Episode 36
How working with the body changes your experience in life with Tom Waldron
Summary:
This podcast conversation is with Tom Waldron, a movement specialist who works with biomechanics and the body. Our discussion revolves around the importance of understanding and working with the body to improve overall well-being, performance, and life experience. Tom emphasises the interconnectedness of physical, mental, and emotional aspects, and how addressing issues in one area can positively impact other areas.
There are some fantastic things to learn - key points below!
Key Points:
1. Understanding the schema of the body and knowing where the joints are located is crucial for proper movement and function.
2. Applying the right amount of tension in the body is necessary for optimal performance and avoiding excessive strain or injury.
3. Addressing physical pain or limitations can also alleviate stress and improve emotional well-being.
4. Engaging in movements and exercises that complement the body's natural functions and evolutionary design can enhance overall health and vitality.
5. Managing energy levels through proper sleep, posture, and mindfulness practices is essential for overall well-being.
6. Developing awareness of energy mismanagement and addressing it can help optimise energy utilisation.
Show Notes:
0:00 - Introduction to Tom Waldron and the topic of working with the body.
3:00 - Tom's approach to understanding a client's goals and needs.
5:00 - The interconnectedness of physical, mental, and emotional well-being.
7:00 - Understanding and addressing psychosomatic aspects of pain.
9:00 - Giving clients the experience of what they want and teaching them how to reproduce it.
12:00 - The importance of knowing where the hip joints are located for proper movement.
16:00 - Working with forces and tension in the body.
21:00 - The influence of thoughts and visualization on physical movements.
24:00 - Addressing lower back pain by modifying movements and increasing tolerance.
28:00 - Challenging the orthodoxy of diminished health and mobility with age.
33:00 - Motivating clients by highlighting the undesirable consequences of inaction.
37:00 - The privilege of having an able body and the ability to move.
41:00 - Focusing on the body's natural functions, such as walking and throwing.
45:00 - Energy management and minimizing energy leakage through optimal alignment.
48:00 - The importance of sleep and rest for energy management and injury prevention.
Get in touch with Sal
If this episode has caught your attention and you wish to learn more, then please contact me. I offer a free 20 min call where we can discuss a challenge your facing and how I may be able to help you.
Get in touch with Tom
Tom how's the range of fascinating workshops and trainings. Please let Tom know you've listened to this episode with me. You can contact him here.
Transcript
Sometimes, you never have those moments where you just realise,
2
:"Oh, being alive is really weird."
3
:Like you almost catch yourself, because
you get busy in your day, and you're
4
:like, "I don't do taxes, whatever."
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:Like you're late for something.
6
:You just get sucked into just
like the, for lack of a better
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:word, I guess the rat race.
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:Sal Jefferies: So if we don't know where
our body is, how do we know where we are?
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:It's such a big thing with
the embodied movement, which I
10
:really push embodied cognition.
11
:A brain does not function inside a
black skull, dark, nothing going on,
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:without inputs from the body, from
the sense receptors, from everything
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:that's going on in the environment.
14
:Our body is actually feeding up
to our brain, but our experience
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:of self, do I move well?
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:Do I feel creaky?
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:Do I say, "Oh, my back's killing me?"
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:Or do I walk with a sense
of power in my posture?
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:And I love what you said there is if
you don't know the schema of your body,
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:whether you're deadlifting or trying to be
more confident, you're in trouble because
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:you don't know where the right things are.
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:How do we manage tension or apply
tension appropriately in your experience?
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:Tom Waldron: Yeah, I think
there's two questions.
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:There's one is how do we do that?
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:And then how do we apply it?
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:So I think like one thing that I do
all the time now, which I've just found
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:to be the most effective approach is
give someone the experience of what
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:they want and then teach them how they
can keep or reproduce that experience.
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:I think the more you learn about,
again, the body, and it's funny
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:how these things transcend culture.
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:We know, for example, that your
postural system is governed by your
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:serotonergic system, and you can trace
that system, a third of a billion
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:years back in the past, because you
can look at certain animals and you can
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:see how that same, neurophysiological
relationship governs their posture and
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:also governs the level of serotonin.
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:Sal Jefferies: What do you see in a body
that you're also seeing in their life?
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:Hello and welcome.
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:Today I'm joined by my guest, Tom
Waldron, who is a movement specialist.
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:He works with biomechanics and
all cool things with the body.
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:Now this is really interesting because
Tom shares an interest in the body like
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:I do, but in a much more, detailed way.
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:But we were talking recently and I was
absolutely intrigued with his work about
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:how working with the body changes how we
experience life and do things in life.
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:We're going to get into this.
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:A big thing is if you've got a lot
of challenges going on mentally,
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:getting into the body is going to be
a massive Massive benefit for you.
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:So we shall unpack.
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:Tom, welcome to the show.
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:It's good to see you, mate.
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:Tom Waldron: Thanks for
having me Sam, thank you.
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:Sal Jefferies: Cool.
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:Okay.
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:So give us a little context around what
do you do that's different with people
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:that that's movement orientated that
really helps them connect with their body?
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:Tom Waldron: I would say probably
with that the main thing, and you
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:could even say this is the difference
between potentially an instructor and
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:a coach, is just initially finding
out why the person has come to see
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:you in the first place, and that's
definitely not unique to me by any means.
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:A good therapist will do that, or a
good clinician will do that, but I
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:suppose the first thing is finding out
what that person's goals are, because
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:that's the most important thing, and
then Respectfully, with my background,
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:if I feel like, you know what, you would
benefit from this a bit more, or benefit
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:from this a bit more, we can have
that discussion and then move forward,
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:with some interventions that would help
with that as well, if that makes sense.
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:a bit of what they want, and then a
bit of what I think they also need.
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:Sal Jefferies: Yeah, really nice.
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:That's a nice way of kind of
meeting the middle, isn't it?
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:figuring out what that person's
requirements are, what their pain points
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:are, and understanding their version
of the world, plus your, knowledge
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:overlaying, which is, really, really nice.
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:It's so interesting with that body stuff.
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:I'm an S& C trainer as well now, as a
psychotherapist, as a mindset coach, and
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:the more I work with my own physiology,
my own body, and the more I work with
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:other people's, the more I see that,
If we are looking at human performance,
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:if we're looking at mental being and
emotional well being, we really,
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:really want to be including the body.
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:And it's often been a
secondary thing, hasn't it?
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:That I'll do a workout after
work or I'm too busy to exercise.
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:and I would say, actually, there's so
much data and knowledge now that says
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:if you're not exercising, if you're
not physically well, Your business
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:isn't going to go well, your health is
probably going to be damaged in some
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:way and your relationships are impacted.
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:So it has this whole kind of
cascade of influence, doesn't it?
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:Whether it's negative or positive.
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:Now, what are you seeing when
someone comes to you with a problem?
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:I can only imagine they come Oh, I've got
a sore shoulder or my back's killing me.
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:one of the classics.
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:What do you see in a body that
you're also seeing in their life?
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:What do you notice in those parallels?
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:Tom Waldron: Yeah, I think one of the
things can definitely be, let's say if
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:we just talk about pain for a moment.
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:I think at this point, if you're not
addressing any psychosomatic or lifestyle
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:aspects to someone's pain problem, it
doesn't really matter where the pain
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:actually is, then you're probably
on some level not finishing the job.
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:So I think, one thing that's always
good is you're always trying to
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:maintain some form of retention.
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:motivation with people.
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:So obviously if someone comes in
with a painful shoulder, one of the
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:first things you want to do is try
and reduce or minimise the symptoms.
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:So they get what they want, and then
along the way you also might help
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:them with what they need to make
those positive changes longer lasting.
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:So for example, I guess a more
obvious example, from my experience,
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:has been lower back pain.
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:so one of, probably the second or
third question I'll ask someone
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:these days is, how's your sleep?
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:These days, how are you sleeping?
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:So quality of sleep and also quantity.
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:I'm definitely not a sleep expert.
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:I've listened to people
who are sleep experts.
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:but there's definitely enough,
research to convince me that
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:yeah, if someone is undersleep.
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:That's going to really ramp up,
their amygdala and that's going to
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:increase their pain sensitivity.
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:Not that they're sensitive as
a person, just literally the
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:sensitivity of the nervous system.
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:And so addressing things like
rest is also really important.
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:I used to say tension, I'm always
changing my, dialogue around tension.
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:I used to think tension was bad.
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:but as tension means many things.
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:You can talk about the tension of the
connective tissue, or you can talk
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:about literal, psychological tension.
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:And so I think of that, maybe
physiologically, we're also fine
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:tuning the tension on a level.
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:whether that's actually reducing or
increasing tension in certain areas.
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:and I think that does have, a direct
influence on, their psychology as well,
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:how they feel about their back afterwards.
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:Sal Jefferies: yeah,
that's cool, isn't it?
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:I understand about tensional forces,
having, taught yoga for many years,
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:got into, different gyms, learned
about, heavy lifting, learning about
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:torque, as in T O R Q U E, so how to
create torque in the body and tension.
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:And tensional forces in
the body are appropriate.
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:So if you are going to do a deadlift
and you've got no core activation, no
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:glutes really working, you're probably
going to load your erectors, erectors,
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:you're going to damage your lower
back, you're going to have problems.
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:Application of tension, I think it's
really skillful, both in the gym, in
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:the boardroom, and perhaps in life,
because if we aren't reflexive enough,
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:then we can either be a soft, gentle
individual, or we're too hard and too
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:edgy, and I find this, way of being
in, the 21st century, that if we are
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:able to flex, we've got really good
things and skills available to us.
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:there's a time to stand up to someone
and there's a time to be gentle
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:and we want to know where and how.
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:And I think the body is such a good
physical experience of this, am I holding
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:tension in my shoulders because I'm just
stressed to hell with what's going on?
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:Or am I creating tension in
my chest muscles because I'm
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:about to do a chest press?
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:So I think this conscious,
deliberate application of
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:tension is a really skillful arm.
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:Then the question goes,
how does a person do that?
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:People say to me, so how do we do that?
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:that's always the figure out question.
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:So how do people, how do our bodies, how
do we manage tension or apply tension
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:appropriately in your experience?
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:Tom Waldron: Yeah, I think
there's two questions.
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:There's one is how do we do that?
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:and then how do we apply it?
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:So I think like one thing that I do
all the time now, which I've just found
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:to be the most effective approach is
give someone the experience of what
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:they want and then teach them how they
can keep or reproduce that experience.
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:So I think when I'm back in the day, I
would very much be like, okay, so it's
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:this and this and you explain the thing.
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:And it might be right, it probably was
wrong sometimes as well, but the idea
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:is it doesn't really mean anything
unless someone has a literal experience
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:in their nervous system of what it
feels like, for example, to have a
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:quote unquote tension free shoulder.
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:and then you can give them the, the steps
on how they can recreate that experience.
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:So it's funny, again, language is
interesting, how we use language.
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:So I, obviously, I even just
said tension free shoulder.
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:And in reality, you're never tension
free, so the collagen fibres that are
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:in the matrix of certain connective
tissues, they're always under tension.
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:Even if you're quote unquote relaxed,
there's still a level of tension
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:there, they're never under slack.
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:So if you want to actually have the
experience of not feeling tension, it's
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:about fine tuning the right level of
tension for your body in that moment.
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:And so for example, that would
be, then how would you get to
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:the practical aspect of that?
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:sometimes people have these preconceived
ideas that oh, before I do this
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:movement, I have to pre activate
this muscle or, when I'm doing
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:the movement, I have to keep these
muscles short and these ones long.
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:And the issue of that is obviously
if you're going to move the
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:body, things have to change.
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:So you have to have different
neurological impulses.
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:You need to have different, literally
different levels of tension going
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:through your connective tissue.
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:And then you have different, muscle,
cells going on and off as well.
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:I think on that level it's
also addressing, are there any
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:preconceived ideas about the body
that this person might have, either
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:if they're also a professional and
they've been taught a certain way.
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:or if they've gone to certain
classes and they've just been taught,
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:you can't lift your leg until you
brace your core first, for example.
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:And I think, they're all, they're
not bad things, you're not going to
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:break someone if you teach them that.
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:but, you might be reinforcing patterns
of excessive tension over time.
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:to, then they get to the point in
present day where they feel like they
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:can't move their shoulder a certain way.
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:or they can, but it just
feels uncomfortable.
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:my big thing is always starting with
what's the experience you want, and
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:then it's doing a few, sometimes
it's essentially like little magic
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:tricks to give them that experience.
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:that experience is inherently always going
to be temporary, because most short term
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:change is neurologically driven anyway.
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:But then how can you give someone
the tools so then they can build that
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:experience for themselves long term?
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:Does, am I making sense?
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:Or am I just rambling?
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:Sal Jefferies: that's really, really good.
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:I'm quite metaphorically driven.
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:My mind sees things in
metaphors, and I'm imagining, a
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:violinist, or a guitar player.
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:Now, I've never played
either, but I've seen them.
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:And they're really cool
when they're strung nicely.
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:So I can imagine, looking at the
strings of a guitar or a violin,
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:and if they are loose, you try and
pluck them, there's going to make no
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:sound, or it's going to be terrible.
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:Or if they're too tight, you
pluck them and they could break.
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:Same with a tennis racket, if that's
a better metaphor for someone,
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:floppy strings, the ball is going
to be all over the place, too hard
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:and you might get too much bounce.
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:in terms of tensional forces, I love what
you've said there, create the experience
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:that you want, and I'm interested to
get an example of that in a second,
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:but then give them the tools, because
if we, to keep it very physiological
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:for this moment, in the S& C, domain.
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:There is a, still a large contingent
that you've really braced your core
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:very strongly, say doing a heavy
score or heavy deadlift or pushing
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:a heavy sled, something like that.
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:And I know some people in the other
movement field who challenged that.
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:They don't say you don't brace your core,
but they say you're relaxed under tension.
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:And there are these opposing
in a way ideologies.
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:But if we think about practical,
you don't generally tense your
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:body to lift something up.
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:You simply lift it up.
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:So I guess the sweet spot is how
do we get to a place where it's
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:so unconsciously Elegant that our
body works without becoming unsafe.
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:So can you gimme an example?
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:Let's take a deadlift.
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:So any one of my listeners who goes
to the gym and picks some stuff up
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:in a deadlift move, we all know him.
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:You want to protect your back,
you want to hinge nicely.
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:How might you help that person have
a better experience rather than, err
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:locked on tension or they're too floppy
and and potentially damage themselves?
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:How could you take us through
that example of experience and
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:then a tool to work with them?
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:Tom Waldron: so that's a really
good, I like that exercise.
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:So a really good way that I use for
myself and also for a lot of clients
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:is So let's say the goal is, I want
to, pick that weight off the floor
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:in whichever form they want to do it.
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:Whether they want to hip hinge
more or they want to feel
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:like they're just more stable.
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:One of the first things I'll do is
literally give them an experience,
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:which you can do very easily, of where
actually are your hip joints located.
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:So in your body, where does the femur
head actually meet your ATA and it?
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:And it doesn't mean you suddenly
got to go into this big anatomy
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:class and here's the thing and the
thing, and here are the ligaments.
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:It's not so much that it's literally
just do you even know where your
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:joints are located in your body?
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:And the hip joints are normally a really
good example of that because even with
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:professionals, if you ask them like,
take your index fingers and point on
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:your body, where are your hip joints?
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:People almost inevitably either point
to their ASISs, their hip bones, or they
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:point to their greater trochanters, which
is either too high or too out to the side.
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:And what's really interesting about
that is, when you ask someone a question
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:like, again, where's your shoulder,
where's your spine, where's your hip
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:joints, and then they point to where
they think it is, they're already giving
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:you a clue of what their body schema is.
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:So it's like my perception of where my
thigh bone meets my pelvic bone is here,
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:whether it's accurate or not accurate.
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:So one of the first things I'll do,
it takes 30 seconds, is I'll just give
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:them, and I don't even touch them, I can
tell them how to find their hip joints.
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:And then once they've actually located,
oh, my hip joints are here, they're
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:actually usually much more narrow
and central to the body than what I
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:may have thought they were before.
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:And then I'll get them just to move
their hip joints from that position.
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:And for many people, if that's the
first time they've actually had a
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:cognitive, clear understanding of, oh
wow, okay, my theme head's actually
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:here, and that's the place I primarily
want to be moving from if I want
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:to be picking, a bar off the floor.
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:That, without me having to give any cues,
or any sort of instruction, it instantly
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:changes how they organize themselves.
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:One of the things that I'm really into,
and I'm not above in any way giving cues
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:or giving clear instructions, but what
I just find really interesting is if
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:you give the brain, a clear, simplistic
sense of Oh, okay, here is said bone
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:or said joint, it instantly organises
itself in a, quote unquote, better
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:way, in a more efficient way, or in the
way that person wants to be organised.
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:So then when they do the movement,
they're like, Oh, okay, cool.
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:And then even then you can
still give cues afterwards.
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:I can still say, Oh, imagine that
you're dropping your pelvis down
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:onto a chair or anything like
that, some sort of external cue.
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:But I always start with, let's just
change your experience of your body.
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:And a good place to start is
fundamentally, if you don't know
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:where a joint is, something simple
like a hip joint, how do you know
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:if you're moving it properly or
even moving it potentially at all?
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:Does that make
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:Sal Jefferies: It makes a lot of sense.
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:I love that.
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:Understanding the schema of the body.
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:Yeah, where it is.
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:and this is a thing I see in human
performance work, whether we're
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:in the physical domain or the
psychological emotional domain.
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:That if you don't know what's going
on, it's really hard to deal with
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:it because it's an abstraction.
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:Yeah, it's like I'm really stressed.
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:What does that even mean?
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:Or I'm struggling with my deadlift.
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:What does that actually mean?
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:We need to get specific.
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:And we need to be accurate, because
if you're not deadlifting or hinging,
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:as of course the deadlift movement is,
from the right place, you'll hinge from
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:another place, which implicitly might
be a physiological or physical problem,
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:and, and I would also say psychological,
because, as I explained to you, Tom, and
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:all my regular listeners, there is such
a crossover between our thinking, feeling
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:self and our physical, moving self.
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:One is influencing the other all the time.
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:So if we don't know where our body
is, how do we know where we are?
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:It's, such a big thing with
the embodied movement, which I
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:really, push, embodied cognition.
315
:A brain does not function inside a
black skull, dark, nothing going on,
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:without inputs from the body, from
the sense receptors, from everything
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:that's going on in the environment.
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:Our body is actually feeding up to our
brain, and then, this is a longer debate
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:about what the brain and mind is, but, but
our experience of self, do I move well?
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:Do I feel creaky?
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:do I say, Oh, my back's killing me?
322
:Or do I walk with a sense
of power in my posture?
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:And I love what you said there is if
you don't know the schema of your body,
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:Whether you're deadlifting or trying to be
more confident, you're in trouble because
325
:you don't know where the right things are.
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:So that's super, super helpful.
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:yeah, really helpful.
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:Thank you.
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:Tom Waldron: Was gonna
say of that as well.
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:it's almost because that was, that's
a really nice way of putting it, I
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:think like it's also fundamentally,
if you are, if you're helping
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:someone moving to move better.
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:It's just about really helping them
relate to the environment better.
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:So you're relating to the chair
better, you're relating to the
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:floor, you're relating to that
bar that you want to pick up.
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:So it's very much I've got this
physical thing, and it's made up of
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:many different types of tissues, and
the geometry changes all over the place.
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:But if I've just got a simple sense of
oh okay, this is a point, like again,
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:let's say the hip joint, this is a
point where there's lots of power.
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:And it's also a point
with lots of movement.
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:If I just have a little bit more of a
kinesthetic awareness of where that area
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:is, that, instantly just changes how
you relate to, one, that internal place,
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:being the hip joint, but also then the
external world, like just the floor, and
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:how you place your feet on the floor.
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:that for me has always been really
interesting, trying to almost teach
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:a little bit less sometimes, and
just be like, this is what your
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:brain needs to know, here's your
hip joint or here's your knee.
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:and then, does that change how
you position your body in space?
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:Sal Jefferies: Very nice.
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:Yeah.
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:a very good coaching approach, right?
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:To help the person generate
the understanding from within.
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:And when we generate learning
from within, it's implicit.
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:we own it.
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:It's, it's a great way.
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:I love that.
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:It's such a, great, definition.
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:Now we were speaking a little bit before
the show about forces and I really
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:want to get your knowledge on this.
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:forces are at play everywhere.
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:And you explained to me, there's
of course, there's gravity.
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:there is, there's all kinds
of physiological forces
363
:and we'll dig into that.
364
:but of course, Tom, there are
forces in life and there's pressure.
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:There is stresses.
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:There are social challenges.
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:There's financial challenges.
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:And if we want to be a well
functioning human being, We want
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:to relate to those forces as well,
because they're not going to go away.
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:So how do we relate to them?
371
:How do we work with them?
372
:Now, perhaps you can give me some of your
understanding about working with forces,
373
:both from the body and then how that
plays out into that person's experience.
374
:how do you work with that?
375
:Can you say some more?
376
:Tom Waldron: Yeah, I think it's
always just good to know, what are
377
:the forces in the first place, and
then from there, sometimes those
378
:answers almost become obvious.
379
:so you have four main forces of movement,
which would be gravity, the weight of your
380
:body, momentum, so how fast you're moving
your body, and then it's the reaction
381
:from the ground, so ground reaction force.
382
:So whether you're a yogi, a Pilates
teacher, gyrotonic instructor,
383
:runner, it's non negotiable.
384
:Those are the four forces that you
deal with for the rest of your life.
385
:So how well you deal with those
forces on a fundamental level dictates
386
:the experience of your whole life.
387
:So I would say, it's interesting that
you think of, makes up, a human's life.
388
:You can say many things, but I think
one of the main components is, you're
389
:always standing, or you're almost
always standing, you're sitting,
390
:you're breathing, and you're thinking.
391
:how are you managing those experiences?
392
:when you stand, can you organize yourself
in a way which is unique to your own body?
393
:It's not to say there's, here's a
cookie cutter way of one should stand.
394
:But for your own, just, physiological
makeup, can you stand in a way where
395
:you're actually managing those four
forces, in a way that feels good
396
:to you or feels comfortable to you?
397
:and then even to the sense of let's
say, more the thinking, so we know
398
:that, for example, the thoughts in your
head literally have a physiological,
399
:influence on your body, so we know
very clearly now, for example, that if
400
:you are visualizing a movement, very
similar parts of the brain become active,
401
:as if you were doing that movement.
402
:and then you even get a little bit
of a trickle down effect, where you
403
:get neurological womps going into
like certain muscle fibers, and as
404
:if you were doing that movement.
405
:So you literally have this neurological
crossover between what you do, and also
406
:how you think or how you visualize things.
407
:So I think on a level, it's been my
experience that, how you navigate
408
:through the world, so how gracefully
or non gracefully you deal with
409
:those forces, that has a huge impact
on how you deal with social aspects
410
:or, again, interpersonal things or
relationships, as well, for sure.
411
:It's been my experience
doing it definitely.
412
:And it's been, it's been fun to
also get similar sorts of feedback
413
:from clients without prompting them.
414
:where I think I was saying to you before
the podcast, let's say you help someone
415
:with their back pain, sometimes helping
someone with their back pain is things
416
:like, can we be, I'm not going to teach
them about the forces necessarily, but can
417
:we move you in a way and maybe strengthen
certain things in a way so you're just
418
:managing the forces of movement better?
419
:And then that can totally translate
into them being more socially
420
:comfortable at going to certain
social functions, for example.
421
:and I do think those
bridges are quite connected.
422
:You made
423
:Sal Jefferies: I see that too.
424
:Certainly if someone steps into my
coaching space, which is largely a
425
:conversation, a psychological, let's
say working domain, but I'll always
426
:reference the body, what's going
on with your body as you say this.
427
:So we'll have an embodied
connection around this.
428
:And what intrigues me is about movement.
429
:I've often sat with a coffee
and just watch people go by.
430
:I find it absolutely intriguing.
431
:You can read a lot without mind reading
or assumptions, but you can read a lot.
432
:There's a lot of information available
if you're quiet and you observe.
433
:And it might be, how's someone's gait?
434
:How are they moving?
435
:Where's their eye liner?
436
:Are they looking down
or are they looking up?
437
:And these things say a lot
about where that person's at.
438
:And I know for me, it's that I learned
this years ago, but Every time I'm
439
:very much buried in thinking, binge
thinking, I call it, I'll be looking down.
440
:I'll be slightly collapsing
the thoracic area.
441
:I'll be slightly loading my lower back.
442
:I just won't be walking very well.
443
:And as soon as I can feel that, that
roll across the foot and the lift in
444
:my core, an eye line forward or up,
I'm in a much more open mind space.
445
:And this really intrigues me.
446
:This, posture is power.
447
:I learned this many years ago in yoga.
448
:I learned this from being a
photographer as one of my other careers.
449
:I did how we move, how we stand is
experienced by us and the other.
450
:So if we want to be functioning well,
the best that we can be and we're
451
:not attending to these forces and to
the way we relate to these forces.
452
:Both A, that's a problem and,
b, that, that's an opportunity.
453
:problems and opportunities go together.
454
:It depends what you're doing about them,
. So if I was to come to you, Tom, I'm
455
:like, okay, all my lower back's really
tricky and I've got a lot of stresses
456
:going on right now, and I'm a bit wonky.
457
:you've already said you kind of
ask questions, which is great.
458
:You figure out what's that person
wants, but let's say I said to you,
459
:listen, I just want to feel good.
460
:I want to get rid of this achy back.
461
:I'd like to be a little
less stressed, please.
462
:That'd be great if you
know how to do that.
463
:What would you do that's in the
physical domain in your toolbox that
464
:would treat that kind of challenge?
465
:Which you would know not only treats
the quote unquote back problem and the
466
:stress level but would have a direct
effect on that person's experience
467
:Emotionally and psychologically as well
468
:Tom Waldron: Yeah, absolutely, to keep
it to lower back pain, the first thing,
469
:once they've been clinically cleared the
first thing I would be checking is, I
470
:would ask them, can you either show me, or
can you explain to me, so what movements
471
:Postures or just daily life activities
has your lower back affected basically.
472
:So what, what, can you currently
not do or not do at all?
473
:and normally they can like demonstrate
on a level like, whether it's bending
474
:forward or if it's picking up like
their three year old, And then it's
475
:just kind of like noticing that, like
just, first of all, just the external.
476
:Okay, they start, they suffer with maybe
squatting or they, they have an issue with
477
:bending to the left or whatever it is.
478
:And then when they get more into the
daily life things, like normally it's
479
:a lot of guys who may not be able to
play with a three year old for very long
480
:because they simply can't bend down and
stay in that position for a long time.
481
:So already there's an emotional
component there for sure.
482
:Whether they're aware of it or not,
that's like really, really powerful.
483
:So my first point of call is,
let's find a way for you to do
484
:those movements where either we're
minimizing the level of discomfort,
485
:Or hopefully even quite initially,
there's not any discomfort there.
486
:and the reason why we're doing that from
my perspective, one is it's to keep that
487
:person having their autonomy so they can
actually still live the life they wanna
488
:live and they're not feeling like they're
broken or they constantly do things.
489
:and it's also, exposing the body to
similar movements that they currently
490
:can't do for whatever reason.
491
:but finding a way to work around
it and that normally calms down.
492
:if they have any stress around
it, that normally calms down
493
:their stress levels too.
494
:So if they can't bend forward and play
with their toddler just yet, maybe
495
:they can bend down 75 percent of the
way and if we just play with where
496
:the legs are positioned, maybe the
leg is going to be a bit more further
497
:forward than it originally was, so
you've got to bend your spine forward
498
:as far, then they can play with their
kid for a bit longer, for example.
499
:so rather than trying to take away
movements or take away exercises, Just
500
:reverse engineer it and modify it to
the point where they can manage it.
501
:And then over time, it's building
them back up again so that they can
502
:actually manage those positions.
503
:So I guess just to summarize, first
thing is, what can you not do?
504
:okay, cool, let's now modify that so
you can do it to a certain degree.
505
:and then around that, looking at
the movements that they showed,
506
:okay, let's now increase your
tolerance in those positions.
507
:So as you were saying, if it is, let's
say, they can't bend their spine forward
508
:because that starts to hurt, that
could be because they simply aren't
509
:strong enough in spinal flexion for the
loads they're currently dealing with.
510
:So let's do some spinal flexion, but
let's just maybe do it in a different
511
:way, until they can do it in the
way they couldn't do it before.
512
:Does that make
513
:Sal Jefferies: It makes a lot of sense.
514
:It's really really nice, isn't it?
515
:because there's a tendency to
think if I have an injury or have
516
:a pain, I won't go there You know,
I won't bend over or I won't do the
517
:movement that causes me discomfort.
518
:And yet what you're suggesting there
is let's understand that better.
519
:Let's have a different
relationship to that.
520
:Let's perhaps get an experience
of that in a slightly different
521
:version or different, an amount.
522
:And what I hear there is you're actually
giving someone back freedom, physical
523
:freedom to move or maybe to play with a
kid or whatever it is, but you're giving
524
:that person back autonomy as opposed
to, a disability, which obviously it's a
525
:strong word and we care for how we use it.
526
:But if you're unable to do
something, you start to become.
527
:Moving towards disability and
it's something which intrigues me.
528
:as someone of some mature years now,
as I look to the future and you look
529
:to the stats like, mm, muscle loss, 3
percent per year, muscle power loss,
530
:3 percent and you look at the stats
generally and think, okay, if I don't
531
:stay active and I am super active and
I preach this, I'm like, if you're
532
:40 plus, you need to be training.
533
:And I've had people say
to me, I'm not an athlete.
534
:I'm like, yeah, but you need to
be because life demands us to be
535
:an athlete because we have chairs.
536
:If we're knowledge workers, we sit
at chairs, we sit at computers and we
537
:might drive or take a bus or whatever.
538
:We are so damn sedentary now.
539
:Just lifestyle is so sedentary
that if we don't do something to
540
:arrest that sedentary dynamic,
then we're going to have problems.
541
:And of course, that's
something which I do myself.
542
:And I also aim to get
clients to do more and more.
543
:As we're getting towards a more mature
year, there used to be the sentiment that
544
:you should slow it down, didn't there,
just take it easy, I remember one of
545
:my clients, he was a ex kickboxer and
then he came to my yoga practice and
546
:it's funny because I went from yoga and
I've got into boxing now, I've gone the
547
:other way, I've gone the extreme stuff.
548
:But there is a prevailing world view,
certainly in this, in our country or in
549
:the West, that as we age, we have this
certain expectation of less mobility,
550
:less strength, probably diminished
health, and all these qualities.
551
:Now, while it's true to some degree
that the body will diminish slowly
552
:over time if it's kept well, I'm really
interested in challenging this orthodoxy.
553
:about saying to people, no,
you can relearn a movement
554
:pattern at 45 years old.
555
:You can become a strong
woman or strong man at 57.
556
:It's all there.
557
:But how would you treat that?
558
:Let's say I come to you, Tom, and I'm
like, yes, and I've seen your stuff.
559
:You sound so cool.
560
:I'm ready.
561
:I'm 51 or 52 now.
562
:I'm 52.
563
:I want to be an athlete.
564
:Help me.
565
:I saw Sal.
566
:He said, go to see you.
567
:What would you do?
568
:How would you help a person
who's roughly midlife saying.
569
:Let's get you moving well.
570
:So you're functioning well
physiologically, you'll function
571
:well in your movement and you'll
function well in your health.
572
:What would you do?
573
:I know I've thrown actually a massive
challenge at you, but I'm really
574
:intrigued to how you might take that
575
:on.
576
:Tom Waldron: Well, it's interesting, so I,
I would say prob probably temperamentally,
577
:I'm a relatively optimistic person.
578
:However, I do believe that negative
emotion can be much more powerful
579
:if used in a certain context.
580
:In, in this sort of situation.
581
:So for example, we know that if you
put a mouse on a little treadmill and
582
:you have the smell of cheese at the end
of the treadmill, the mice is, or the
583
:mouse is going to be motivated to run
on the treadmill faster to get the food.
584
:Basically.
585
:However, if you put the, the smell of
a cat behind them, they run much faster
586
:than if they were to get the cheese
because it's more the idea of, I'd rather
587
:they're more motivated to not get eaten.
588
:So even though, it is very motivational
to have, obviously, goals, end state
589
:goals, process goals, like you know where
you want to be going, so I think mapping
590
:out what you want is important, but I
actually think, to be real, sometimes
591
:it's really good to just spend an hour
fully articulating, what would be like
592
:your own version of hell in five years.
593
:And actually, no, so
what would it be like?
594
:So I would look like this, or I'd
feel this way, or this would happen.
595
:and you go through that
as a bit of a process.
596
:if the next five years went
terribly, what would that look like?
597
:And then that gives you the blueprint
of I want to go in the opposite
598
:direction of that, basically.
599
:And I think that's when you
can sometimes motivate people.
600
:It's if you want to have a body That
wears down really fast, you're going
601
:to get really ill, you always feel like
crap, you can't do anything, and actually
602
:you're kind of like a bit of a bummer to
hang out with because you don't really
603
:want to do anything and you can't anyway.
604
:And I just think sometimes articulating
the reality of that, that can motivate
605
:someone to be like, you know what, okay,
that's, so what do I do to avoid that?
606
:And it's okay, walking's really
good, strength training's really
607
:good, flexibility, maybe, whatever,
just basically, as long as you do
608
:strength training, actually you're
going to get more flexible anyway.
609
:even though it starts negative, that
kind of gets the fire going, and I also
610
:think, it's also, like you were saying,
that the preconceived ideas that you're
611
:meant to be feeling this way at this
age, or you're meant to be looking this
612
:way at this age, or, you shouldn't be
doing that at this time in your life or
613
:whatever, I think, one of the ways you
can minimize those negative beliefs, which
614
:aren't even accurate in the first place,
Is people believe they have to like,
615
:work out seven times a week and they've
gotta do like a 90 minute session and
616
:they've gotta do this, this, and that.
617
:When in reality for, if someone does
like a workout session three times
618
:a week for 45 minutes and they're
doing like, let's say a strength
619
:program, the benefits are non-linear.
620
:they're gonna keep getting better
and better and better as long as the
621
:program is progressing with them.
622
:And it doesn't have to be like these,
seven hours a week slog basically.
623
:So I think it's also realizing the
bar can be set quite low for success.
624
:But also maybe know where you could go if
you never even started in the first place.
625
:Does that make sense?
626
:Sal Jefferies: does.
627
:I love that.
628
:I really love that.
629
:Such a, I'm quite happy at staring into
the abyss sometimes to motivate me.
630
:And as we certainly I know from
brain science that we are, the
631
:brain is a prediction system.
632
:Andy Clark, Professor Andy Clark talks
about this, the predictive brain,
633
:that the brain is always predicting.
634
:And the first thing it's always
looking for, or brain slash
635
:nervous system, is threat.
636
:We are a threat detection system first
and foremost, and when the threat's out of
637
:the way then we can be socially engaged.
638
:What we call dorsal vagal on
the, in the nervous system.
639
:There are two types.
640
:So I come across away from meta patterns.
641
:They're called and toward meta patterns.
642
:So overarching thinking
styles for peoples.
643
:I think both are really powerful.
644
:I think let's look how
bad it could really be.
645
:Look at this.
646
:Look, actually, if you don't
do something, this is where
647
:your life is going to end up.
648
:And that's not a good look.
649
:And this is where it could be.
650
:And then you got that.
651
:And what I'm feeling
there's tension, right?
652
:That that creates tension.
653
:And you spoke about tensional forces
in the body and I'm interested
654
:in that tensional forces in,
motivation or let's say compulsion.
655
:around if you can notice these two things
that might create the right kind of
656
:tension, but it's, yeah, I love that.
657
:I would be listening to you half
day, but like, yeah, totally.
658
:I know I don't want to be in five
years, and I have an autoimmune
659
:condition, so I know what it's like
to be down and out, to be broken by
660
:them, and I, thankfully, I'm in pretty
good shape, and I have to be careful.
661
:There are certain things I need to do
and not do, but I know having health
662
:taken away from you is Suffering.
663
:Pure suffering.
664
:And I don't wish it on anyone, and I
certainly don't want it for myself.
665
:But that's why I do what I do.
666
:It's one of the big motivations, because
I know what suffering feels like.
667
:And I don't want that.
668
:Because people say to me, Tom, they're
like, Wow, you're so motivated.
669
:You train every day, you do this.
670
:I'm like, yeah, but I see it as play.
671
:And I also see it as privilege,
because I know when I haven't
672
:been able to even stand up.
673
:I can't even stand up.
674
:So when I can stand up, I'm never not
grateful for that, which I don't know, if
675
:someone's had a health issue, maybe they
relate to that, but maybe if you haven't,
676
:it could be more, more challenging.
677
:Yeah,
678
:Tom Waldron: think it's a, I really
believe it's a privilege to be able to
679
:have your autonomy, like truly, my first
ever client, ever, ever, ever, ever, was
680
:a 13 year old boy, and I'm still, friends
with him now, he's probably 27 now or
681
:something, but anyway, he had cerebral
palsy, he was born with cerebral palsy,
682
:and so he couldn't walk, and I was working
with him because he was having some
683
:surgeries at the time, and my job, I mean
I barely knew anything at this point,
684
:but my job was to come in for two hours
a day, and, And just do some stretches
685
:and it was really, really positive.
686
:But I remember, I was probably like
18 at the time, I was really young.
687
:And I remember just being in bed one
night, it was probably quite early on
688
:when I was working with this, young guy.
689
:And I remember just being like, at any
point, if I want to go to the toilet,
690
:I can just, get up and go to the loo.
691
:Or like glass of water, man,
I really just spent like a few
692
:minutes in like darkness, like in my
bedroom, just thinking about this.
693
:And then, because it was, the first
time in my life I'd been around someone.
694
:who was disabled, physically
disabled, basically.
695
:And it was really, it was almost like
a light bulb moment went off, where I
696
:was just like, it is a genuine privilege
to be able to just even like meme
697
:gesture with my hand as I'm talking.
698
:And I think sometimes you never have
those moments where you just realise,
699
:Oh, being alive is really weird.
700
:Like you almost catch yourself, because
you get busy in your day, and you're
701
:like, I don't do taxes, whatever,
like you're late for something.
702
:You just get sucked into just
like the, for lack of a better
703
:word, I guess the rat race.
704
:And then you have those
moments where you're like, it's
705
:really weird that I'm alive.
706
:and it's and this is gonna, and
it's 80 years of, it's just like,
707
:as soon as I have those moments
I just get quite introspective.
708
:But I just think also it's really lucky
to, one, be alive, but also you're
709
:alive with a body that actually is
able to respond to like, your thinking.
710
:And just, I sometimes have these funny
debates with friends who, I might
711
:say that to them and they're just
like, What are you on about, mate?
712
:Of course you can move.
713
:they think it's ridiculous that
I'm just grateful on that level
714
:that you're able to move your body.
715
:But I think maybe if you've been
around that a little bit, you've
716
:been around people that don't have
that and they weren't even born with
717
:that opportunity in the first place.
718
:It's just, it's almost and I
think as well, talking to older
719
:men, guys in their 70s and 80s.
720
:who are still really fit and
active, but they can sometimes
721
:say still bloody, it's harder now.
722
:And I just think it's good
to keep it if you've got it,
723
:Sal Jefferies: yeah, absolutely.
724
:a phrase came to my
mind a little while ago.
725
:it's a bit of the Cartesian debate,
but we don't live in a body.
726
:We live through a body.
727
:So that means if your whole experience
of life is mediated through your
728
:senses, through your tissues, through
your fascia, up through the nervous
729
:system, into the brain, into the, to
the idea of like, how am I doing today?
730
:How am I feeling?
731
:How am I moving?
732
:How am I working?
733
:Then I think we are missing the absolute
building blocks of the constituent of
734
:like how our experience actually is.
735
:So we could go deep and philosophical,
which is where I like to hang out, but
736
:I'm going to bring it back on point
because so for our listeners, we've really
737
:checked in with some important stuff.
738
:Understanding forces, understanding
tension, understanding that
739
:relationship between your body and
really knowing where things are.
740
:Sounds, that's just such
fundamental, and clear advice.
741
:It's brilliant, Tom.
742
:It's really brilliant.
743
:I would like to capture this into Some
of the perhaps the pillars or the key
744
:things you might say, here's what I would
impart if you want to function well, what
745
:might those pillars or guidance points be?
746
:Tom Waldron: I would say just
know how the body functions.
747
:so if you want to know okay, like
how do I, how do I function better?
748
:You will, I think the, thing before that
is what is the function of this thing?
749
:So if that makes any sense, so for
example, bring it back to practical again.
750
:So what's the function of
your foot for it, let's say.
751
:So your foot, to keep it simple, it
can be a very foundational stable
752
:surface to help balance the whole body.
753
:and then it can also be a narrow, rigid
lever that can propel you through space.
754
:So on a level, and there's obviously many
functions like balance, proprioception,
755
:but just on that basic mechanical
level, the function of the foot is
756
:to give you a foundational surface,
and then it's to give you a much less
757
:foundational surface in a few milliseconds
to push you away from the floor.
758
:So if you want to have a functional foot,
make sure it can just do those two things.
759
:And then to work it back a bit further,
so how does it do those two things?
760
:you need to have a
pronated foot sometimes.
761
:And then you need to have a supinated
foot, so just then do exercises that
762
:complement the different movements that
create pronation and create supination.
763
:And if you do that, you'll have a
functional For example, so I think it's
764
:like just knowing what the function
of something is, you can already then
765
:streamline, Oh, okay, that's, then that's
how I'm functional and I can do that.
766
:And then obviously you can be more
specific, I think there's, in my mind,
767
:the function has two definitions.
768
:You have, the function of the body.
769
:So what's the function of this organ,
like the spine, the rib cage, whatever.
770
:And then can I base some of my exercises
around complementing those functions.
771
:But then also you have personal functions.
772
:for example, going back to the guy
earlier on who wants to play with
773
:his kid and he wants to bend down.
774
:That, that's a function.
775
:So it's also then, and that might be then
more global, so then how do I get the
776
:hips to move better, how do I get the
spine to move better, to, to accommodate
777
:that function that person wants in their
personal life with their kid, for example.
778
:So for me, it's always been that,
it just, it just goes back to, going
779
:much more global now, like what's
the function of the human body.
780
:one thing we're really, really
good at is walking, we're the
781
:best walkers on the planet.
782
:So why not just learn a little
bit about what creates walking?
783
:Or like another one, if you wanna have
a better shoulder, if you want your
784
:shoulder to feel just pain-free, stronger,
more flexible, better positioned.
785
:why do you have a shoulder?
786
:Your shoulder is basically a force
buffer between your spine and your hand.
787
:So you can throw balls so you can,
or throw rocks or throw spears.
788
:So where the best throwers on the planet?
789
:So we know, for example, that
by the time you get to four.
790
:A four year old homosapien,
human, is already a better thrower
791
:than a fully grown chimpanzee.
792
:So we're really designed
for throwing stuff.
793
:So if that's like your evolution heritage,
walking, throwing, a bit of swimming,
794
:we're aquatic as well, oddly enough, then
why not just do things on a regular basis
795
:that you were designed to do anyway?
796
:And that will probably go a long
way to improving your function.
797
:Sal Jefferies: Yeah.
798
:Really
799
:Tom Waldron: Am I answering the
800
:question?
801
:Sal Jefferies: Yeah, it does.
802
:Yeah.
803
:I'm just, my mind's percolating that,
that principle and, and I trust,
804
:those listening as well are doing
the same, but yeah, just in some
805
:ways it's super practical, isn't it?
806
:It's what is the function of my foot?
807
:it's what does it actually do?
808
:And, and if you've got back pain, is that
because you walk in a dysfunctional way?
809
:And it could be for some people.
810
:If, so we changed the
function of the foot.
811
:Yeah.
812
:and the global idea of, I want to
travel whilst walking, then we might
813
:then release up the chain of events.
814
:actually my position of my hips is
better now because my foot's better
815
:and, and suddenly my lower back pain
is gone, which then also means that I'm
816
:probably not miserable and it might not
interrupt my sleep and so on and so forth.
817
:So yeah, they are called fractals.
818
:I call them fractals.
819
:You know what fractals
repeating patterns in nature.
820
:We see them in the bronchiality of the
lungs, we see them in the leaves and
821
:the trees, but I see like behavioral
fractals in people as well, like
822
:the small pattern repeats into the
bigger, and whether that's in the
823
:physical domain or psychological, but
the pattern repeats, whether that's
824
:imbalance or incorrect tension or
misunderstanding, or even disconnection
825
:from the body, which I think is the
biggest thing I see for some people,
826
:that the thinking self And the somatic
self, the body self are out of out.
827
:They're outta whack,
they're outta harmony.
828
:And and I love what you said there right
at the early part of the show about get
829
:someone to know where their hip bones
actually insert and they're gonna hinge
830
:well, and of course I'm like, yeah,
that's a, that makes so much sense.
831
:And, and I'm thinking, hmm, when
I was deadlifting the other day
832
:was I paying attention to my hip?
833
:So I'm redoing that, that deadlifts
are on my, schedule tomorrow.
834
:So I should be paying attention
to the hip joint movement.
835
:Tom Waldron: And it also, for
me, it becomes really fun.
836
:I, like you, I really love anatomy.
837
:I, I just really enjoy
the study of anatomy.
838
:Not, not because I like to
remember abstract names of things.
839
:It's because, I just feel like when I'm
learning anatomy, I'm learning about,
840
:oh, this is, I've learned about myself.
841
:oh, this is actually how I evolved.
842
:That's why the hip bones over there.
843
:That's why the sit bones over there.
844
:Oh, okay.
845
:And I just find, that gives me a
really deep appreciation of movement.
846
:And, but then bringing it back
to the clients, it doesn't mean
847
:that they've got to bloody know
every single anatomy detail.
848
:But even, going back to the throwing idea,
I get my clients sometimes who I teach
849
:online, I get them to get a ball, and
we're just practicing throwing the ball.
850
:And we make it fun, you've got to
visualize your partner, and you're
851
:trying to throw the ball at them, or,
just like a bullseye a hundred meters
852
:away, and, but just that act of them
throwing is so good for their shoulder.
853
:And as you say, if suddenly they're,
like, if they notice in their own body,
854
:which is always the more powerful teaching
moment is if they notice, they're like,
855
:you know what, my shoulder actually
doesn't feel like it's moving so well
856
:on the right side than the left side.
857
:It might be something to do, if
the head's really far forward,
858
:that restricts shoulder movement.
859
:And so then you can be like, you know
what, why don't you just try this
860
:with your head, and then see if that
improves how your shoulder moves.
861
:And then suddenly you've
indirectly taught someone how
862
:the body's inherently connected.
863
:and it's not to say that everyone should
have the same posture, or everyone
864
:should look the same, not at all.
865
:But, going back to almost this idea
of the tension of the neck, and how
866
:the tension of the neck influences
the tension of the shoulder, you can
867
:play with that relationship until
someone feels like they're in their
868
:most optimal organisational alignment.
869
:Sal Jefferies: Beautiful,
absolutely beautiful.
870
:I'm going to summarize with, I had
an old Tai Chi master friend and they
871
:used to, say about wasted energy.
872
:So from the Eastern arts, and they
would look at a body composition and
873
:position, and they might get someone to
move their upper shoulders a little bit,
874
:move their pelvis, split their feet.
875
:And they would talk about how
much energy is either wasted or
876
:saved based on optimal alignment.
877
:And as you rightly say, it's not,
you should look like this picture.
878
:You should stand like this, but it should
be, do you feel balanced perhaps in the
879
:foot joints, the pelvis and the lower
back, and all these kinds of positions.
880
:And it's amazing because
energy is everything.
881
:Metabolic energy, thinking energy,
oxygen, all energy is life.
882
:It's basic quantum physics,
and we mostly know this.
883
:And when anyone feels tired,
and I see this a lot, someone's
884
:tired, exhausted, maybe burnt out.
885
:You are not utilizing your energy
very well, and I think it's such
886
:an interesting thing to go to
the physical energy as well.
887
:Like, how do you organize your body, as
you've already beautifully alluded to?
888
:And is that disorganized?
889
:Are you essentially hemorrhaging energy
through tight shoulders, traps that
890
:are overfiring, whatever that might be?
891
:And does that bleed out
into the rest of your life?
892
:Energy drains, it's called in S& C.
893
:And I think it's such an important
thing that a lot of people aren't
894
:looking at, and It is wasted energy.
895
:I would like to get your last thoughts on
energy management because it's something
896
:I talk about a lot with my people.
897
:Rather than time management, energy
management, like going with biorhythms,
898
:going with the natural sense.
899
:How might you work with that?
900
:Tom Waldron: Yeah, I'm just thinking
energy because it's obviously a
901
:big thing, like the first thing
that comes to my head is sleep.
902
:I think that's probably because
it's, I'm thinking about my
903
:own energy management probably.
904
:I just noticed that if I'm underslept,
it just throws everything out.
905
:which I find interesting.
906
:So I think, in terms of how well could
people energy manage, I'll just think
907
:about that for a minute, I think, I
suppose my main domain, which I do
908
:that in, would be in, in movement
itself, so like you say, like, how can
909
:we better organise the ribs over the
pelvis, and how they rotate with each
910
:other in walking, and again, another
way of saying energy management,
911
:you could say is energy leakage, uh,
which is more of a biomechanical term,
912
:if, if you're moving too much in the
coronal plane, Then you're wasting a
913
:bit of energy in the coronal plane.
914
:So can we can we minimize that?
915
:So we, as you were saying, optimizing
their energy flow, and I think you
916
:know, I work, I've not seen her
actually yet in a few months, but I'm
917
:going to work with her again soon.
918
:I have an energy coach.
919
:she doesn't really call herself
an energy coach, but I can, I just
920
:know the way I can explain it.
921
:So I just call her an energy coach.
922
:But, that's very much
working with energy, really.
923
:So we're working with my own energy.
924
:if there's any kind of energetic, like
areas that aren't letting go, which might
925
:manifest in like an image in my head or
like an emotion or anything like that.
926
:and a lot of that, to be
honest, is, is presence work.
927
:a lot of that I've learned from like
Eckhart Tolle, which I'm a big fan of.
928
:and so in terms of energy management,
sometimes it's just even noticing
929
:where you might have mismanagement.
930
:And even just that noticing, I, this
is, I'm out of my area of expertise
931
:now, but from what I've learned from
my teachers is where even just by
932
:noticing that energy, it can already
start to diminish if it's not managed
933
:well, and then you can start to manage
it better just by being aware of it.
934
:But I think on a practical level, for
me, it's a sleep these days, like making
935
:sure that you have a relatively dark
room, actually getting eight hours,
936
:rather than six and a half or five hours.
937
:because we know as well, like even
with sleep, there's a fair bit of
938
:research now correlating lack of
sleep to increase an injury risk.
939
:and so that's a huge thing as well
with, how, again, how you move
940
:your body and how you manage it.
941
:Yeah.
942
:Sal Jefferies: because it's a big topic.
943
:But yes, it's, but I
think the basics remain.
944
:You don't have to be a specialist
in sleep to know what good sleep
945
:feels like and what disruptive
sleep feels like and its effects.
946
:So yes, it just goes to reminding
that if you get the basics right,
947
:the fundamentals You build your base,
most things above it don't fall down.
948
:If you've got a terribly bad base like
physiologically, or sleep, or your
949
:psychological base is, is all all over the
place, everything above it can crumble.
950
:or often I talk about a core 'cause
I'm look at that if I'm an Eastern
951
:principle from a center alk, if
your core is robust and strong.
952
:Everything that anchors and gravitates
towards it will feel strong.
953
:Whereas if you cause weak, whether that's
physical, whether or mental or emotional,
954
:then you're going to have problems.
955
:And, and I don't know many
people that like problems.
956
:So, we're always trying to
overcome problems, right?
957
:Tom Waldron: It's so funny, isn't it,
because sometimes, I've sometimes been
958
:guilty of like calling these things woo
woo, and I do it with a bit of tongue
959
:in cheek, I don't really mean it.
960
:But it's funny because the more, I think
the more you learn about, again, the
961
:body, and it's funny how, these things,
transcend culture, we know, for example,
962
:that your postural system is governed
by your serotonergic system, and you can
963
:trace that system, a third of a billion
years back in the past, because you
964
:can look at certain animals and you can
see how that same, neurophysiological
965
:relationship governs their posture and
also governs the level of serotonin.
966
:And so these systems have, been
in place, they're older than
967
:trees, they've been in place for a
really, really, really long time.
968
:And I think, so it's it's just
fun to learn these things, and
969
:it's almost like you're learning
certain principles as well.
970
:and then being able to practically
implement that in a S& C class,
971
:or if it's a Pilates class, or
whatever it is, an education forum.
972
:I think it's just, on many
different levels, it's quite
973
:a rewarding thing to learn.
974
:Sal Jefferies: Yeah, absolutely.
975
:Tom, I am delighted that
we got to speak today.
976
:I'm better informed already.
977
:I'm like, I learn, I'm so privileged that
I get to speak wonderful people like you.
978
:And I always learn something,
which is why I do this.
979
:And I trust my dear listeners that
you have learned not just some thing,
980
:but many things around forces, around
the body, around perhaps just thinking
981
:around the impact of the body and the
mind and how it all comes together.
982
:So Tom, If you haven't, do what I do
with podcasts, hit replay, write notes.
983
:Yeah, write notes, grab what
you need to know from this.
984
:and as always you can hit me on
the socials, let me know what you
985
:thought, if you've got questions
for myself or for Tom, do connect.
986
:So there'll be links on the show notes
and on socials this is on, so do connect.
987
:So Tom, thank you for your time, dear
listener, thank you for your time.
988
:Until the next one, take care.
