitar or a violin,

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and if they are loose, you try and

pluck them, there's going to make no

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sound, or it's going to be terrible.

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Or if they're too tight, you

pluck them and they could break.

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Same with a tennis racket, if that's

a better metaphor for someone,

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floppy strings, the ball is going

to be all over the place, too hard

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and you might get too much bounce.

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in terms of tensional forces, I love what

you've said there, create the experience

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that you want, and I'm interested to

get an example of that in a second,

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but then give them the tools, because

if we, to keep it very physiological

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for this moment, in the S& C, domain.

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There is a, still a large contingent

that you've really braced your core

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very strongly, say doing a heavy

score or heavy deadlift or pushing

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a heavy sled, something like that.

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And I know some people in the other

movement field who challenged that.

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They don't say you don't brace your core,

but they say you're relaxed under tension.

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And there are these opposing

in a way ideologies.

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But if we think about practical,

you don't generally tense your

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body to lift something up.

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You simply lift it up.

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So I guess the sweet spot is how

do we get to a place where it's

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so unconsciously Elegant that our

body works without becoming unsafe.

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So can you gimme an example?

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Let's take a deadlift.

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So any one of my listeners who goes

to the gym and picks some stuff up

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in a deadlift move, we all know him.

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You want to protect your back,

you want to hinge nicely.

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How might you help that person have

a better experience rather than, err

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locked on tension or they're too floppy

and and potentially damage themselves?

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How could you take us through

that example of experience and

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then a tool to work with them?

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Tom Waldron: so that's a really

good, I like that exercise.

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So a really good way that I use for

myself and also for a lot of clients

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is So let's say the goal is, I want

to, pick that weight off the floor

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in whichever form they want to do it.

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Whether they want to hip hinge

more or they want to feel

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like they're just more stable.

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One of the first things I'll do is

literally give them an experience,

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which you can do very easily, of where

actually are your hip joints located.

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So in your body, where does the femur

head actually meet your ATA and it?

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And it doesn't mean you suddenly

got to go into this big anatomy

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class and here's the thing and the

thing, and here are the ligaments.

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It's not so much that it's literally

just do you even know where your

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joints are located in your body?

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And the hip joints are normally a really

good example of that because even with

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professionals, if you ask them like,

take your index fingers and point on

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your body, where are your hip joints?

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People almost inevitably either point

to their ASISs, their hip bones, or they

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point to their greater trochanters, which

is either too high or too out to the side.

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And what's really interesting about

that is, when you ask someone a question

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like, again, where's your shoulder,

where's your spine, where's your hip

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joints, and then they point to where

they think it is, they're already giving

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you a clue of what their body schema is.

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So it's like my perception of where my

thigh bone meets my pelvic bone is here,

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whether it's accurate or not accurate.

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So one of the first things I'll do,

it takes 30 seconds, is I'll just give

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them, and I don't even touch them, I can

tell them how to find their hip joints.

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And then once they've actually located,

oh, my hip joints are here, they're

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actually usually much more narrow

and central to the body than what I

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may have thought they were before.

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And then I'll get them just to move

their hip joints from that position.

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And for many people, if that's the

first time they've actually had a

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cognitive, clear understanding of, oh

wow, okay, my theme head's actually

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here, and that's the place I primarily

want to be moving from if I want

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to be picking, a bar off the floor.

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That, without me having to give any cues,

or any sort of instruction, it instantly

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changes how they organize themselves.

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One of the things that I'm really into,

and I'm not above in any way giving cues

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or giving clear instructions, but what

I just find really interesting is if

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you give the brain, a clear, simplistic

sense of Oh, okay, here is said bone

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or said joint, it instantly organises

itself in a, quote unquote, better

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way, in a more efficient way, or in the

way that person wants to be organised.

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So then when they do the movement,

they're like, Oh, okay, cool.

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And then even then you can

still give cues afterwards.

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I can still say, Oh, imagine that

you're dropping your pelvis down

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onto a chair or anything like

that, some sort of external cue.

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But I always start with, let's just

change your experience of your body.

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And a good place to start is

fundamentally, if you don't know

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where a joint is, something simple

like a hip joint, how do you know

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if you're moving it properly or

even moving it potentially at all?

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Does that make

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Sal Jefferies: It makes a lot of sense.

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I love that.

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Understanding the schema of the body.

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Yeah, where it is.

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and this is a thing I see in human

performance work, whether we're

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in the physical domain or the

psychological emotional domain.

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That if you don't know what's going

on, it's really hard to deal with

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it because it's an abstraction.

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Yeah, it's like I'm really stressed.

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What does that even mean?

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Or I'm struggling with my deadlift.

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What does that actually mean?

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We need to get specific.

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And we need to be accurate, because

if you're not deadlifting or hinging,

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as of course the deadlift movement is,

from the right place, you'll hinge from

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another place, which implicitly might

be a physiological or physical problem,

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and, and I would also say psychological,

because, as I explained to you, Tom, and

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all my regular listeners, there is such

a crossover between our thinking, feeling

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self and our physical, moving self.

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One is influencing the other all the time.

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So if we don't know where our body

is, how do we know where we are?

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It's, such a big thing with

the embodied movement, which I

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really, push, embodied cognition.

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A brain does not function inside a

black skull, dark, nothing going on,

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without inputs from the body, from

the sense receptors, from everything

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that's going on in the environment.

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Our body is actually feeding up to our

brain, and then, this is a longer debate

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about what the brain and mind is, but, but

our experience of self, do I move well?

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Do I feel creaky?

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do I say, Oh, my back's killing me?

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Or do I walk with a sense

of power in my posture?

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And I love what you said there is if

you don't know the schema of your body,

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Whether you're deadlifting or trying to be

more confident, you're in trouble because

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you don't know where the right things are.

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So that's super, super helpful.

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yeah, really helpful.

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Thank you.

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Tom Waldron: Was gonna

say of that as well.

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it's almost because that was, that's

a really nice way of putting it, I

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think like it's also fundamentally,

if you are, if you're helping

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someone moving to move better.

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It's just about really helping them

relate to the environment better.

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So you're relating to the chair

better, you're relating to the

335

:

floor, you're relating to that

bar that you want to pick up.

336

:

So it's very much I've got this

physical thing, and it's made up of

337

:

many different types of tissues, and

the geometry changes all over the place.

338

:

But if I've just got a simple sense of

oh okay, this is a point, like again,

339

:

let's say the hip joint, this is a

point where there's lots of power.

340

:

And it's also a point

with lots of movement.

341

:

If I just have a little bit more of a

kinesthetic awareness of where that area

342

:

is, that, instantly just changes how

you relate to, one, that internal place,

343

:

being the hip joint, but also then the

external world, like just the floor, and

344

:

how you place your feet on the floor.

345

:

that for me has always been really

interesting, trying to almost teach

346

:

a little bit less sometimes, and

just be like, this is what your

347

:

brain needs to know, here's your

hip joint or here's your knee.

348

:

and then, does that change how

you position your body in space?

349

:

Sal Jefferies: Very nice.

350

:

Yeah.

351

:

a very good coaching approach, right?

352

:

To help the person generate

the understanding from within.

353

:

And when we generate learning

from within, it's implicit.

354

:

we own it.

355

:

It's, it's a great way.

356

:

I love that.

357

:

It's such a, great, definition.

358

:

Now we were speaking a little bit before

the show about forces and I really

359

:

want to get your knowledge on this.

360

:

forces are at play everywhere.

361

:

And you explained to me, there's

of course, there's gravity.

362

:

there is, there's all kinds

of physiological forces

363

:

and we'll dig into that.

364

:

but of course, Tom, there are

forces in life and there's pressure.

365

:

There is stresses.

366

:

There are social challenges.

367

:

There's financial challenges.

368

:

And if we want to be a well

functioning human being, We want

369

:

to relate to those forces as well,

because they're not going to go away.

370

:

So how do we relate to them?

371

:

How do we work with them?

372

:

Now, perhaps you can give me some of your

understanding about working with forces,

373

:

both from the body and then how that

plays out into that person's experience.

374

:

how do you work with that?

375

:

Can you say some more?

376

:

Tom Waldron: Yeah, I think it's

always just good to know, what are

377

:

the forces in the first place, and

then from there, sometimes those

378

:

answers almost become obvious.

379

:

so you have four main forces of movement,

which would be gravity, the weight of your

380

:

body, momentum, so how fast you're moving

your body, and then it's the reaction

381

:

from the ground, so ground reaction force.

382

:

So whether you're a yogi, a Pilates

teacher, gyrotonic instructor,

383

:

runner, it's non negotiable.

384

:

Those are the four forces that you

deal with for the rest of your life.

385

:

So how well you deal with those

forces on a fundamental level dictates

386

:

the experience of your whole life.

387

:

So I would say, it's interesting that

you think of, makes up, a human's life.

388

:

You can say many things, but I think

one of the main components is, you're

389

:

always standing, or you're almost

always standing, you're sitting,

390

:

you're breathing, and you're thinking.

391

:

how are you managing those experiences?

392

:

when you stand, can you organize yourself

in a way which is unique to your own body?

393

:

It's not to say there's, here's a

cookie cutter way of one should stand.

394

:

But for your own, just, physiological

makeup, can you stand in a way where

395

:

you're actually managing those four

forces, in a way that feels good

396

:

to you or feels comfortable to you?

397

:

and then even to the sense of let's

say, more the thinking, so we know

398

:

that, for example, the thoughts in your

head literally have a physiological,

399

:

influence on your body, so we know

very clearly now, for example, that if

400

:

you are visualizing a movement, very

similar parts of the brain become active,

401

:

as if you were doing that movement.

402

:

and then you even get a little bit

of a trickle down effect, where you

403

:

get neurological womps going into

like certain muscle fibers, and as

404

:

if you were doing that movement.

405

:

So you literally have this neurological

crossover between what you do, and also

406

:

how you think or how you visualize things.

407

:

So I think on a level, it's been my

experience that, how you navigate

408

:

through the world, so how gracefully

or non gracefully you deal with

409

:

those forces, that has a huge impact

on how you deal with social aspects

410

:

or, again, interpersonal things or

relationships, as well, for sure.

411

:

It's been my experience

doing it definitely.

412

:

And it's been, it's been fun to

also get similar sorts of feedback

413

:

from clients without prompting them.

414

:

where I think I was saying to you before

the podcast, let's say you help someone

415

:

with their back pain, sometimes helping

someone with their back pain is things

416

:

like, can we be, I'm not going to teach

them about the forces necessarily, but can

417

:

we move you in a way and maybe strengthen

certain things in a way so you're just

418

:

managing the forces of movement better?

419

:

And then that can totally translate

into them being more socially

420

:

comfortable at going to certain

social functions, for example.

421

:

and I do think those

bridges are quite connected.

422

:

You made

423

:

Sal Jefferies: I see that too.

424

:

Certainly if someone steps into my

coaching space, which is largely a

425

:

conversation, a psychological, let's

say working domain, but I'll always

426

:

reference the body, what's going

on with your body as you say this.

427

:

So we'll have an embodied

connection around this.

428

:

And what intrigues me is about movement.

429

:

I've often sat with a coffee

and just watch people go by.

430

:

I find it absolutely intriguing.

431

:

You can read a lot without mind reading

or assumptions, but you can read a lot.

432

:

There's a lot of information available

if you're quiet and you observe.

433

:

And it might be, how's someone's gait?

434

:

How are they moving?

435

:

Where's their eye liner?

436

:

Are they looking down

or are they looking up?

437

:

And these things say a lot

about where that person's at.

438

:

And I know for me, it's that I learned

this years ago, but Every time I'm

439

:

very much buried in thinking, binge

thinking, I call it, I'll be looking down.

440

:

I'll be slightly collapsing

the thoracic area.

441

:

I'll be slightly loading my lower back.

442

:

I just won't be walking very well.

443

:

And as soon as I can feel that, that

roll across the foot and the lift in

444

:

my core, an eye line forward or up,

I'm in a much more open mind space.

445

:

And this really intrigues me.

446

:

This, posture is power.

447

:

I learned this many years ago in yoga.

448

:

I learned this from being a

photographer as one of my other careers.

449

:

I did how we move, how we stand is

experienced by us and the other.

450

:

So if we want to be functioning well,

the best that we can be and we're

451

:

not attending to these forces and to

the way we relate to these forces.

452

:

Both A, that's a problem and,

b, that, that's an opportunity.

453

:

problems and opportunities go together.

454

:

It depends what you're doing about them,

. So if I was to come to you, Tom, I'm

455

:

like, okay, all my lower back's really

tricky and I've got a lot of stresses

456

:

going on right now, and I'm a bit wonky.

457

:

you've already said you kind of

ask questions, which is great.

458

:

You figure out what's that person

wants, but let's say I said to you,

459

:

listen, I just want to feel good.

460

:

I want to get rid of this achy back.

461

:

I'd like to be a little

less stressed, please.

462

:

That'd be great if you

know how to do that.

463

:

What would you do that's in the

physical domain in your toolbox that

464

:

would treat that kind of challenge?

465

:

Which you would know not only treats

the quote unquote back problem and the

466

:

stress level but would have a direct

effect on that person's experience

467

:

Emotionally and psychologically as well

468

:

Tom Waldron: Yeah, absolutely, to keep

it to lower back pain, the first thing,

469

:

once they've been clinically cleared the

first thing I would be checking is, I

470

:

would ask them, can you either show me, or

can you explain to me, so what movements

471

:

Postures or just daily life activities

has your lower back affected basically.

472

:

So what, what, can you currently

not do or not do at all?

473

:

and normally they can like demonstrate

on a level like, whether it's bending

474

:

forward or if it's picking up like

their three year old, And then it's

475

:

just kind of like noticing that, like

just, first of all, just the external.

476

:

Okay, they start, they suffer with maybe

squatting or they, they have an issue with

477

:

bending to the left or whatever it is.

478

:

And then when they get more into the

daily life things, like normally it's

479

:

a lot of guys who may not be able to

play with a three year old for very long

480

:

because they simply can't bend down and

stay in that position for a long time.

481

:

So already there's an emotional

component there for sure.

482

:

Whether they're aware of it or not,

that's like really, really powerful.

483

:

So my first point of call is,

let's find a way for you to do

484

:

those movements where either we're

minimizing the level of discomfort,

485

:

Or hopefully even quite initially,

there's not any discomfort there.

486

:

and the reason why we're doing that from

my perspective, one is it's to keep that

487

:

person having their autonomy so they can

actually still live the life they wanna

488

:

live and they're not feeling like they're

broken or they constantly do things.

489

:

and it's also, exposing the body to

similar movements that they currently

490

:

can't do for whatever reason.

491

:

but finding a way to work around

it and that normally calms down.

492

:

if they have any stress around

it, that normally calms down

493

:

their stress levels too.

494

:

So if they can't bend forward and play

with their toddler just yet, maybe

495

:

they can bend down 75 percent of the

way and if we just play with where

496

:

the legs are positioned, maybe the

leg is going to be a bit more further

497

:

forward than it originally was, so

you've got to bend your spine forward

498

:

as far, then they can play with their

kid for a bit longer, for example.

499

:

so rather than trying to take away

movements or take away exercises, Just

500

:

reverse engineer it and modify it to

the point where they can manage it.

501

:

And then over time, it's building

them back up again so that they can

502

:

actually manage those positions.

503

:

So I guess just to summarize, first

thing is, what can you not do?

504

:

okay, cool, let's now modify that so

you can do it to a certain degree.

505

:

and then around that, looking at

the movements that they showed,

506

:

okay, let's now increase your

tolerance in those positions.

507

:

So as you were saying, if it is, let's

say, they can't bend their spine forward

508

:

because that starts to hurt, that

could be because they simply aren't

509

:

strong enough in spinal flexion for the

loads they're currently dealing with.

510

:

So let's do some spinal flexion, but

let's just maybe do it in a different

511

:

way, until they can do it in the

way they couldn't do it before.

512

:

Does that make

513

:

Sal Jefferies: It makes a lot of sense.

514

:

It's really really nice, isn't it?

515

:

because there's a tendency to

think if I have an injury or have

516

:

a pain, I won't go there You know,

I won't bend over or I won't do the

517

:

movement that causes me discomfort.

518

:

And yet what you're suggesting there

is let's understand that better.

519

:

Let's have a different

relationship to that.

520

:

Let's perhaps get an experience

of that in a slightly different

521

:

version or different, an amount.

522

:

And what I hear there is you're actually

giving someone back freedom, physical

523

:

freedom to move or maybe to play with a

kid or whatever it is, but you're giving

524

:

that person back autonomy as opposed

to, a disability, which obviously it's a

525

:

strong word and we care for how we use it.

526

:

But if you're unable to do

something, you start to become.

527

:

Moving towards disability and

it's something which intrigues me.

528

:

as someone of some mature years now,

as I look to the future and you look

529

:

to the stats like, mm, muscle loss, 3

percent per year, muscle power loss,

530

:

3 percent and you look at the stats

generally and think, okay, if I don't

531

:

stay active and I am super active and

I preach this, I'm like, if you're

532

:

40 plus, you need to be training.

533

:

And I've had people say

to me, I'm not an athlete.

534

:

I'm like, yeah, but you need to

be because life demands us to be

535

:

an athlete because we have chairs.

536

:

If we're knowledge workers, we sit

at chairs, we sit at computers and we

537

:

might drive or take a bus or whatever.

538

:

We are so damn sedentary now.

539

:

Just lifestyle is so sedentary

that if we don't do something to

540

:

arrest that sedentary dynamic,

then we're going to have problems.

541

:

And of course, that's

something which I do myself.

542

:

And I also aim to get

clients to do more and more.

543

:

As we're getting towards a more mature

year, there used to be the sentiment that

544

:

you should slow it down, didn't there,

just take it easy, I remember one of

545

:

my clients, he was a ex kickboxer and

then he came to my yoga practice and

546

:

it's funny because I went from yoga and

I've got into boxing now, I've gone the

547

:

other way, I've gone the extreme stuff.

548

:

But there is a prevailing world view,

certainly in this, in our country or in

549

:

the West, that as we age, we have this

certain expectation of less mobility,

550

:

less strength, probably diminished

health, and all these qualities.

551

:

Now, while it's true to some degree

that the body will diminish slowly

552

:

over time if it's kept well, I'm really

interested in challenging this orthodoxy.

553

:

about saying to people, no,

you can relearn a movement

554

:

pattern at 45 years old.

555

:

You can become a strong

woman or strong man at 57.

556

:

It's all there.

557

:

But how would you treat that?

558

:

Let's say I come to you, Tom, and I'm

like, yes, and I've seen your stuff.

559

:

You sound so cool.

560

:

I'm ready.

561

:

I'm 51 or 52 now.

562

:

I'm 52.

563

:

I want to be an athlete.

564

:

Help me.

565

:

I saw Sal.

566

:

He said, go to see you.

567

:

What would you do?

568

:

How would you help a person

who's roughly midlife saying.

569

:

Let's get you moving well.

570

:

So you're functioning well

physiologically, you'll function

571

:

well in your movement and you'll

function well in your health.

572

:

What would you do?

573

:

I know I've thrown actually a massive

challenge at you, but I'm really

574

:

intrigued to how you might take that

575

:

on.

576

:

Tom Waldron: Well, it's interesting, so I,

I would say prob probably temperamentally,

577

:

I'm a relatively optimistic person.

578

:

However, I do believe that negative

emotion can be much more powerful

579

:

if used in a certain context.

580

:

In, in this sort of situation.

581

:

So for example, we know that if you

put a mouse on a little treadmill and

582

:

you have the smell of cheese at the end

of the treadmill, the mice is, or the

583

:

mouse is going to be motivated to run

on the treadmill faster to get the food.

584

:

Basically.

585

:

However, if you put the, the smell of

a cat behind them, they run much faster

586

:

than if they were to get the cheese

because it's more the idea of, I'd rather

587

:

they're more motivated to not get eaten.

588

:

So even though, it is very motivational

to have, obviously, goals, end state

589

:

goals, process goals, like you know where

you want to be going, so I think mapping

590

:

out what you want is important, but I

actually think, to be real, sometimes

591

:

it's really good to just spend an hour

fully articulating, what would be like

592

:

your own version of hell in five years.

593

:

And actually, no, so

what would it be like?

594

:

So I would look like this, or I'd

feel this way, or this would happen.

595

:

and you go through that

as a bit of a process.

596

:

if the next five years went

terribly, what would that look like?

597

:

And then that gives you the blueprint

of I want to go in the opposite

598

:

direction of that, basically.

599

:

And I think that's when you

can sometimes motivate people.

600

:

It's if you want to have a body That

wears down really fast, you're going

601

:

to get really ill, you always feel like

crap, you can't do anything, and actually

602

:

you're kind of like a bit of a bummer to

hang out with because you don't really

603

:

want to do anything and you can't anyway.

604

:

And I just think sometimes articulating

the reality of that, that can motivate

605

:

someone to be like, you know what, okay,

that's, so what do I do to avoid that?

606

:

And it's okay, walking's really

good, strength training's really

607

:

good, flexibility, maybe, whatever,

just basically, as long as you do

608

:

strength training, actually you're

going to get more flexible anyway.

609

:

even though it starts negative, that

kind of gets the fire going, and I also

610

:

think, it's also, like you were saying,

that the preconceived ideas that you're

611

:

meant to be feeling this way at this

age, or you're meant to be looking this

612

:

way at this age, or, you shouldn't be

doing that at this time in your life or

613

:

whatever, I think, one of the ways you

can minimize those negative beliefs, which

614

:

aren't even accurate in the first place,

Is people believe they have to like,

615

:

work out seven times a week and they've

gotta do like a 90 minute session and

616

:

they've gotta do this, this, and that.

617

:

When in reality for, if someone does

like a workout session three times

618

:

a week for 45 minutes and they're

doing like, let's say a strength

619

:

program, the benefits are non-linear.

620

:

they're gonna keep getting better

and better and better as long as the

621

:

program is progressing with them.

622

:

And it doesn't have to be like these,

seven hours a week slog basically.

623

:

So I think it's also realizing the

bar can be set quite low for success.

624

:

But also maybe know where you could go if

you never even started in the first place.

625

:

Does that make sense?

626

:

Sal Jefferies: does.

627

:

I love that.

628

:

I really love that.

629

:

Such a, I'm quite happy at staring into

the abyss sometimes to motivate me.

630

:

And as we certainly I know from

brain science that we are, the

631

:

brain is a prediction system.

632

:

Andy Clark, Professor Andy Clark talks

about this, the predictive brain,

633

:

that the brain is always predicting.

634

:

And the first thing it's always

looking for, or brain slash

635

:

nervous system, is threat.

636

:

We are a threat detection system first

and foremost, and when the threat's out of

637

:

the way then we can be socially engaged.

638

:

What we call dorsal vagal on

the, in the nervous system.

639

:

There are two types.

640

:

So I come across away from meta patterns.

641

:

They're called and toward meta patterns.

642

:

So overarching thinking

styles for peoples.

643

:

I think both are really powerful.

644

:

I think let's look how

bad it could really be.

645

:

Look at this.

646

:

Look, actually, if you don't

do something, this is where

647

:

your life is going to end up.

648

:

And that's not a good look.

649

:

And this is where it could be.

650

:

And then you got that.

651

:

And what I'm feeling

there's tension, right?

652

:

That that creates tension.

653

:

And you spoke about tensional forces

in the body and I'm interested

654

:

in that tensional forces in,

motivation or let's say compulsion.

655

:

around if you can notice these two things

that might create the right kind of

656

:

tension, but it's, yeah, I love that.

657

:

I would be listening to you half

day, but like, yeah, totally.

658

:

I know I don't want to be in five

years, and I have an autoimmune

659

:

condition, so I know what it's like

to be down and out, to be broken by

660

:

them, and I, thankfully, I'm in pretty

good shape, and I have to be careful.

661

:

There are certain things I need to do

and not do, but I know having health

662

:

taken away from you is Suffering.

663

:

Pure suffering.

664

:

And I don't wish it on anyone, and I

certainly don't want it for myself.

665

:

But that's why I do what I do.

666

:

It's one of the big motivations, because

I know what suffering feels like.

667

:

And I don't want that.

668

:

Because people say to me, Tom, they're

like, Wow, you're so motivated.

669

:

You train every day, you do this.

670

:

I'm like, yeah, but I see it as play.

671

:

And I also see it as privilege,

because I know when I haven't

672

:

been able to even stand up.

673

:

I can't even stand up.

674

:

So when I can stand up, I'm never not

grateful for that, which I don't know, if

675

:

someone's had a health issue, maybe they

relate to that, but maybe if you haven't,

676

:

it could be more, more challenging.

677

:

Yeah,

678

:

Tom Waldron: think it's a, I really

believe it's a privilege to be able to

679

:

have your autonomy, like truly, my first

ever client, ever, ever, ever, ever, was

680

:

a 13 year old boy, and I'm still, friends

with him now, he's probably 27 now or

681

:

something, but anyway, he had cerebral

palsy, he was born with cerebral palsy,

682

:

and so he couldn't walk, and I was working

with him because he was having some

683

:

surgeries at the time, and my job, I mean

I barely knew anything at this point,

684

:

but my job was to come in for two hours

a day, and, And just do some stretches

685

:

and it was really, really positive.

686

:

But I remember, I was probably like

18 at the time, I was really young.

687

:

And I remember just being in bed one

night, it was probably quite early on

688

:

when I was working with this, young guy.

689

:

And I remember just being like, at any

point, if I want to go to the toilet,

690

:

I can just, get up and go to the loo.

691

:

Or like glass of water, man,

I really just spent like a few

692

:

minutes in like darkness, like in my

bedroom, just thinking about this.

693

:

And then, because it was, the first

time in my life I'd been around someone.

694

:

who was disabled, physically

disabled, basically.

695

:

And it was really, it was almost like

a light bulb moment went off, where I

696

:

was just like, it is a genuine privilege

to be able to just even like meme

697

:

gesture with my hand as I'm talking.

698

:

And I think sometimes you never have

those moments where you just realise,

699

:

Oh, being alive is really weird.

700

:

Like you almost catch yourself, because

you get busy in your day, and you're

701

:

like, I don't do taxes, whatever,

like you're late for something.

702

:

You just get sucked into just

like the, for lack of a better

703

:

word, I guess the rat race.

704

:

And then you have those

moments where you're like, it's

705

:

really weird that I'm alive.

706

:

and it's and this is gonna, and

it's 80 years of, it's just like,

707

:

as soon as I have those moments

I just get quite introspective.

708

:

But I just think also it's really lucky

to, one, be alive, but also you're

709

:

alive with a body that actually is

able to respond to like, your thinking.

710

:

And just, I sometimes have these funny

debates with friends who, I might

711

:

say that to them and they're just

like, What are you on about, mate?

712

:

Of course you can move.

713

:

they think it's ridiculous that

I'm just grateful on that level

714

:

that you're able to move your body.

715

:

But I think maybe if you've been

around that a little bit, you've

716

:

been around people that don't have

that and they weren't even born with

717

:

that opportunity in the first place.

718

:

It's just, it's almost and I

think as well, talking to older

719

:

men, guys in their 70s and 80s.

720

:

who are still really fit and

active, but they can sometimes

721

:

say still bloody, it's harder now.

722

:

And I just think it's good

to keep it if you've got it,

723

:

Sal Jefferies: yeah, absolutely.

724

:

a phrase came to my

mind a little while ago.

725

:

it's a bit of the Cartesian debate,

but we don't live in a body.

726

:

We live through a body.

727

:

So that means if your whole experience

of life is mediated through your

728

:

senses, through your tissues, through

your fascia, up through the nervous

729

:

system, into the brain, into the, to

the idea of like, how am I doing today?

730

:

How am I feeling?

731

:

How am I moving?

732

:

How am I working?

733

:

Then I think we are missing the absolute

building blocks of the constituent of

734

:

like how our experience actually is.

735

:

So we could go deep and philosophical,

which is where I like to hang out, but

736

:

I'm going to bring it back on point

because so for our listeners, we've really

737

:

checked in with some important stuff.

738

:

Understanding forces, understanding

tension, understanding that

739

:

relationship between your body and

really knowing where things are.

740

:

Sounds, that's just such

fundamental, and clear advice.

741

:

It's brilliant, Tom.

742

:

It's really brilliant.

743

:

I would like to capture this into Some

of the perhaps the pillars or the key

744

:

things you might say, here's what I would

impart if you want to function well, what

745

:

might those pillars or guidance points be?

746

:

Tom Waldron: I would say just

know how the body functions.

747

:

so if you want to know okay, like

how do I, how do I function better?

748

:

You will, I think the, thing before that

is what is the function of this thing?

749

:

So if that makes any sense, so for

example, bring it back to practical again.

750

:

So what's the function of

your foot for it, let's say.

751

:

So your foot, to keep it simple, it

can be a very foundational stable

752

:

surface to help balance the whole body.

753

:

and then it can also be a narrow, rigid

lever that can propel you through space.

754

:

So on a level, and there's obviously many

functions like balance, proprioception,

755

:

but just on that basic mechanical

level, the function of the foot is

756

:

to give you a foundational surface,

and then it's to give you a much less

757

:

foundational surface in a few milliseconds

to push you away from the floor.

758

:

So if you want to have a functional foot,

make sure it can just do those two things.

759

:

And then to work it back a bit further,

so how does it do those two things?

760

:

you need to have a

pronated foot sometimes.

761

:

And then you need to have a supinated

foot, so just then do exercises that

762

:

complement the different movements that

create pronation and create supination.

763

:

And if you do that, you'll have a

functional For example, so I think it's

764

:

like just knowing what the function

of something is, you can already then

765

:

streamline, Oh, okay, that's, then that's

how I'm functional and I can do that.

766

:

And then obviously you can be more

specific, I think there's, in my mind,

767

:

the function has two definitions.

768

:

You have, the function of the body.

769

:

So what's the function of this organ,

like the spine, the rib cage, whatever.

770

:

And then can I base some of my exercises

around complementing those functions.

771

:

But then also you have personal functions.

772

:

for example, going back to the guy

earlier on who wants to play with

773

:

his kid and he wants to bend down.

774

:

That, that's a function.

775

:

So it's also then, and that might be then

more global, so then how do I get the

776

:

hips to move better, how do I get the

spine to move better, to, to accommodate

777

:

that function that person wants in their

personal life with their kid, for example.

778

:

So for me, it's always been that,

it just, it just goes back to, going

779

:

much more global now, like what's

the function of the human body.

780

:

one thing we're really, really

good at is walking, we're the

781

:

best walkers on the planet.

782

:

So why not just learn a little

bit about what creates walking?

783

:

Or like another one, if you wanna have

a better shoulder, if you want your

784

:

shoulder to feel just pain-free, stronger,

more flexible, better positioned.

785

:

why do you have a shoulder?

786

:

Your shoulder is basically a force

buffer between your spine and your hand.

787

:

So you can throw balls so you can,

or throw rocks or throw spears.

788

:

So where the best throwers on the planet?

789

:

So we know, for example, that

by the time you get to four.

790

:

A four year old homosapien,

human, is already a better thrower

791

:

than a fully grown chimpanzee.

792

:

So we're really designed

for throwing stuff.

793

:

So if that's like your evolution heritage,

walking, throwing, a bit of swimming,

794

:

we're aquatic as well, oddly enough, then

why not just do things on a regular basis

795

:

that you were designed to do anyway?

796

:

And that will probably go a long

way to improving your function.

797

:

Sal Jefferies: Yeah.

798

:

Really

799

:

Tom Waldron: Am I answering the

800

:

question?

801

:

Sal Jefferies: Yeah, it does.

802

:

Yeah.

803

:

I'm just, my mind's percolating that,

that principle and, and I trust,

804

:

those listening as well are doing

the same, but yeah, just in some

805

:

ways it's super practical, isn't it?

806

:

It's what is the function of my foot?

807

:

it's what does it actually do?

808

:

And, and if you've got back pain, is that

because you walk in a dysfunctional way?

809

:

And it could be for some people.

810

:

If, so we changed the

function of the foot.

811

:

Yeah.

812

:

and the global idea of, I want to

travel whilst walking, then we might

813

:

then release up the chain of events.

814

:

actually my position of my hips is

better now because my foot's better

815

:

and, and suddenly my lower back pain

is gone, which then also means that I'm

816

:

probably not miserable and it might not

interrupt my sleep and so on and so forth.

817

:

So yeah, they are called fractals.

818

:

I call them fractals.

819

:

You know what fractals

repeating patterns in nature.

820

:

We see them in the bronchiality of the

lungs, we see them in the leaves and

821

:

the trees, but I see like behavioral

fractals in people as well, like

822

:

the small pattern repeats into the

bigger, and whether that's in the

823

:

physical domain or psychological, but

the pattern repeats, whether that's

824

:

imbalance or incorrect tension or

misunderstanding, or even disconnection

825

:

from the body, which I think is the

biggest thing I see for some people,

826

:

that the thinking self And the somatic

self, the body self are out of out.

827

:

They're outta whack,

they're outta harmony.

828

:

And and I love what you said there right

at the early part of the show about get

829

:

someone to know where their hip bones

actually insert and they're gonna hinge

830

:

well, and of course I'm like, yeah,

that's a, that makes so much sense.

831

:

And, and I'm thinking, hmm, when

I was deadlifting the other day

832

:

was I paying attention to my hip?

833

:

So I'm redoing that, that deadlifts

are on my, schedule tomorrow.

834

:

So I should be paying attention

to the hip joint movement.

835

:

Tom Waldron: And it also, for

me, it becomes really fun.

836

:

I, like you, I really love anatomy.

837

:

I, I just really enjoy

the study of anatomy.

838

:

Not, not because I like to

remember abstract names of things.

839

:

It's because, I just feel like when I'm

learning anatomy, I'm learning about,

840

:

oh, this is, I've learned about myself.

841

:

oh, this is actually how I evolved.

842

:

That's why the hip bones over there.

843

:

That's why the sit bones over there.

844

:

Oh, okay.

845

:

And I just find, that gives me a

really deep appreciation of movement.

846

:

And, but then bringing it back

to the clients, it doesn't mean

847

:

that they've got to bloody know

every single anatomy detail.

848

:

But even, going back to the throwing idea,

I get my clients sometimes who I teach

849

:

online, I get them to get a ball, and

we're just practicing throwing the ball.

850

:

And we make it fun, you've got to

visualize your partner, and you're

851

:

trying to throw the ball at them, or,

just like a bullseye a hundred meters

852

:

away, and, but just that act of them

throwing is so good for their shoulder.

853

:

And as you say, if suddenly they're,

like, if they notice in their own body,

854

:

which is always the more powerful teaching

moment is if they notice, they're like,

855

:

you know what, my shoulder actually

doesn't feel like it's moving so well

856

:

on the right side than the left side.

857

:

It might be something to do, if

the head's really far forward,

858

:

that restricts shoulder movement.

859

:

And so then you can be like, you know

what, why don't you just try this

860

:

with your head, and then see if that

improves how your shoulder moves.

861

:

And then suddenly you've

indirectly taught someone how

862

:

the body's inherently connected.

863

:

and it's not to say that everyone should

have the same posture, or everyone

864

:

should look the same, not at all.

865

:

But, going back to almost this idea

of the tension of the neck, and how

866

:

the tension of the neck influences

the tension of the shoulder, you can

867

:

play with that relationship until

someone feels like they're in their

868

:

most optimal organisational alignment.

869

:

Sal Jefferies: Beautiful,

absolutely beautiful.

870

:

I'm going to summarize with, I had

an old Tai Chi master friend and they

871

:

used to, say about wasted energy.

872

:

So from the Eastern arts, and they

would look at a body composition and

873

:

position, and they might get someone to

move their upper shoulders a little bit,

874

:

move their pelvis, split their feet.

875

:

And they would talk about how

much energy is either wasted or

876

:

saved based on optimal alignment.

877

:

And as you rightly say, it's not,

you should look like this picture.

878

:

You should stand like this, but it should

be, do you feel balanced perhaps in the

879

:

foot joints, the pelvis and the lower

back, and all these kinds of positions.

880

:

And it's amazing because

energy is everything.

881

:

Metabolic energy, thinking energy,

oxygen, all energy is life.

882

:

It's basic quantum physics,

and we mostly know this.

883

:

And when anyone feels tired,

and I see this a lot, someone's

884

:

tired, exhausted, maybe burnt out.

885

:

You are not utilizing your energy

very well, and I think it's such

886

:

an interesting thing to go to

the physical energy as well.

887

:

Like, how do you organize your body, as

you've already beautifully alluded to?

888

:

And is that disorganized?

889

:

Are you essentially hemorrhaging energy

through tight shoulders, traps that

890

:

are overfiring, whatever that might be?

891

:

And does that bleed out

into the rest of your life?

892

:

Energy drains, it's called in S& C.

893

:

And I think it's such an important

thing that a lot of people aren't

894

:

looking at, and It is wasted energy.

895

:

I would like to get your last thoughts on

energy management because it's something

896

:

I talk about a lot with my people.

897

:

Rather than time management, energy

management, like going with biorhythms,

898

:

going with the natural sense.

899

:

How might you work with that?

900

:

Tom Waldron: Yeah, I'm just thinking

energy because it's obviously a

901

:

big thing, like the first thing

that comes to my head is sleep.

902

:

I think that's probably because

it's, I'm thinking about my

903

:

own energy management probably.

904

:

I just noticed that if I'm underslept,

it just throws everything out.

905

:

which I find interesting.

906

:

So I think, in terms of how well could

people energy manage, I'll just think

907

:

about that for a minute, I think, I

suppose my main domain, which I do

908

:

that in, would be in, in movement

itself, so like you say, like, how can

909

:

we better organise the ribs over the

pelvis, and how they rotate with each

910

:

other in walking, and again, another

way of saying energy management,

911

:

you could say is energy leakage, uh,

which is more of a biomechanical term,

912

:

if, if you're moving too much in the

coronal plane, Then you're wasting a

913

:

bit of energy in the coronal plane.

914

:

So can we can we minimize that?

915

:

So we, as you were saying, optimizing

their energy flow, and I think you

916

:

know, I work, I've not seen her

actually yet in a few months, but I'm

917

:

going to work with her again soon.

918

:

I have an energy coach.

919

:

she doesn't really call herself

an energy coach, but I can, I just

920

:

know the way I can explain it.

921

:

So I just call her an energy coach.

922

:

But, that's very much

working with energy, really.

923

:

So we're working with my own energy.

924

:

if there's any kind of energetic, like

areas that aren't letting go, which might

925

:

manifest in like an image in my head or

like an emotion or anything like that.

926

:

and a lot of that, to be

honest, is, is presence work.

927

:

a lot of that I've learned from like

Eckhart Tolle, which I'm a big fan of.

928

:

and so in terms of energy management,

sometimes it's just even noticing

929

:

where you might have mismanagement.

930

:

And even just that noticing, I, this

is, I'm out of my area of expertise

931

:

now, but from what I've learned from

my teachers is where even just by

932

:

noticing that energy, it can already

start to diminish if it's not managed

933

:

well, and then you can start to manage

it better just by being aware of it.

934

:

But I think on a practical level, for

me, it's a sleep these days, like making

935

:

sure that you have a relatively dark

room, actually getting eight hours,

936

:

rather than six and a half or five hours.

937

:

because we know as well, like even

with sleep, there's a fair bit of

938

:

research now correlating lack of

sleep to increase an injury risk.

939

:

and so that's a huge thing as well

with, how, again, how you move

940

:

your body and how you manage it.

941

:

Yeah.

942

:

Sal Jefferies: because it's a big topic.

943

:

But yes, it's, but I

think the basics remain.

944

:

You don't have to be a specialist

in sleep to know what good sleep

945

:

feels like and what disruptive

sleep feels like and its effects.

946

:

So yes, it just goes to reminding

that if you get the basics right,

947

:

the fundamentals You build your base,

most things above it don't fall down.

948

:

If you've got a terribly bad base like

physiologically, or sleep, or your

949

:

psychological base is, is all all over the

place, everything above it can crumble.

950

:

or often I talk about a core 'cause

I'm look at that if I'm an Eastern

951

:

principle from a center alk, if

your core is robust and strong.

952

:

Everything that anchors and gravitates

towards it will feel strong.

953

:

Whereas if you cause weak, whether that's

physical, whether or mental or emotional,

954

:

then you're going to have problems.

955

:

And, and I don't know many

people that like problems.

956

:

So, we're always trying to

overcome problems, right?

957

:

Tom Waldron: It's so funny, isn't it,

because sometimes, I've sometimes been

958

:

guilty of like calling these things woo

woo, and I do it with a bit of tongue

959

:

in cheek, I don't really mean it.

960

:

But it's funny because the more, I think

the more you learn about, again, the

961

:

body, and it's funny how, these things,

transcend culture, we know, for example,

962

:

that your postural system is governed

by your serotonergic system, and you can

963

:

trace that system, a third of a billion

years back in the past, because you

964

:

can look at certain animals and you can

see how that same, neurophysiological

965

:

relationship governs their posture and

also governs the level of serotonin.

966

:

And so these systems have, been

in place, they're older than

967

:

trees, they've been in place for a

really, really, really long time.

968

:

And I think, so it's it's just

fun to learn these things, and

969

:

it's almost like you're learning

certain principles as well.

970

:

and then being able to practically

implement that in a S& C class,

971

:

or if it's a Pilates class, or

whatever it is, an education forum.

972

:

I think it's just, on many

different levels, it's quite

973

:

a rewarding thing to learn.

974

:

Sal Jefferies: Yeah, absolutely.

975

:

Tom, I am delighted that

we got to speak today.

976

:

I'm better informed already.

977

:

I'm like, I learn, I'm so privileged that

I get to speak wonderful people like you.

978

:

And I always learn something,

which is why I do this.

979

:

And I trust my dear listeners that

you have learned not just some thing,

980

:

but many things around forces, around

the body, around perhaps just thinking

981

:

around the impact of the body and the

mind and how it all comes together.

982

:

So Tom, If you haven't, do what I do

with podcasts, hit replay, write notes.

983

:

Yeah, write notes, grab what

you need to know from this.

984

:

and as always you can hit me on

the socials, let me know what you

985

:

thought, if you've got questions

for myself or for Tom, do connect.

986

:

So there'll be links on the show notes

and on socials this is on, so do connect.

987

:

So Tom, thank you for your time, dear

listener, thank you for your time.

988

:

Until the next one, take care.

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Show artwork for Mindset, Mood & Movement: Performance, Purpose & Peace

About the Podcast

Mindset, Mood & Movement: Performance, Purpose & Peace
Human performance podcast for life and business
Welcome to the Mindset, Mood & Movement Podcast. Your essential resource for founders, freelancers, and business owners looking to optimise their mindset, health, and business success.

Dive deep into the realm of human performance with us as we explore the systemic connections between psychology, emotions, and physical wellbeing, and their profound impact on achieving success and fulfilment in both personal and professional life.

Discover 3 key outcome areas: enhancing performance, redefining fulfilment, and cultivating peace of mind. Join me as I feature guest specialists in various fields, offering invaluable insights and expertise plus mini-episodes where I address specific challenge and provide actionable guidance on overcoming these obstacles.

Each episode is crafted to provide education, tools and strategies for you, whether you're navigating the complexities of entrepreneurship or seeking personal growth in your professional journey. My podcast serves as your ultimate guide to self-improvement and achieving excellence in your endeavours.

Expect to gain practical insights, delve into expert interviews, and receive actionable strategies tailored to the unique needs of small business owners and ambitious individuals striving to make a positive impact on the world.

About your host

Profile picture for Sal Jefferies

Sal Jefferies

I’m Sal - Human Performance Coach, Educator and Founder.

Everything I coach and teach is what I practice in my life. Mindset work including psychological and emotional development. And for my physical health, I do strength training, fitness and breathing practices. In all areas, I'm constantly learning and always growing.

At mid-life, I'm curious to how we can shape the second half of our life whilst using the latest science and learning's from psychology, emotional regulation and physical health. Over the last 25 years, I have immersed myself in many Eastern influences from philosophy, yoga and meditation. I find in our current world, there's much to learn by combining the latest science with ancient wisdom.

For me, working on the mind is paramount. Also, remaining fit, healthy and curious helps me increase performance, find fulfilment and create peace of mind. I believe this is important both a personal and professional life.

My professional endeavours, which inform my work, include:
Human Performance Coaching (for Founders), Contemporary Psychotherapist, Yoga Teacher, Strength & Conditioning Trainer and Breathwork Trainer. Before this latest chapter of my life, I've been a Photographer, Advertising Exec & Dancer.

When I'm not working, educating or learning, I'll be out with my dogs by the sea in Brighton, UK.